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Author Topic: 6D Autofocus not impressive  (Read 75677 times)

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #225 on: June 19, 2013, 08:51:40 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.


I thought about it and you're wrong: the d600 costs nearly €200 less than the 6d, and it has been this way from the start. Canon probably figures that €200 will make nobody jump ship.

 The reason why Canon did the 6d as it is was ...
* save research time after the Nikon d600 release, i.e. recycle as much as they had (6d = 6ßd+5d2+5d3),
* to sidestep Nikon d600 (gps, wifi, low-light af but less af points) while at the same time
* protecting the 5d3 sales (af precision, af spread, fps, ...) and most of all to
* generate profits: I'm sure the 6d is cheap to produce.

Disclaimer: The 6d is a good camera, esp. over the 5d2 (see my positive fact list: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0) but if you want to shoot af shallow dof in non-center you might be less than happy if you want to stay with Canon but not pay €3000 for a camera body that probably also won't last as long as the successor due to the legacy sensor tech.


Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #225 on: June 19, 2013, 08:51:40 PM »

wilddreamer

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #226 on: June 19, 2013, 10:16:43 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.


I thought about it and you're wrong: the d600 costs nearly €200 less than the 6d, and it has been this way from the start. Canon probably figures that €200 will make nobody jump ship.

 The reason why Canon did the 6d as it is was ...
* save research time after the Nikon d600 release, i.e. recycle as much as they had (6d = 6ßd+5d2+5d3),
* to sidestep Nikon d600 (gps, wifi, low-light af but less af points) while at the same time
* protecting the 5d3 sales (af precision, af spread, fps, ...) and most of all to
* generate profits: I'm sure the 6d is cheap to produce.

Disclaimer: The 6d is a good camera, esp. over the 5d2 (see my positive fact list: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0) but if you want to shoot af shallow dof in non-center you might be less than happy if you want to stay with Canon but not pay €3000 for a camera body that probably also won't last as long as the successor due to the legacy sensor tech.


well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #227 on: June 20, 2013, 12:02:38 AM »
J.R., it could very well be that there is an AFMA or focus shift phenomenon going on with your 50mm on the 6D.  It just sounds to me like you're complaining about not getting sharp focus, rather than the side points not achieving focus lock.  I had thought you meant those points refused to ever focus at all in your low light situation.  And are these children on the sofa, part of a paying gig, or are they just casual shots of your own kids?  If they're just casual shots, then is it really such a big issue? 

I mean, let's face it, there are types of focus shift even when you focus a fast lens manually, let alone with autofocus. 

As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.

It just seems like your point in this thread, is to complain about the 6D.  You admit you bought it as your backup camera.  Perhaps you should sell it, and let someone have it who likes it more...and just buy another used or new 5D3?  With the amount of time you've spent complaining about the 6D in this thread, you could have gotten some more photo jobs to pay for the extra 5D3, since you love it so much.  No offense of course, I'm here to help :-D :P... 

It seems to me, that the value of used 5D3's has gone up, since ML have hacked it for RAW video.  So that's a good thing for 5D3 owners.

I frankly detest the 5D3, and I currently have no need to do serious video.  The next Canon body I buy, will likely be the replacement for the 1DX.  Because the 1DX is almost right...

I use FoCal for AFMA so that is not really the issue. There is no focus shift because it should show up on the 5D3 as well - only that it doesn't. The sensitivity of the outer focus points is insufficient indoors and that is the point I was making. This basically results in using the center point only in low light and hence the darned focus - recompose - shoot.

Not getting sharp shots is an issue even if they are casual shots. Do you not want the best IQ if you are taking pics of your kids? :o

I might appear to be complaining about the 6D but that's really not the case. The thread is on the issue of the AF of the 6D and not the IQ of the 6D. I'm just saying the way it is. Maybe you don't want better AF but not everyone has the same expectations / usage.

I wish I was getting paid for my photos. I do this as a hobby and have no time to turn it into a career. I do agree with your advice and intend to sell the 6D sometime next year and get a 1DX. Thanks!
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x-vision

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #228 on: June 20, 2013, 02:51:28 AM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3. It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D ...

Hmm. Just consider the lower x-sync and max-shutter speeds on the 6D vs the 5DIII.
These do not lower cost in any way, as they are implemented in firmware.
 
Also consider the right-hand-only button placement on the back of the 6D.
Look for yourself [here]. The back of the camera is a self-contained, independent module.
Any technical person will tell you that the cost of this module will not be any different if it had
buttons on the left-hand side as well - like on the 50D, 7D, 5DIII, or the 1DX, for example.

Canon did not implement these particular 'features' to ensure that the 6D is cheaper than the D600.
You can be sure about that.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 03:57:40 AM by x-vision »

Marsu42

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #229 on: June 20, 2013, 07:02:14 AM »
Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.


I know :-> - but I couldn't help but to make the point that Canon's strategy, i.e. a Japanese company selling in *all* countries, cannot be judged by looking at US-$ prices alone. If someone says the d6 will *always* be less  expensive than d600 which is an absolute theory it can be contradicted by one different example from another large market, even if the US might be the biggest (as things should be :-)).

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 07:13:40 AM by Marsu42 »

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #230 on: June 20, 2013, 08:33:04 AM »

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.


Well there are some Indians as well who don't pay in US$. We have to pay in Indian Rupees.  :)

FWIW, the situation is much the same in India with the D600 is priced at INR 120,120 while the 6D is priced at INR 124,995. Translating into US$, a price difference of approximately US$ 82.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #231 on: June 20, 2013, 02:27:06 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.


I thought about it and you're wrong: the d600 costs nearly €200 less than the 6d, and it has been this way from the start. Canon probably figures that €200 will make nobody jump ship.

 The reason why Canon did the 6d as it is was ...
* save research time after the Nikon d600 release, i.e. recycle as much as they had (6d = 6ßd+5d2+5d3),
* to sidestep Nikon d600 (gps, wifi, low-light af but less af points) while at the same time
* protecting the 5d3 sales (af precision, af spread, fps, ...) and most of all to
* generate profits: I'm sure the 6d is cheap to produce.

Disclaimer: The 6d is a good camera, esp. over the 5d2 (see my positive fact list: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0) but if you want to shoot af shallow dof in non-center you might be less than happy if you want to stay with Canon but not pay €3000 for a camera body that probably also won't last as long as the successor due to the legacy sensor tech.


Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.


Thank you Dustin, as always you make a great point!

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #231 on: June 20, 2013, 02:27:06 PM »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #232 on: June 20, 2013, 02:27:42 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.


I thought about it and you're wrong: the d600 costs nearly €200 less than the 6d, and it has been this way from the start. Canon probably figures that €200 will make nobody jump ship.

 The reason why Canon did the 6d as it is was ...
* save research time after the Nikon d600 release, i.e. recycle as much as they had (6d = 6ßd+5d2+5d3),
* to sidestep Nikon d600 (gps, wifi, low-light af but less af points) while at the same time
* protecting the 5d3 sales (af precision, af spread, fps, ...) and most of all to
* generate profits: I'm sure the 6d is cheap to produce.

Disclaimer: The 6d is a good camera, esp. over the 5d2 (see my positive fact list: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0) but if you want to shoot af shallow dof in non-center you might be less than happy if you want to stay with Canon but not pay €3000 for a camera body that probably also won't last as long as the successor due to the legacy sensor tech.


well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


+1

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #233 on: June 20, 2013, 02:30:46 PM »
J.R., it could very well be that there is an AFMA or focus shift phenomenon going on with your 50mm on the 6D.  It just sounds to me like you're complaining about not getting sharp focus, rather than the side points not achieving focus lock.  I had thought you meant those points refused to ever focus at all in your low light situation.  And are these children on the sofa, part of a paying gig, or are they just casual shots of your own kids?  If they're just casual shots, then is it really such a big issue? 

I mean, let's face it, there are types of focus shift even when you focus a fast lens manually, let alone with autofocus. 

As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3.  It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D (because Canon's frontend cost on the 6D is lower than the Nikon's for the D600).  I thought this was common knowledge?  The 6D's feature set has nothing at all to do with the 5D3...think about it.

It just seems like your point in this thread, is to complain about the 6D.  You admit you bought it as your backup camera.  Perhaps you should sell it, and let someone have it who likes it more...and just buy another used or new 5D3?  With the amount of time you've spent complaining about the 6D in this thread, you could have gotten some more photo jobs to pay for the extra 5D3, since you love it so much.  No offense of course, I'm here to help :-D :P... 

It seems to me, that the value of used 5D3's has gone up, since ML have hacked it for RAW video.  So that's a good thing for 5D3 owners.

I frankly detest the 5D3, and I currently have no need to do serious video.  The next Canon body I buy, will likely be the replacement for the 1DX.  Because the 1DX is almost right...

I use FoCal for AFMA so that is not really the issue. There is no focus shift because it should show up on the 5D3 as well - only that it doesn't. The sensitivity of the outer focus points is insufficient indoors and that is the point I was making. This basically results in using the center point only in low light and hence the darned focus - recompose - shoot.

Not getting sharp shots is an issue even if they are casual shots. Do you not want the best IQ if you are taking pics of your kids? :o

I might appear to be complaining about the 6D but that's really not the case. The thread is on the issue of the AF of the 6D and not the IQ of the 6D. I'm just saying the way it is. Maybe you don't want better AF but not everyone has the same expectations / usage.

I wish I was getting paid for my photos. I do this as a hobby and have no time to turn it into a career. I do agree with your advice and intend to sell the 6D sometime next year and get a 1DX. Thanks!

You're welcome.  As I have so far not had the AF issue you have had, I will attempt to cause it when I get a chance, and see what happens.  AFMA can be different from one camera to the next, and there is focus shift with fast lenses.  I'm not convinced your comparison has ruled these out as a factor.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2013, 02:36:09 PM by CarlTN »

CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #234 on: June 20, 2013, 02:35:17 PM »
As for complaining that Canon "hobbled the 6D"...if they did, it was not for fear of impacting sales of the 5D3. It was to ensure that the Nikon D600 could never be offered at a lower street price than the 6D ...

Hmm. Just consider the lower x-sync and max-shutter speeds on the 6D vs the 5DIII.
These do not lower cost in any way, as they are implemented in firmware.
 
Also consider the right-hand-only button placement on the back of the 6D.
Look for yourself [here]. The back of the camera is a self-contained, independent module.
Any technical person will tell you that the cost of this module will not be any different if it had
buttons on the left-hand side as well - like on the 50D, 7D, 5DIII, or the 1DX, for example.

Canon did not implement these particular 'features' to ensure that the 6D is cheaper than the D600.
You can be sure about that.


When did I say that?  Don't put words in my mouth.  I was referring to the other features of the D600, such as the higher pixel density, the much more AF points in its array, the slightly higher fps, etc.  Sorry if I'm not enough of a technical person for you, but apparently you're not technical enough either, because you skipped right over the obvious features I just now mentioned.  Who cares how many buttons are on the camera, or where they're located?  Buttons don't cost very much.  So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #235 on: June 20, 2013, 02:39:21 PM »
Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.


I know :-> - but I couldn't help but to make the point that Canon's strategy, i.e. a Japanese company selling in *all* countries, cannot be judged by looking at US-$ prices alone. If someone says the d6 will *always* be less  expensive than d600 which is an absolute theory it can be contradicted by one different example from another large market, even if the US might be the biggest (as things should be :-)).

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.


The USA is the largest DSLR camera market in the world, period.  Europe is not 1 country, and thus their prices vary.  You're welcome to attempt to poke holes in my little theory, but I still stand by it.  How many Canon DSLR's are sold in both UK and Australia?  Not as many as in the USA, by a mile.  Enough said.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #236 on: June 20, 2013, 02:57:43 PM »
Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.


I know :-> - but I couldn't help but to make the point that Canon's strategy, i.e. a Japanese company selling in *all* countries, cannot be judged by looking at US-$ prices alone. If someone says the d6 will *always* be less  expensive than d600 which is an absolute theory it can be contradicted by one different example from another large market, even if the US might be the biggest (as things should be :-)).

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.


The USA is the largest DSLR camera market in the world, period.  Europe is not 1 country, and thus their prices vary.  You're welcome to attempt to poke holes in my little theory, but I still stand by it.  How many Canon DSLR's are sold in both UK and Australia?  Not as many as in the USA, by a mile.  Enough said.


You can come up with whatever theory you can make up with your myopic view of the world. The demographics of Canon's sales is such that only 27 per cent of its global sales come from the US. Americas ... North as well as South America.
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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #237 on: June 20, 2013, 03:10:26 PM »
I just wanted to say that with a 600EX-RT on top providing the red AF assist grid, the outer points on the 6D work fantastic in any lighting conditions, from bright sunlight to a pitch black room.

Now that I've moved to the Canon RT system I have absolutely no problems with the 6D's autofocus, when before I would use all points in good light and switch to center only whenever there were problems focusing in darker areas.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #237 on: June 20, 2013, 03:10:26 PM »

J.R.

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #238 on: June 20, 2013, 03:13:42 PM »
I just wanted to say that with a 600EX-RT on top providing the red AF assist grid, the outer points on the 6D work fantastic in any lighting conditions, from bright sunlight to a pitch black room.

Now that I've moved to the Canon RT system I have absolutely no problems with the 6D's autofocus, when before I would use all points in good light and switch to center only whenever there were problems focusing in darker areas.

Thanks wildfire ... I think I'll give it a spin with the AF assist with the speedlite. I'm sure it will help!
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CarlTN

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #239 on: June 20, 2013, 03:25:47 PM »
Your argument is unique to your market; the D600 is $100+ more than the 6D in the North American market.  He wasn't wrong by the market standard that he lives in, your market is obviously different.


I know :-> - but I couldn't help but to make the point that Canon's strategy, i.e. a Japanese company selling in *all* countries, cannot be judged by looking at US-$ prices alone. If someone says the d6 will *always* be less  expensive than d600 which is an absolute theory it can be contradicted by one different example from another large market, even if the US might be the biggest (as things should be :-)).

well i believe that you are never check on real life and only read on website. even you check on bnh store: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Digital-Cameras/ci/9811/N/4288586282  u can see that nikon D600 is 100usd more expensive that canon 6D. so do your homework or reality check


Well, your homework consists of finding a globe and trying to find the US. Got it (it might say "Center of the world" on your version)? Good. Then look at all the other countries, amazing, isn't it? Well, and Canon sells dlsr everywhere, that's why I quoted the € (that's "Euro") prices, and even if you don't care about that in an English-written forum there are always the Brits and the Ozzies who don't pay in US-$.


The USA is the largest DSLR camera market in the world, period.  Europe is not 1 country, and thus their prices vary.  You're welcome to attempt to poke holes in my little theory, but I still stand by it.  How many Canon DSLR's are sold in both UK and Australia?  Not as many as in the USA, by a mile.  Enough said.


You can come up with whatever theory you can make up with your myopic view of the world. The demographics of Canon's sales is such that only 27 per cent of its global sales come from the US. Americas ... North as well as South America.


"The Americas" would also include Central America and Mexico, if you want to get technical.  Obviously you do.

Oceana, Europe...those aren't countries with a single currency.  But then neither are the Americas.  Japan is the only "area" on the chart with a single currency...so their market share is huge in comparison to all other countries.  What is the current price in yen of a D600 vs. a 6D?

I was also speaking of DSLR sales, because we are talking about a price comparison between two DSLR's, a Nikon and a Canon...and not overall sales.

You really have no point to make here, do you?  Other than you dislike the USA, or you think we don't realize there are other people in the world?  Sorry to disappoint you, but I do very much realize it. 

In any case, if you like the Nikon D600, or otherwise think it's a better value than the 6D, you should buy that as your backup camera, and some Nikon glass.  That would be a lot less costly than buying a 1DX as your backup camera, as you seem to imply in a previous post. 

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Re: 6D Autofocus not impressive
« Reply #239 on: June 20, 2013, 03:25:47 PM »