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Author Topic: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K  (Read 14141 times)

c.d.embrey

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2013, 03:13:36 PM »
Isn't there somewhere on the 'net that isn't pimping the over-hyped Black Magic :(

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2013, 03:13:36 PM »

iamoui

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 03:30:01 PM »
Isn't there somewhere on the 'net that isn't pimping the over-hyped Black Magic :(

By "pimping" do you mean letting people know of their announcement? These "over-hyped" blackmagic camera's are unbelievable for their price point! There is a reason everyone on the internet is talking about these. A camera the size of an iphone 5 that can shoot 1080p in ProRes 422 and compressed RAW with 13 stops of DR on SD cards was UNHEARD OF until now. Tell me, what do you think is 'over-hyped' about these cameras? Judging by the images coming out of the first generation Blackmagic Cinema Camera (in the right hands, of course, like any camera) I, like many people, can not WAIT to get my hands on these cameras. If it's 'over-hyped' for you then don't buy it! Simple as that.

Mick
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 03:32:46 PM by iamoui »

thelebaron

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2013, 03:45:38 PM »
I cant wait to see how this affects the 1dc. do canon reduce the price, because its also a 1dx. but if they leave the price high, I cant imagine anyone would want it considering the 4k bmc.

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2013, 04:27:48 PM »
Let me just get this straight, so it has the same sensor size as the 5D Mkiii and only costs $500 more at there releases and it shoots 4K raw...
Close, with one very important correction: Super 35mm is a film format that is approximately APS-C size.

I was thinking that but then I saw the part about it sharing stuff with the new Leica

The size of the sensor as listed on the BH photo page is 21.12 x 11.88mm which is 16x9.
Equivalent crop is 2.0 vertically, 1.7 horizontally from full frame. So its actually smaller than APS-C
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2013, 05:35:16 PM »
So price of 1DC - price of 1DX = MORE THAN price of the BM 4k camera!

So body of 1DC - body of 1DX = tweaked firmware and $2 heat sink.

Priceless  ;D



Policar

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2013, 05:37:42 PM »
Well, for all the outputs and controls you get the Canons aren't bad, but in terms of dynamic range, uncompressed RAW with pro res 422 (awesome codecs for editing in post) and likely retaining sharp detail with no moire (the previous BMCC doesn't seem to have any issues with that) the BMCC is just so much more awesome, and look now it's got 4K with a super 35mm sensor and it's a global shutter! I don't think any of the Canons have a global shutter, so they will all suffer from skewed images when panning or shooting fast action. And the BMCC  already has an electronic EF mount too so for strict video work there's no reason to get the 5DIII unless stills are a main as well. Which, it is for me sadly, now the 5DIII isn't a slouch for video, it may be soft and not give options for glorious codecs and data output, but people have been using the system like they did with the 5DII with good results, but looks like I will be needing 60FPS at 1080P for upcoming work and neither system cuts it, Panasonic wins the cake with their GH3 again, and the GH2 is still better for all around in that regard!

So, to keep things simple, the 5D line for video is a thing of the past, the Canon Cinema cameras are overpriced for what the competition is delivering (overpriced can be used for many things but in this case it is very relevant). 4K may not have much use as even 720P can live on, but for editing, shooting in 4k and then exporting at 2K or even 1080P could mean near flawless IQ compared to 1080P only cameras, especially if you can edit in uncompressed RAW

The C100/300/500 all deliver more resolution than the BMCC with much less aliasing. I doubt this camera will have an AA filter so it should be sharp but crispy.

That said, the specs on this are incredible. The lack of skew alone will be HUGE for vfx. Canon's cinema line is designed for professional use in much the way many pros shoot JPEG... you want the product good enough and out the door fast and a good JPEG is much better than a bad RAW shot. The C line has amazing ergonomics, decent technical specs, a good "look," and a poor codec, but it's all about speed and versatility. Local ads and stuff. The BMCC is more about high end personal work (film festival type stuff), for which budget and ease of use are less essential. Fully outfitting one to be field-ready will be expensive, though. Very expensive...

The GH3 seems awesome.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2013, 05:38:02 PM »
The biggest problem for Canon is not resolution, but codec: they've crippled their cameras into irrelevance

BMD:
$1K: pocket BMC: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, compressed 12-bit RAW
$3K: original BMC: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, uncompressed 12-bit RAW
$4K: BMC-4K: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, compressed 12-bit RAW

$3K: 5D3: 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264

in a few weeks the 5D3 will do 8bit 4:2:2 lossless over HDMI and add say $700 for Ninja2 and you get 8bit 4:2:2: proRes (would be so awesome if they gave 10bits)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 07:01:02 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2013, 05:38:02 PM »

NormanBates

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 07:21:38 AM »
Let me just get this straight, so it has the same sensor size as the 5D Mkiii and only costs $500 more at there releases and it shoots 4K raw...
Close, with one very important correction: Super 35mm is a film format that is approximately APS-C size.

I was thinking that but then I saw the part about it sharing stuff with the new Leica

The size of the sensor as listed on the BH photo page is 21.12 x 11.88mm which is 16x9.
Equivalent crop is 2.0 vertically, 1.7 horizontally from full frame. So its actually smaller than APS-C


That's the active area in quad-HD mode. The sensor is 22.5x16.9 mm (vs 22.3x14.9 for the 18mpix APS-C sensor, for example).
If it can record 4096x2160, it will be 1.6x crop. If it can only do 3840x2160, then it is 1.7x crop (that is, using my rule that only the most restrictive dimension counts, in this case the horizontal one).


The biggest problem for Canon is not resolution, but codec: they've crippled their cameras into irrelevance

BMD:
$1K: pocket BMC: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, compressed 12-bit RAW
$3K: original BMC: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, uncompressed 12-bit RAW
$4K: BMC-4K: 10-bit 4:2:2 Prores, compressed 12-bit RAW

$3K: 5D3: 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264

in a few weeks the 5D3 will do 8bit 4:2:2 lossless over HDMI and add say $700 for Ninja2 and you get 8bit 4:2:2: proRes (would be so awesome if they gave 10bits)

well, yes, but you said it yourself: 4:2:2 is nice, but that's still 8-bit

dswatson83

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 01:11:01 PM »
Is there an adapter that allows me to put my Canon lenses on this camera? Either the $1000 camera or the 4k? I'm just not in the mood to have to buy new lenses for another system right now. But I would gladly try these out instead of the 5D3 if I can use my lenses.

Equilux

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 02:31:44 PM »
Is there an adapter that allows me to put my Canon lenses on this camera?

The answer is:

Quote
The camera will only be available in EF mount

So you won't need any adapter for your Canon lenses in combination with this camera. The 1000$ will come along with a mft-mount - so you can easily adapt your EF-lenses to the BM Cinema Pocket Camera too.

cayenne

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »
Is there an adapter that allows me to put my Canon lenses on this camera?

The answer is:

Quote
The camera will only be available in EF mount

So you won't need any adapter for your Canon lenses in combination with this camera. The 1000$ will come along with a mft-mount - so you can easily adapt your EF-lenses to the BM Cinema Pocket Camera too.

Well, as for the mini 'pocket' camera. It has a powered MFT mount. Now, from what I've heard, there is a MFT to EF adaptor. I'm curious if it will work with either autofocus or iris control?

The original BM camera, comes with a choice of powered EF, but the MFT on that camera, is NOT powered, so not only is focus manual, but so is iris control.

I'm curious with the pocket MFT, since it is powered...will work with EF lenses with an adaptor myself!!!

If so, I'm thinking ONE MFT lens..something in the 12mm-35mm, which on that sensor, would be about equivalent to 24-70mm on the EF side....that with my current cannon glass would be a great deal for me and I'd jump into the new camera immediately as a 2nd camera for my shots...

C

SpaceGhost

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2013, 05:22:53 PM »
Without 60P, this is still very cool but I wouldn't buy one.

Adding that one feature will entice me to buy two.
M

Pieces Of E

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2013, 05:27:17 PM »
The Blackmagic Design cameras are pretty awesome for what they are and how they've burst onto the video market, but for us Windows-based PC owners without a brand new Thunderbolt input device, they're useless. I don't even think that a stand-alone SSD reader exists, so that puts the kibosh on my interest. As if I have the cash-ola to spend anyways!  ::)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:52:47 PM by Pieces Of E »
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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2013, 05:27:17 PM »

Axilrod

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2013, 05:44:11 PM »
Without 60P, this is still very cool but I wouldn't buy one.

Adding that one feature will entice me to buy two.
M

4k, compressed raw, global shutter for $4k and lack of 60p is what stops you from buying one?  Considering that 60p isn't even that great for slow-mo that's just mind-boggling to me.  I mean if you really have to shoot slow-motion just rent an FS700 for those shots and get 240fps. 
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:46:57 PM by Axilrod »
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Axilrod

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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 05:45:41 PM »
I love Blackmagic Design right now, I preordered both of these guys and they deserve it.  I think they're more or less filling the old BMCC bodies with the new sensors and using the old ones for the pocket cam, really smart play on their part.  Only people I feel bad for are the ones that got their preorders filled in the last month.
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Re: The Blackmagic Production Camera 4K
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2013, 05:45:41 PM »