Thank you for the thorough reading. I must confess that perhaps my odd english might be the cause of a few misunderstandings... Let me clarify:
I'm curious why you think the 6D even remotely qualifies as competition to the 7D line. The two are radically different parts. The 7D line is all about performance and reach. It has a high frame rate (currently 8fps, rumors put 7D II at 10fps), a higher end AF system (19pt all cross type, rumors put the 7D II at 61pt same as 1D X), a much deeper frame buffer, and a load of other bells and whistles.
I never said that they are comparable. The 6D is the bottom of FF and 7D2 is the top of the APS-C. IMO it actually will compete with the 5D3 depending on what specs will come out.. If they are "evolutionary" no chance to top 5D3... If they are revolutionary now then we are talking about an interesting game for sure. About evolutionary/revolutionary
please continue reading
2 CPUs - true: they could be either DIGIC 5+ and yet since they have DIGIC 6 it would be better at the same PRICE to put the new one.
Well, I just did the math in a reply to another answer. Here it is again. Assuming some extra masked pixels, ~8%, then we have two sensors with "real" pixel counts of 22.7mp and 26mp. Assuming 14-bit, then the numbers work out as:
22,700,000 * 14 / 8 * 10 = 398mb/s
26,000,000 * 14 / 8 * 10 = 455mb/s
I did calculations in another thread, and I came to the conclusion that each DIGIC5+ chip is capable of processing at a throughput rate of 250mb/s. A pair of them, interleaved as they are in the 1D X, would offer 500mb/s throughput. A pair of DIGIC5+ in the 7D II should be plenty to support a 10fps frame rate at either 21mp or 24mp.
I actually learned something new... for which I am very, very thankful!
However I hope you DO consider the possibility that additionally to the POWER OUTPUT in MHZ or whatever it is - they do implement new mathematical instructions, which later are used for new algorithms on which better ISO is achieved or totally new features. E.g. face recognition. Was it achieved in DIGIC 5 or 4?
Although to be honest so far what I hear - most new features for DIGIC 6 are video related
Why not?!?! 5D3 had nothing innovative. It was updated 5D2... For me the only different between 1Dx, 5D3 & 6D is the Speed... AF... you say... 1DX - yes... the rest NO!
Price is a matter of demand, not consumer desire for status. Canon has extremely high demand for their cameras, regardless of their technological status. The percentage of camera owners who care about the minutia of a manufacturers technology is extremely small relative to the total camera buying populace. High demand drives higher prices more than any other factor, with perhaps base commodity (materials) prices and import/export tariffs being close seconds.
I believe here you missed my point: I've got your idea pretty well, I believe. The high demand in DSLR market (mid, advanced, Pro) is dictated by the prerequisite of lenses ownership. Entry LEVEL is totally different game/market and perhaps easier to be explained with the basics of Economics.
Yes, I know people enough flexible and liberal to switch to NIKON... but most are conservative to go that painful road, which aside from the learning curve which is shorter for them and yet exists also includes possible loss of money by selling CANON to buy NIKON glasses.
" The percentage of camera owners who care about the minutia of a manufacturers technology is extremely small relative to the total camera buying populace.
" - true for point & shoot and entry level. But currently I don't want to move to NIKON even though I know that their Dynamic Range is better than Canon's. Ergo I am interested in technology and I know where it already happens, but stay with the "total camera buying populace
" due to financial commitment in L glasses.
And again I will state it:
Hell yeah! That is what I call MILKING the Canon glass owners. :-(
Um...did you actually READ my post? Canon isn't milking anyone. Market factors over the last five years have pushed commodity prices very high. Even after the recent "crash", they are still quite high, only pulling back to prices from about two years ago (which is considerably higher than they were for the first half of the first decade of the 21st century.)
Come one! PLEASE
! Digital photography was a risky business with bad image and results compared to traditional photography back then in the "first half of the first decade of the 21st century
"! Hardly could you even think of comparing prices then and now.
Companies don't just sit pretty and "milk" their customers...if the customer thinks the price is too high, they won't buy, and the natural consequence of that is that prices come down. People were more than willing to pay $3500 for a 5D III, and have been more than willing to pay as much as $13,000 for a nice telephoto lens.
Those are consumer CHOICES! It has nothing to do with a corporation milking its customers for all they are worth. Canon has to sell at what the market demands, and so long as they can sell and still make a profit, if the MARKET demands a lower price, then a lower price will be had.
CHOICES??? - you mean LACK OF CHOICES
. What should have people bought (did I use the correct tense here!?!?
) when there was ONLY 5D3 and 1DX...? An OLD body? Buying in most cases is an incentive of upgrade. NOw don't tell me if you were a regular Joe you would buy your kids a 5D3 to have fun with?!? I even don't want to speculate what would have happened if 2 months after the 5D3, the 7D2 have come out... That is why we are currently in the "evolution" game.
...better ISO thanks to some of the improvements that found their way into the 1D X, 5D III, and 6D (more translucent CFA and higher SNR) supporting ISO 25600 (and clean ISO 1600 output), and maybe a process shrink to 180nm (to demonstrate Canon is and will be a competitive force in the DSLR world going forward).
180nm is out there even from CANON for quite some time! Since 2007
. If technology available and NOT used for for 5 years... you call it principals of Economics. I call it "milking".
Why do things NEED to be "revolutionary"? I mean, what exactly does "revolutionary" get you over "evolutionary"?
DEVELOPMENT! Evolution is NO TREND SETTER. Evolution is for followers.
Revolution (here) is game changer, new trend, new DEMAND requirement for the customers if you wish. 5D2 was the first VIDEO DSLR, even if it was followed ONLY a few months later. 6D is the first wi-fi, DSLR AFAIK.
CANON is a follower FINALLY about dual memory cards. A trend in the PRO market set by... NIKON? (not sure).
That is why I don't want 7D2 with a 5D3 CPU and CMOS! I will NOT be happy with ISO achieved 2 years ago by the time the 7D2 would have reached the streets. I want & need a revolution body!
Sony made one extra leap, from analog readout to digital readout. Revolutionary? Or Evolutionary? Hard to say, although personally, I feel it was part of a continual chain of evolutionary progress that has been occurring for years on the sensor front.
Yeah! That is why NIKON & SONY are ahead on the DR. Do you want me to remind you whose CMOS is on the top places on DXo?
So, if Canon continues to build on their own knowledge in the realm of sensor design and manufacture...and if they reuse some of the improvements they first introduced with the 1D X and 5D III...that would be grounds for you NOT being interested in the 7D II? Seriously?
Yeah for sure! I want all the features set by NIKON as a trend for some time before BOTH 1Dx and 5D3. And by-the-way... which "specific" feature of 5D3 should I be interested in? The FF?
The way I see it:
1DX- GREAT! but unreachable for limited pocket.
5D3 - a 1DX cheaper and slowly copy
6D - the cheapest and slowliest version of 1DX, but with wi-fi within the body.
.... An 18mp APS-C 7D II on a 180nm process would have a fairly considerable benefit in terms of FWC over the 18mp APS-C 7D I. That alone would improve noise performance. Improved CDS, on-die readout and digital conversion, column parallel readout, etc. all of which would be possible or more plausible with a process shrink, could also have a significant impact on IQ, reducing noise considerably, potentially even to D800 levels.
Using CANON technology from 2007? How inspiring! March 2012 is the street date of D800. And its current price is $2,796.95. Do you want to bet that if CANON (hopefully) have FINALLY implemented the 180nm in their CMOS the price would be above (AT LEAST) $3k. We are promised to have 8/10 fps as well
A 90nm process in a digital sensor would compound the benefits of moving to a 180nm process!
Ahym if finaly this year we are to get 180nm that would make 90nm somewhere in the mid-summer of 2018?
There is plenty of room for Canon to be "revolutionary". Even if they continue to apply the advancements they made with the 1DX, 5D III, and 6D...they can STILL be "revolutionary", and can still apply some radical improvements to their next sensors. APPLY
is one nice key word. The "advancement" please read as "following the competitors". The NIKON 4D was in February 2012 on the streets. The 1DX was in March 2012. Which still makes CANON a FOLLOWER!
Thank you again. I learned something very nice from you!