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Author Topic: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software  (Read 61711 times)

privatebydesign

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #300 on: May 13, 2013, 12:06:54 PM »
I wonder how long it will take the crackers to break the phone home requirement? Given their past performances I'd say within a few months.

Adobe collected $300,000,000 via CC during its first year, sounds a lot but it isn't for a $21B corporation. The stock price has fallen a touch since the announcement. Whilst the stock market likes the idea of the rental software model and the steady income it brings, they know there is going to be a backlash for the first companies that do it.

Adobe are desperate for people to adopt the model, absolutely desperate, hence the hiding of CS6, the introductory offers, the forum apologists who are employed by Adobe to be here and every other forum I have seen ( http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=367787 ) etc etc, they need to show good conversion numbers as it is a direct figure for income potential and it will affect the share price. Unlike an upgrade cycle where people have been able to pick and choose if an upgrade is worth the price, the onus used to be on Adobe to keep coming up with new and compelling features, now the onus is on the user to keep paying, new features or not.

As I see it the real "issue" for Adobe is not us smaller user photographers, hell we can work around corporate greed just the same as ever, just keep CS4-5-6, buy LR5, render using LR and when OS's don't support that anymore set up a dedicated Mac Mini, or Windows whatever, as a dedicated image computer (I did that just over a year ago and couldn't be happier), nor is an issue the big heavy users who do want and need every new feature in their big graphics departments. The real battleground for Adobe is the smaller genuine businesses, the 4-10 user license group, they need a lot of convincing to adopt this new model.

I am related to a family of printers, the various family members own small print outlets all over the world, individually the shops fall into the 4-10 license group and they are doing some serious soul searching. However good their cash flows look they have all had hard times. They are very resistant to the idea that they won't be able to buy a perpetual license and stick it on one machine in the corner and always have access to the program that made their customer files. It is a very common situation for customers to come back years later to use graphics that were made previously. They don't like the idea one bit that the shift of power has flipped so completely to Adobe, they know they will not be in the position to miss a payment, ever, for ever, or that Adobe can up the price whenever they like whether it is reasonable or not.

To most of them it just doesn't make economic sense to tie their work and output to a program that only works via subscription. They are actively looking for work a rounds, they intend to get one CC per shop and isolate it, see how it goes, but do 90%+ of their work on their current CS6 licenses.

These are the users who's adoption rates will be the making or breaking of the subscription model. And despite Adobe's commitment to the new model, it could be broken comparatively easily, there are special verification free versions out there..........
« Last Edit: May 13, 2013, 01:22:57 PM by privatebydesign »

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #300 on: May 13, 2013, 12:06:54 PM »

cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #301 on: May 13, 2013, 12:25:20 PM »
Regarding Student-Teacher Software licenses, does anyone know what the licensing agreement actually says, or are we just having a bar stool legal discussion?

I've never purchased the educational version. I wonder what the agreement actually requires. Does it prohibit other household members from using the software? Does one need to be registered in a course that requires the software? Can you purchase software not related to the classes you are taking (for example, if a taking an HTML course, can you only purchase Dreamweaver, or are you eligible to purchase the entire suite?)

I always thought part of the purpose of educational software was to promote the product by establishing a base of students who know and use the program and then, when they leave school, they will be more inclined to a) encourage their employers to use that software program and b) when they advance to the point where they are making purchasing decisions for their employers they will be more likely to select the software.

In other words, I always thought it was as much a marketing tool as anything. That was, I assumed, one reason why the purchasing rules are rather lax, but the company offers no upgrade path.

Following Meh's logic, it seems that a student who buys CS6 to use a part of a hobby that is unrelated to school work might also be guilty of pirating the software.

According to the Adobe site, all you have to do is show a Student ID that is valid, and having a valid .edu email address also helps.

Frankly, I'm working now to register with a local college, for $50 I can get a student ID, and I will use that to buy the CS6 suite, for my own use. Plain, simple, legal.

And I have read the FAQ from Adobe themselves, and it is perfectly legal to use this educational copy for commercial uses.

http://www.adobe.com/sea/special/education/students/studentteacheredition/faq.html

Look under the "How can I use my software" section.

C

Meh

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #302 on: May 13, 2013, 12:33:29 PM »
The onus used to be on Adobe to keep coming up with new and compelling features...

Very true... and it could very well be that compelling advancements are going to get fewer and further apart, that happens with most technology.  In the early years there are a lot of new developments but after a while the easy and obvious stuff is done and it gets harder and harder to come up with the next great feature.

Unless there is some feature of PS CC that is really needed or wanted, then anyone who currently owns PS should probably upgrade to CS6 and wait to see how things go with CC and if new features get added continually over time as Adobe is suggesting.  Not much harm in doing that, it's a cautious approach.

unfocused

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #303 on: May 13, 2013, 12:42:04 PM »
According to the Adobe site, all you have to do is show a Student ID that is valid, and having a valid .edu email address also helps.

Frankly, I'm working now to register with a local college, for $50 I can get a student ID, and I will use that to buy the CS6 suite, for my own use. Plain, simple, legal.

And I have read the FAQ from Adobe themselves, and it is perfectly legal to use this educational copy for commercial uses.

http://www.adobe.com/sea/special/education/students/studentteacheredition/faq.html

Look under the "How can I use my software" section.

C


Wow! That agreement is much looser than I imagined. I didn't know they allowed it for commercial use and I didn't know there was an upgrade path. Very interesting. Honestly, the agreement almost seems to be inviting abuse – allowing persons to buy one edition every year, accepting anyone employed by a school, etc.
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cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #304 on: May 13, 2013, 12:53:38 PM »
According to the Adobe site, all you have to do is show a Student ID that is valid, and having a valid .edu email address also helps.

Frankly, I'm working now to register with a local college, for $50 I can get a student ID, and I will use that to buy the CS6 suite, for my own use. Plain, simple, legal.

And I have read the FAQ from Adobe themselves, and it is perfectly legal to use this educational copy for commercial uses.

http://www.adobe.com/sea/special/education/students/studentteacheredition/faq.html

Look under the "How can I use my software" section.

C


Wow! That agreement is much looser than I imagined. I didn't know they allowed it for commercial use and I didn't know there was an upgrade path. Very interesting. Honestly, the agreement almost seems to be inviting abuse – allowing persons to buy one edition every year, accepting anyone employed by a school, etc.

That's likely the reason for its existence in the first place.

And while companies don't 'like' pirating (which the educational version method is NOT), it is largely accepted as a method to get their software out there in a large fashion, which will often lead to legit purchases.

MS Windows owes a LARGE bit of their worldwide popularity and leadership in the market, to piracy. Piracy helped MS Windows spread throughout the world....and they benefit from this even to this day. No, they won't earn a dollar from everyone using it, but it is now so prevalent, that any legit commercial interest WILL have legitimate purchased licensed copies, as that it isn't worth them getting an audit and being fined heavily.

But yes, do read the TOS for the educational versions....and if you follow the letter of the regulations, it isn't piracy, even though some may have 'moral' misgivings about doing it. You don't have to follow the intent of it...just the letter of it.

This isn't a law after all.

C

unfocused

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #305 on: May 13, 2013, 01:01:07 PM »
Private, you make a number of excellent points.

Your examples are just some of many that I think Adobe hasn't thought through.

I think one of the interesting things will be how this plays out over the next year and a half. Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6. The real impact on Adobe may not show up until August, 2014, when all those entities who took the introductory pricing the first year fail to renew.

I think Adobe is gambling that they can sell customers on the subscription model over the next year. The problem with that gamble is I don't see that Adobe has a good exit strategy, but Adobe is giving their customers a year or more to devise their own exit strategy and is giving their competitors a year to get to market with alternative products.

As I said at the beginning of this discussion, I can really see Corel being a strong acquisition target for a company like Google, which already owns NIK and has the resources to develop a strong competitor. 
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Dantana

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #306 on: May 13, 2013, 03:13:06 PM »
I'd be really curious to see a breakdown of Adobe users by business size/type.

I work for a smallish multimedia company and we have been on subscription for our 3D software for some time now. With that software (Maya and Max) it makes sense due to backward compatibility issues, upgrade pricing, etc. We haven't taken the leap here with our Adobe software yet, still on CS5. It wouldn't end up being a horrible deal for the company to go CC and it would open up some cross platform usage that is an issue here from time to time.

For my home use I'm bothered by the whole thing. I can't justify the annual cost based on what I do at home, especially since at the moment none of it is bringing in any money. If I was freelancing it would be different. I'm on a really old version right now that works for some programs on Windows 7, but not others (CS1).
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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #306 on: May 13, 2013, 03:13:06 PM »

smithy

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #307 on: May 13, 2013, 04:32:32 PM »
From what I've read since this little side topic began, I'm convinced that using my wife's student version of CS6 Design Premium on a shared household computer is legal and not a form of 'piracy'.

After checking Adobe's rules on educational use, I've found that they are even more relaxed than they were 5 years ago when I bought CS4.  As mentioned by someone else, you can now use the student version for commercial purposes (this was expressly forbidden in CS4), you can install it on 2 computers (used to be 1), and you can upgrade it.  It also clearly states that you can continue to use the student versions after you've finished your time as a student.

Another point is that you don't need to have an educational requirement for one of their products in order to purchase (e.g., you don't have to be a photography student to buy Photoshop - just a student).

Still, I'm glad 'Meh' made me explore the legalities further, and now I can sleep easier.
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drjlo

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #308 on: May 21, 2013, 04:01:25 PM »
Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6.

I'm also thinking about going to CS6 from my current CS5 and watch how things go with subscription model, but what about this Adobe Application Manager that I apparently am forced to download for CS6 and all the complaints about it on the web? 

What truly useful feature does CS6 have over CS5?

cayenne

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #309 on: May 21, 2013, 04:09:23 PM »
Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6.

I'm also thinking about going to CS6 from my current CS5 and watch how things go with subscription model, but what about this Adobe Application Manager that I apparently am forced to download for CS6 and all the complaints about it on the web? 

What truly useful feature does CS6 have over CS5?

I'd not heard of this yet...do you have any links pertaining to Adobe App Manager, and problems with it?
Just from the sound of it, it sounds like the Windows Manager type thing that MS came out with a few years ago when trying to update things, etc....

TIA,

cayenne

unfocused

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #310 on: May 21, 2013, 04:28:17 PM »
Because of their introductory pricing, I suspect many will access the service for the first year, while holding on to those copies of CS6.

I'm also thinking about going to CS6 from my current CS5 and watch how things go with subscription model, but what about this Adobe Application Manager that I apparently am forced to download for CS6 and all the complaints about it on the web? 

What truly useful feature does CS6 have over CS5?

I'd not heard of this yet...do you have any links pertaining to Adobe App Manager, and problems with it?
Just from the sound of it, it sounds like the Windows Manager type thing that MS came out with a few years ago when trying to update things, etc....

TIA,

cayenne

I've been using CS6 for nearly a year.  As far as I know, Adobe Application Manger seems to be just an updater that tells me when they have updated the software (bug fixes, etc.) and then automatically downloads the fixes. I've never had a problem with it.
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bitm2007

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Re: Adobe to Stop Making Packaged Software
« Reply #311 on: May 22, 2013, 04:57:13 AM »
Hi Guys

There is an interesting new post titled 'Creating something better than Photoshop CC', on the Adobe Forum
 
A link is below

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5341658#5341658

I would be in favour of either option mentioned

wickidwombat

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Ode to Adobe CC
« Reply #312 on: May 23, 2013, 12:05:17 AM »
Oh Adobe how do I love thee,
take my credit card for your monthly fee.
My work ever more trapped in a bastion
bound and shackled by your subscription.
No more software for us to buy and own
but only in perpetual servitude use on loan
Thy minions scour the land for signs of dissent
Where resistance builds against software for rent.
Customers silenced if they be not full of joy
at being beholden to Adobe's ploy.
The lowly customer, Adobe's golden goose,
now suffers at the hangmans noose.

 :-*
APS-H Fanboy

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Ode to Adobe CC
« Reply #312 on: May 23, 2013, 12:05:17 AM »

tombu

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Re: Ode to Adobe CC
« Reply #313 on: May 23, 2013, 01:01:24 AM »

shunsai

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Re: Ode to Adobe CC
« Reply #314 on: May 23, 2013, 01:49:31 AM »
Oh Adobe how do I love thee,
take my credit card for your monthly fee.
My work ever more trapped in a bastion
bound and shackled by your subscription.
No more software for us to buy and own
but only in perpetual servitude use on loan
Thy minions scour the land for signs of dissent
Where resistance builds against software for rent.
Customers silenced if they be not full of joy
at being beholden to Adobe's ploy.
The lowly customer, Adobe's golden goose,
now suffers at the hangmans noose.

 :-*

impressive. i'm moved!  ;D

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Re: Ode to Adobe CC
« Reply #314 on: May 23, 2013, 01:49:31 AM »