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Author Topic: fair compensation?  (Read 2361 times)

Malte_P

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fair compensation?
« on: July 11, 2013, 06:23:51 AM »
i sometime send images to our local newspaper for the "readers images" column.

now someone got back to me today and asked if they can use an image for a 2014 calender.
it´s a calendar about local motives around the region where i live.

they normaly sell 1500-2000 of these calendars for 8,90 euro.

of course i feel flattered and i would even give them the image for free.
but i read so much about photographer should not work for free and how this undermines the value of photography.

so what would be a fair compensation?

« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:03:41 AM by Malte_P »

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fair compensation?
« on: July 11, 2013, 06:23:51 AM »

agierke

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2013, 06:52:56 AM »
This is a usage fee situation and it varies greatly depending on market, region, and print run.

I would personally do no lower than 150.00
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Malte_P

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2013, 07:01:01 AM »
This is a usage fee situation and it varies greatly depending on market, region, and print run.

im from germany.
as they told me they run around 1500-2000 calendars and they sold nearly all of them the past years.

they offered me 80 euro.
i have no clue if that´s ok or not. well it would be for me, as i have no clue. :D
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 08:03:27 AM by Malte_P »

SwissBear

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2013, 07:39:15 AM »
i think it's not very much, but ok. It's some 5ct per printed calendar ;)

As long as you only sell them print permission, and not the image right, it sounds right, but far away from the deal of a lifetime ;)
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Malte_P

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2013, 08:01:58 AM »
i think it's not very much, but ok. It's some 5ct per printed calendar ;)

As long as you only sell them print permission, and not the image right, it sounds right, but far away from the deal of a lifetime ;)

i have no clue how much you can earn on a calendar you sell for 8,90 euro.

it´s just that im curious what the normal fee is in such a case. :)

as i said, if they had offered me nothing i would have given them the ok anyway i think.
just to see my credits on a calendar sold here in the region. ;)
im just an enthusiastic amateur.



 

fotorex

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2013, 08:31:37 AM »
Hi Malte,

I´m also from Germany. Last winter I was in a similar situation for a photo to be printed in our local newspaper. I was offered 50 Euro for this onetime print. As they do not earn more money because of printing this one photo in one certain issue of their newspaper I agreed. But I think a picture used in calendar for the purpose of eraning money should give a slightly higher compensation. I would suggest try to deal with them and ask if you also could get 150 Euros.

Frank

melbournite

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 08:57:12 AM »
We had a reporter from a local paper come to do a story on a local issue in our street which concerned us.  The reporter came on a Sunday and he told us that the photographers don't work on Sundays.  I said I could take some photos as the story could get more coverage with a photo.  He agreed but informed me that they could not offer me money for it and I said that's ok, as long as I get my name listed under the photo.  He said, yes for sure.  But they forgot to list my name.  Rrrrrrrrrr.  He apologised profusely but I was so upset for so many days.

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2013, 08:57:12 AM »

Jay Khaos

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2013, 09:42:17 AM »

of course i feel flattered and i would even give them the image for free.
but i read so much about photographer should not work for free and how this undermines the value of photography.


This IS important.  Not just with photography, but with any business.  I've worked with many ad agencies and have done freelance graphic design (not so much photography that is directly paid for)—but it becomes more and more apparent to me that this concept holds true.  With agencies that are always giving their clients "deals" and cutting prices, it's a massive pain to work for because you become the client's bitch.  Even though the price only came down a little, the value (in their head) is completely gone.  Now they are confident in their position that 'these people need my business', and from then on it's a game of guilt and their low price isn't a "good deal" anymore—it's the norm.  Next time they want an even better price, or free (as a 'loyal customer').  You'll learn more and more that the value of your product is almost 100% based on your personal brand/reputation.  Being tactful is the difference between having shitty clients like described above, and having clients that are excited to have reserved your time for themselves, and feel confident that their money is well spent.

I guess my advice/moral of the story is, don't be afraid to charge a fair price (the fair price is what you think they should pay—not what the photo is worth to you personally).  NEVER give something for free if the client is using it to make himself money, unless there is a clearcut incentive for you to do it and and the client knows that this incentive is the only reason you are dropping your price (which is normally super expensive--but hes getting a special deal). 



Just another small thing I've learned: You're typically better off if you don't acknowledge that you're excited about the "exposure" in front of the client.

My reasoning:
- Excitedness can be interpreted as "oh.. hes pumped about this... I can probably get away paying less next time"
- Because it makes the client feel like you might have gotten the better end of the deal
- If only subconsciously, this ruins your value to the client because they have developed their own definition of what you're worth.

I'm definitely not saying to be an asshole to a client.  Just don't act super pumped that you have their business.
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AcutancePhotography

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2013, 09:42:37 AM »
i read so much about photographer should not work for free

My 0.02 Euros

I understand about not working for free, but in this instance you did not "work".  They want to use a photograph you took as part of your hobby/interest in photography.  That is different from the calender people telling you to go out and get this specific shot.

I think the "fair compensation" is having your name on the photograph that will be used on the calender. You can add this to your portfolio and then, if you ever decide to become a professional photographer, you have this published photograph to your credit.

I would rather cultivate a good relationship with the calendar publisher so you will have other opportunities to get your photograph published.  Then, perhaps, the calendar publisher might actually hire you to go out and get a specific shot.

I really doubt you will get much money from this single photograph, so trying to get money won't get you much and may sour a potential relationship.  A better investment might be to increase your publication rate. 

But, as soon as anyone asks you to go out and shoot something specific, then the "photographer should not work for free" kicks in. 

Good luck with it.  It is awesome that someone wants your picture on a calendar.  I would be happy with just that.  :)
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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2013, 09:52:13 AM »
No comment on how much you should charge.

It's a wonderful feeling that your photo(s) been selected :)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 09:54:21 AM by Dylan777 »
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niteclicks

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2013, 09:53:46 AM »
Our local electric coop runs a contest each year for their calendar, and pays $300 us if they choose your photo.

Jay Khaos

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2013, 09:56:03 AM »
i read so much about photographer should not work for free

My 0.02 Euros

I understand about not working for free, but in this instance you did not "work".  They want to use a photograph you took as part of your hobby/interest in photography.  That is different from the calender people telling you to go out and get this specific shot.

I think the "fair compensation" is having your name on the photograph that will be used on the calender. You can add this to your portfolio and then, if you ever decide to become a professional photographer, you have this published photograph to your credit.

I would rather cultivate a good relationship with the calendar publisher so you will have other opportunities to get your photograph published.  Then, perhaps, the calendar publisher might actually hire you to go out and get a specific shot.

I really doubt you will get much money from this single photograph, so trying to get money won't get you much and may sour a potential relationship.  A better investment might be to increase your publication rate. 

But, as soon as anyone asks you to go out and shoot something specific, then the "photographer should not work for free" kicks in. 

Good luck with it.  It is awesome that someone wants your picture on a calendar.  I would be happy with just that.  :)

I disagree with this.  I would agree if it were for a newspaper, or something not for profit. Not saying the logic is wrong... but just because the photo is worth probably nothing to you personally, it IS worth something to them. 

The ball is now in your court to brand your product:

Take the submissive role and give the photo to the big man in hopes that he will think of you again.  If/when they do come back, they won't expect to pay full price if they were already given a favor.  And if they do pay full price, they won't feel as good about the transaction...

OR

Charge 150 Eu, or more, not at ALL an unaffordable price to someone who runs a business (or can afford to construct any prodcut to resell).  Might even take the situation further and make the client confident that that is a good price, and that it's conditional, because you have specific interest in his project. 

If you lose the client or reputation by charging, you probably don't want their business in the future...
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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 10:00:41 AM »
I'm no professional, I've not sold a print and it doesn't sound like you're a pro either.  Keep that in mind as you read.


Who is doing the calender, are they for profit, non-profit, community support?
No matter the case make sure you get the recognition and maintain your rights to print and distribute your work.
If they are for profit then I'd push them on the price, make sure you get your share.
If they are a civic organization/non-profit then I think I'd graciously accept their offer, get the recognition and be happy that I'm helping someone help others.

Then, see if there is a way to make some money off the recognition.  For instance if the organization is a local tourism board, then talk to local touristy places and see if they would display and sell your image(s) in different sizes.  Post card for gas stations/hotel lobbies.  Larger images framed and hanging in a hotel lobby, if a tourist can't afford the full size print maybe they'll buy a postcard or an unframed 8x10.

Use the calendar as a launching pad to bigger and better things rather than treating it like the big and better thing.


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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2013, 10:00:41 AM »

unfocused

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2013, 10:19:38 AM »
I'd take the 80 Euro and also ask for a credit line and a couple dozen calendars for you to have for your portfolio.

You're not bargaining from a position of strength. They'd like to use your picture, but if you demand too much, they can certainly find another image to use. I say that because, if they publish the calendar every year, they no doubt have regular contributors and sources for pictures.

Having the picture published and being able to show it around, even if it is only to show your kids and grandkids, will be worth much more than the 80 Euros, which will soon be gone.
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Hobby Shooter

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 10:43:06 AM »
I'd take the 80 Euro and also ask for a credit line and a couple dozen calendars for you to have for your portfolio.

You're not bargaining from a position of strength. They'd like to use your picture, but if you demand too much, they can certainly find another image to use. I say that because, if they publish the calendar every year, they no doubt have regular contributors and sources for pictures.

Having the picture published and being able to show it around, even if it is only to show your kids and grandkids, will be worth much more than the 80 Euros, which will soon be gone.
I totally agree with this. They can probably just turn somewhere else as they are likely to have a very limited budget.

Get published and make sure to add it to your CV.

Good luck!

J

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Re: fair compensation?
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2013, 10:43:06 AM »