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Author Topic: Canon is going to add mid format  (Read 10873 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 12:48:41 PM »
Keep in mind that this may be a purely financial move on Canon's part.  It's possible (probable, even) that if they buy an established medium format brand, they won't rebrand the line as Canon, but rather keep the current brand intact, but streamline marketing and distribution channels to save costs and increase profit.
There have been Rumors for Years posted on NL.  He specifically asked for MF rumors a couple of days earlier, that brings out those who like to fabricate rumors in droves.  If Canon decided to get into MF, it would be more PR than profit making, something to show that they have a bigger selection than others. 
The Phase one cameras, I believe, use the Mamiya 645 lens mount, and lenses are made by a third party.  I doubt if Canon really wants to sell cameras that use a third party lens, so they might need to buy Schneider Kreuznach which also owns B&W and Century Optics.  It becomes a bit of a minefield then, depending on a German company for lenses for a camera made in Denmark.  Canon likes to own and run the entire supply chain.

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 12:48:41 PM »

Danielle

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 03:46:15 PM »
Keep in mind that this may be a purely financial move on Canon's part.  It's possible (probable, even) that if they buy an established medium format brand, they won't rebrand the line as Canon, but rather keep the current brand intact, but streamline marketing and distribution channels to save costs and increase profit.


Agreed. That thought crossed my mind after I posted too.

Normalnorm

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 08:22:52 PM »
Keep in mind that this may be a purely financial move on Canon's part.  It's possible (probable, even) that if they buy an established medium format brand, they won't rebrand the line as Canon, but rather keep the current brand intact, but streamline marketing and distribution channels to save costs and increase profit.
But they would still be stuck with a shrinking market. I also believe that the books they look at will astonish them at how parlous the MF market is.
Things always look better from the outside.
OTOH maybe they want to buy C1 and get all that CC switcher business.  ;)

moreorless

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2013, 09:07:31 AM »
I was discussing this a few months ago on this forum and was basically shot down...

It would be great to have a medium format canon series. Yes it would probably just be for professionals and no you don't need the extra pixels for weddings/sports/birds in flight. I know I need them for larger billboards in airports or down the sides of buildings. A price point around the £8,000 to £12,000 mark would be great as it'll be lower than the hasselblads. an all in 1 system would be great rather than the phase 1/mamiya separates system. I want a massive mirror with a huge loud flop and I want to have the old school look down view finder.

Yes they'd make/design new lenses. But that's what a company does, builds stuff and we buy it if it fits out needs. MF is the new FF and I welcome it's possible return to affordableness.

I think it would take a monumental effort to start from scratch.... Not saying they couldn't, but it would be hard. That's why I see some kind of deal with Hasselbad as a likely sign.

Look at micro four thirds....  Several second tier companies got together, cooperated, and they are now the dominant player in mirror less cameras.... The lenses can go anywhere....  Why not the same for FF?

Think about it.... Canon makes a deal with Hasselbad to share the mount.... Canon makes a medium format body and starts selling it. MF sales jump, Hasselbad bodies might take a drop in sales, but the lens sales would skyrocket.... Both companies make out like bandits....

P.S.... If you carried around a 4X5 camera and a stack of film holders, medium format is tiny.

I see medium format being a little different though, m43 is aimed at a very broad audience and offers a wide range of bodies/lenses to try and maximise this audience, a Canon MF system would likely be aimed much more specifically, you look at Hassleblad, Phase One and Leica and they don't offer anything like the same size of system.

I don't see Canon looking to work directly with any other brand, I'd guess a lot of the reason for producing a MF system in the first place would be linking the brand to ultra high end cameras, If a takeover happened I'd guess we'd see either a total rebranding or staff and facilties put to work creating a new Canon system.

One interesting direction for me would be to take digital medium format mirrorless. In the days of film rangefinders afterall made up a lot more of the MF market than they did the serious 35mm market, I'd guess due to the greater size saving.  Besides the price difference I think size is really whats hurting MF today compared to FF DSLR's, my second cousin is a travel photographer just sold off a Hassleblad system in favour of FF DSLR's and size was the main issue for him. Added to that I think the MF market has clearly been targeting rich amateurs for whome size is likely to be an even larger issue.

Ellen Schmidtee

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2013, 09:57:48 AM »
The problem is lenses. Canon would have to come out with another complete line of high end lenses... And that takes time to design and facilities to manufacture... And at the same time as it is trying to update most of it's L-glass and already running into production volume problems.

Wouldn't the company Canon would acquire have it's own line of lenses and manufacturing facilities?

I wonder whether Canon could convert the cameras & lenses to EOS, e.g. mount diameters might be an issue.

AmbientLight

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2013, 10:35:47 AM »
The problem is lenses. Canon would have to come out with another complete line of high end lenses... And that takes time to design and facilities to manufacture... And at the same time as it is trying to update most of it's L-glass and already running into production volume problems.

Wouldn't the company Canon would acquire have it's own line of lenses and manufacturing facilities?

I wonder whether Canon could convert the cameras & lenses to EOS, e.g. mount diameters might be an issue.

Even though there may be lenses and production facilities available we must expect Canon to bring in its own expertise in both research and development and also in production. This should serve to increase quality and decrease production costs, but it will also seriously change both the product offering and how it is being sold as in how often, how successfully the product is being sold. Just purchasing a company won't be enough, because the purchased company must also be brought in-line with what Canon is doing to realize potential synergies.

The alternative would be to purchase a niche vendor just to acquire market share in that niche, but without any further plans. I don't think Canon would do such a thing just for bragging rights, which is both costly and potentially non-profitable.

Normalnorm

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 10:40:54 AM »
Phase One: 300 employees
Canon:  198,000 employees

By any measure the MF market barely moves the needle for them.
For the hobbyist (that wont buy but will talk about them much as the auto enthusiasts declaim loudly about Porsche , Ferrari Lamborghini etc.) the market seems very significant.

Can Canon translate this to meaningful growth for their core brand or will it be a wasteful indulgence on the part of some enthusiasts in the company?

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2013, 10:40:54 AM »

AmbientLight

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2013, 10:45:58 AM »
Phase One: 300 employees
Canon:  198,000 employees

By any measure the MF market barely moves the needle for them.
For the hobbyist (that wont buy but will talk about them much as the auto enthusiasts declaim loudly about Porsche , Ferrari Lamborghini etc.) the market seems very significant.

Can Canon translate this to meaningful growth for their core brand or will it be a wasteful indulgence on the part of some enthusiasts in the company?

Quite frankly I doubt that at Canon what you have described as some enthusiasts are the actual decision makers. In case Canon moves forward and invests in this shrinking market, it is because they see some business potential, possibly based on some information they have internally available, which Canon sees as a reason for this move. We can only guess at what this is. I assume it could be getting their hands on some technology they covet (low probability as I see it) or actually redefining part of the market (high probability as I see it).

Sporgon

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2013, 11:03:23 AM »
I doubt there's any truth in this; at least not in Canon producing MF gear. They are hardly a niche market company.
MF companies wanting to sell ( out )  would be a completely different kettle of fish though. Larger format companies are concerned about the onward and upward march of the FF sensor. My source ? My partner in Building Panoramics has been UK agent for a well known large format digital since the beginning if digital time.

Halfrack

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 12:10:55 PM »
IF Canon were to get into a MF type situation, the company they should buy isn't Phase One or Hasselblad, it's Dalsa - the company behind the IQ1 and IQ2 sensors.  If Canon can control the IP on the sensor technology it would give them a lot of firepower to go against Sony sensors.

http://www.digitaltransitions.com/blog/dt-blog/phase-one-iq260-a-sensor-story
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unfocused

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 01:56:07 PM »
One way this would make sense would be if Canon is buying a company for their industrial division – a company that makes cameras for military, law enforcement and surveillance purposes for example.

Surveillance cameras are a growth industry and Canon's technical expertise in low-light sensors might mesh nicely with a company that has an established customer base in the industry. Plus, Canon's established worldwide sales network could give them an edge.

 Price isn't as much of an issue, as neither government anti-terrorism contracts nor law enforcement surveillance are all that price sensitive (cameras are cheaper than cops or security guards and they work around the clock).  In some cases the price can even be passed on to the offender (think Red Light Cameras).

We get caught up in thinking that traditional applications like commercial photography are always the driving factor, but Canon has a lot of other interests and markets out there. Surveillance is just one possibility. It could be for their medical division or any of several other industrial applications.
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Jon Gilchrist

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2013, 03:14:05 PM »
Perhaps they will purchase the Pentax MF products. That would give them an established product to start with, along with non-European manufacturing. And considering that the Pentax is discontinued, they could probably pick it up for a song.

alexanderferdinand

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 12:00:14 PM »
Too small market for a brand like Canon.
Would bring a big rise of Mojo, but it seems Canon want to satisfy their shareholders, nothing else.
Canon is acting like an old human who is afraid of loosing its money under the bed.
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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2013, 12:00:14 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2013, 12:14:35 PM »
but it seems Canon want to satisfy their shareholders, nothing else.

Who else would you suggest they try to satisfy?  I trust that you realize that as a publicly held corporation, they have a legal obligation to their shareholders...
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alexanderferdinand

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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 04:49:17 AM »
Therefore I don't believe Canon goes into such a small segment, not so profitable like selling a ton of bodies with an APS-C sensor in it. I simply don't believe Canon going this way. And I would like to be wrong :)
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Re: Canon is going to add mid format
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2013, 04:49:17 AM »