October 20, 2014, 01:21:14 AM

Author Topic: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???  (Read 22988 times)

comsense

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 106
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2013, 03:24:27 PM »
Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?
Once upon a time, I managed to get moving atheletes in focus with a Minolta X-700.  Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X
Not relevant. I am surprised that you are trying to defend using EOS M to shoot wedding  :o. Yes it can get some great to decent photos, but you will surely miss many. As Jim O pointed out the manual focus cameras of past had nice workarounds. EOS M is probably one of the worst camera I have used to capture the moment instantly (and its not only the AF, dead time between the shots has a good part to play too).

Regardless, this discussion seems to be pointless:

Can EOS M be used to shoot weddings: Yes
Can you get some great wedding photos: Yes
(Imagine a crazy scenario with 10 assistants carrying M toting nice L lens; randomly you would get some great keeper for every moment)
Are there better options than using M (provided same/similar glass): Almost everything else (except P&S and iphone)


Lets move on to something more meaningful....
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 03:27:35 PM by comsense »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2013, 03:24:27 PM »

JPAZ

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 566
  • If only I knew what I was doing.....
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2013, 04:35:20 PM »

The pair of photogs who shot my wedding had no trouble getting crisp focus of those moments using Mamiya RZ67's.  How fast is the autofocus on those? 

::)

Once upon a time, I managed to get moving atheletes in focus with a Minolta X-700.  Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X

Once upon a time, I got an occasional good pic with my Argus C-4.   ;D

But, given the limitations of the "manual focus" on the M lenses, I can see the point.  However, with the adapter and a manual focus lens.......
5d Mkiii; Eos-M; too many lenses; 430 EXii and a whole lot of stuff

Jim O

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 177
  • Driving the short bus
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2013, 05:43:59 PM »
Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X

Apples and oranges.

I shot weddings and events using 645 manual focus back in the late '80's into the late '90's. I did "sports" with an AE-1 Program and a motor drive. Back then we also had bright optical viewfinders and the ability to readily detect if the subject was in focus, essentially using phase detection. Those advantages are not present in digital SLR's, especially not those with small sensors.

The M has no optical viewfinder. If you use an STM lens there is also a disconnect when manually focusing, at least with the 40 2.8 which I have used. I imagine it's easy to overshoot, though honestly I haven't tried it much with moving subjects. I bet that I can focus faster, much faster, with a film camera/lens combination designed for manual focus than I could with an LCD only camera and just about any EF lens on manual. I doubt there would be a competition.

The EOS-M with face detect and tracking is way way faster and more accurate than I ever was after twenty years of using every pro Canon FD camera, I grew up with an AE-1, moved to F1's, A1's and F1N's. I can control remote flashes in groups, I can use focus assist etc etc, the EOS-M is far more capable of shooting accurately and creatively at f2 on a wedding dance floor than I ever was with manual focus gear.

You missed my point. I compared manual focus to manual focus, not manual focus to autofocus. You think the M has fast enough autofocus and I do not. I think its autofocus system is s-l-o-w. We can argue about it or agree to disagree.


I've always thought about fitting a katzeyes to my 7D.
Miss the split / micro/prism rign finder screens.  Made prefocusing dead easy!

Exactly. That's how we got good shots back in the day when things were moving. That and using a lot of film.
When people see you arguing with an idiot on the internet, all they see is two idiots arguing.

Dylan777

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4189
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #78 on: August 27, 2013, 06:27:45 PM »
Don't expect everyone on dance floor to stop, so you can get focus. About the groom and bride walking the aisle? About bride throwing bouquet? You think the M focus is fast enough for those moments?

You're so right.  I mean, before autofocus cameras, there were no wedding photographers, right?  Forget brides slowly walking down the aisle, there was no sports photography before fast AF either, was there?  Back in the 50s and 60s, Sports Illustrated was all words and no pictures, 'eh?

The pair of photogs who shot my wedding had no trouble getting crisp focus of those moments using Mamiya RZ67's.  How fast is the autofocus on those? 

::)

Once upon a time, I managed to get moving atheletes in focus with a Minolta X-700.  Now, if you mean you wouldn't shoot a wedding with an EOS M because you need fast AF achieve good focus, that's sounds like a personal problem, to me.   :-X

That's good point Neuro.
I wonder how many of bad pictures were in the trash, before they can show few good photos?
Would you like to take that risk in your wedding?

I wonder ::)... why many of us upgraded from 5D II to 5D III or 1D X? better AF system? better ISO?

I can't wait to see your 600mm + M in wildlife shooting. Please no turtle or snail ;D
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 06:46:21 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 1DX -- 5D III
Zoom: 16-35L f4 IS -- 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 200L f2 IS -- 400L f2.8 IS II

tcmatthews

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 149
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #79 on: August 27, 2013, 11:15:04 PM »
Currently I am using my EOS M with native lens.  But will likely use more EF lens when Magic Lantern is stable with the new firmware.  That will add focus peeking (although it is still better on a Nex) then manual focus will be easier for my FD lenses.  I also think that it has major potential as a compact video camera. 

A big issue with the M and Manual focus is that there is no way to turn off Auto focus.  I ran into a problem the other day were it would not focus where I wanted it to zoomed in all the way.  I had to half press the shutter and focus manual. M lens do not have auto-manual switch.   It was a serious pain while sticking the M into a plant at a odd angle.  It could really use a articulating screen.  I will likely be looking into the menu again to see if there is an option to turn on manual focus when the shutter button is not depressed. 

It you want manual focus in modern times for legacy lens buy a focus screen or a NEX.  A NEX 6 focus peeking is fantastic with FD lens.  As an aside all native NEX lens are focus by wire and manual adjustments are needed with any lens set below 2.8.  Sony chose to sacrifice accuracy for speed.  There are no real difficulties focusing the SEL50 1.8 manually.  I prefer old manual lens but there is nothing that prevents a good manual focus with focus by wire if it is properly engineered for manual focus. 

The true is most modern lens are configure  for auto-focus.
6D, 60D, Rebel XS, EF-S 15-85,  EF 70-200f4L, EF 100f2.8L,  Tamron 70-300VC,  Tamaron 28-75f2.8,   EF 40f2.8,  EF 50f1.8, EF 85f1.8, EF 24mmf2.8IS  EOS M 22f2, 18-55, EOS M-EF adapter, Nex6,  SEL50f18,  SEL1018,  DN 30f2.8, adpaters and Fd and M42 lens.

takesome1

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 345
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #80 on: August 28, 2013, 12:18:31 AM »
I have to be on the side of those that say they would question or not trust a wedding photog that shows up with an M. (or a T?i for that matter). My first question for them would be did they get their education from MWAC attack. All it takes to be a "Pro wedding photographer" is they convince someone to pay them one time.

But still speaking of the AF speed of the M. It was apparently fast enough at $299 that many bought in to the system.

A question, the specs on Canon's website say that AI Servo Mode will not work on EF or EF-S lenses, so I am assuming that face detect+tracking would not work either with continuous shooting?
Of course with a 6 frame burst and 4+fps rate I am sure with an M on my supertele I could get keepers of birds in flight in manual focus.

drjlo

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 641
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2013, 12:49:40 AM »

EOSD4651 by drjlo1, on Flickr

Finally got around to trying my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8 on EOS-M, and as great as Tokina is, I must say the EF-M 18-55mm produces very nice results when comparing Tokina's 16 mm vs Canon's 18 mm.  Shot at say f/3.5, other than the mild difference in focal length, it would be difficult for me to tell the two apart as far as sharpness and IQ. 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #81 on: August 28, 2013, 12:49:40 AM »

sdsr

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 685
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #82 on: August 28, 2013, 10:04:04 AM »

Not relevant. I am surprised that you are trying to defend using EOS M to shoot wedding  :o. Yes it can get some great to decent photos, but you will surely miss many. As Jim O pointed out the manual focus cameras of past had nice workarounds. EOS M is probably one of the worst camera I have used to capture the moment instantly (and its not only the AF, dead time between the shots has a good part to play too).

Regardless, this discussion seems to be pointless:

Can EOS M be used to shoot weddings: Yes
Can you get some great wedding photos: Yes
(Imagine a crazy scenario with 10 assistants carrying M toting nice L lens; randomly you would get some great keeper for every moment)
Are there better options than using M (provided same/similar glass): Almost everything else (except P&S and iphone)


Quite.  If you have to relearn obsolete techniques to use a new camera, there's something wrong (especially when that new camera isn't designed for obsolete techniques either; that "dead time" you refer to is maddening). 

The point is a fairly simple one, I would have thought.  Everyone who buys an adapter so they can use the EF/EF-S lenses they already own probably owns a Canon DSLR; and that DSLR works better and is easier to use than an M and, unless it's an older model with a noticeably inferior sensor/processor combination, makes better images too.  So unless, like Neuro, you simply want to use the M as an emergency back-up, buying an adapter seems far from being a "no-brainer" to me. 

BL

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 411
  • Great gear is good. Good technique is better.
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #83 on: August 28, 2013, 12:44:30 PM »
A big issue with the M and Manual focus is that there is no way to turn off Auto focus.  I ran into a problem the other day were it would not focus where I wanted it to zoomed in all the way.  I had to half press the shutter and focus manual. M lens do not have auto-manual switch.   It was a serious pain while sticking the M into a plant at a odd angle.  It could really use a articulating screen.  I will likely be looking into the menu again to see if there is an option to turn on manual focus when the shutter button is not depressed. 

i shoot my M in manual focus only, for both native M-mount and EF lenses, but have it set to back button AF using the * button.

there's a custom function for AF that can be set to make this happen.  i believe it is option #2 once you find it.  dig around in the custom functions and you'll find it.
M, 5Dc, 1Dx, some lenses, a few lights

bobw

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #84 on: August 28, 2013, 02:10:24 PM »
The point is a fairly simple one, I would have thought.  Everyone who buys an adapter so they can use the EF/EF-S lenses they already own probably owns a Canon DSLR; and that DSLR works better and is easier to use than an M and, unless it's an older model with a noticeably inferior sensor/processor combination, makes better images too.  So unless, like Neuro, you simply want to use the M as an emergency back-up, buying an adapter seems far from being a "no-brainer" to me.

I would say it depends on what you are using the camera for. Having hiked for miles with a heavy camera bag, I can see advantages to lightening the load by a few pounds. I would see the lens adapter as a temporary fix until more M specific lenses are available.

dtaylor

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #85 on: August 28, 2013, 03:29:41 PM »
A big issue with the M and Manual focus is that there is no way to turn off Auto focus.  I ran into a problem the other day were it would not focus where I wanted it to zoomed in all the way.  I had to half press the shutter and focus manual. M lens do not have auto-manual switch.

Use the C.Fn. that lets you move AF off the shutter button and onto the AE Lock button. At first I was hesitant to do this because I didn't like the button location for AF, but you get used to it. I generally hate AF on the shutter button and change that on every camera that I can. I just wish on the M that I could have put it on the movie record button, which does nothing in stills mode. It's in the perfect spot.

That said...you are correct that there should be an auto/manual switch. I assume Canon would want or have to put this in the on screen controls, which is fine. I can actually work pretty quickly with the screen, I just wish some of the options didn't require confirmation.

dtaylor

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #86 on: August 28, 2013, 03:35:20 PM »
I have to be on the side of those that say they would question or not trust a wedding photog that shows up with an M. (or a T?i for that matter).

If their portfolio was good I wouldn't blink. I quite frankly would rather have Canon APS-C 18 MP files then 645 scans, and how many wedding photographers back in the day shot 35mm?

I would pause over a crummy lens, but not any modern body with a 4/3 or larger sensor.

Maybe it's the way I use the M (single point AF; AF on AE lock button; often touching to place the point over max contrast) but I find AF speed to be decent and sure except for tracking quickly moving objects, which isn't much of an issue at a wedding.

Personally I wouldn't use the M as a primary camera at a wedding. But if I somehow wound up shooting one and the M was the only working camera, I wouldn't panic.

JohnDizzo15

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 412
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2013, 11:55:40 PM »
Kids finally down. Thought I'd use my minute of peace to share my manual focusing setup in this inappropriately large improper setup (at least as deemed by some in this thread).

In case anyone is curious, manual focus is made even more awesome when you have the touch shutter actuation on in manual focus mode as touching any part of the screen will trigger the shot (helps with the ergonomics for me in most instances).
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 11:57:11 PM by JohnDizzo15 »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #87 on: August 31, 2013, 11:55:40 PM »

BL

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 411
  • Great gear is good. Good technique is better.
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #88 on: September 01, 2013, 05:54:21 AM »
god i love magic lantern... i cannot wait for it to support 2.0.2
M, 5Dc, 1Dx, some lenses, a few lights

mountain_drew

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2013, 08:39:35 AM »
god i love magic lantern... i cannot wait for it to support 2.0.2
It does.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Mount EF, EF-S or L lens on EOS-M --- Your thought???
« Reply #89 on: September 01, 2013, 08:39:35 AM »