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Author Topic: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%  (Read 73651 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2013, 09:39:47 AM »
I know we all make mistakes Ankorwatt, ... you were correcting yourself for clearly saying someone else was "totally wrong" when it was you who was in fact "totally wrong".

To me it seems just to undermine your credibility without proving anything other than that you have been rather "burdus" for the last 12 years.

Actually, it showed something else.  12 years ago, he was capable of admitting that he was wrong.  He seems to have unlearned that behavior since then (and is retrospectively applying his current behavior, by implying that his factual error was due to spelling or translation).
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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2013, 09:39:47 AM »

Skulker

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2013, 09:42:44 AM »
I know we all make mistakes Ankorwatt, ... you were correcting yourself for clearly saying someone else was "totally wrong" when it was you who was in fact "totally wrong".

To me it seems just to undermine your credibility without proving anything other than that you have been rather "burdus" for the last 12 years.

Actually, it showed something else.  12 years ago, he was capable of admitting that he was wrong.  He seems to have unlearned that behavior since then (and is retrospectively applying his current behavior, by implying that his factual error was due to spelling or translation).

I think you may have a good point there.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

Jim O

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2013, 09:49:52 AM »
My first test is from 1978 Leica summicron-vs  a zoom Nikkor 80-200
then search at for example in old  Photodo magazines.
is this the best you and others can do , when the arguments runs short, trow garbage at others, it would be better if you and others  could  met me and argue with facts

If this was a "response" to my questions, it is several things but it didn't answer any of the questions I posed.

I am still waiting for answers. I have searched. Please provide the links since evidently I am too stupid to find them.

Bye the way, that was sarcasm, but I still want the links to your oh so many articles. Saying they're there, and their actually being there are two different things. It's time to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.


I think it is little bit hard to find lens, scanner etc reviews from 1978 and forward at the internet  from photo magazines
but you can always contact the new Photodo and ask them if they have any
Here is an discussion group 2001 and regarding scanners  (before the real  digital SLR time)http://www.lexa.ru/FS/msg12761.html
I think you will find a lot if you are interested and searching on my name

what kind of experience do you have regarding tests of camera equipment as dark room, scanners, lenses, film, digital cameras, color handling etc etc ?
O and I forgot, many of you " brand fan boys" like to defame others when the own  argument are short / none/ nada , and it is regardless of the camera brand
Try to discuss with facts instead, much more interesting, you maybe will learn something

Well that's still not an "article". It's something from a mailing list.

As for me, well I'm just an average joe trying to learn something from an expert, something you purport to be, so far with little to back it up. I'm not trying to defame you at all. Rather I am giving you a chance to back up what you say about yourself. So far you have come up with zilch, except to try to deflect it back at me. You seem to feel very persecuted by simple questions.

When people see you arguing with an idiot on the internet, all they see is two idiots arguing.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2013, 03:29:48 PM »
Feel free to direct questions . Several have previously tested my skills as neuro and jrista here at CR  a  sort of admission test  where they  have  challenge me in many ways.

Tested, challenged, and found wanting.
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Apop

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2013, 03:41:40 PM »
So is this still serious? or is it just comedy....
It's making me laugh and feel smugly.

Ankorwatt is trolling ? or?
Ankorwatt must have some serious issues, maybe even a complex?
The need to proof himself , wanting to be a skillful credible person ?, Why do you need peoples approvement? Why should they credit you or see you as a skillful person?

Also I think appreciation and admiration is not recieved by a person who is screaming for it.
Summing up all you ''achievements'' and titles is misplaced arrogance and will make most people disgust.
If you have great skills and knowledge, there is no need for yourself to address it , people will see and experience it and complement you for it.

Also, the most credible persons can talk a lot of rubbish

« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 03:43:36 PM by Apop »
.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2013, 04:00:11 PM »
I admit if Im wrong show me please what you are talking about
and if not fu... of
tired of your innuendo
so up to proof

Do you remember how you earned the sobriquet 'Mikael half-the-photons Risedal'?  You insisted - repeatedly, despite being corrected by many people - that enabling the HTP setting reduces by half the number of photons reaching the sensor.  Did I just miss your admission that you were wrong somewhere in the repeated handwaving and denials?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2013, 04:19:50 PM »
I admit if Im wrong show me please what you are talking about
and if not fu... of
tired of your innuendo
so up to proof

Do you remember how you earned the sobriquet 'Mikael half-the-photons Risedal'?  You insisted - repeatedly, despite being corrected by many people - that enabling the HTP setting reduces by half the number of photons reaching the sensor.  Did I just miss your admission that you were wrong somewhere in the repeated handwaving and denials?

you have not get it  even today , have you?
to create a head room and increase the gain at base iso you have to expose half of the original time/f-stop= You let in the half light/photones compared to base iso.= shorten the time=create a head room = time= equal to metering  200iso
Go back and study the subject head room Neuro

Same old Mikael, wrong still.  When I'm in manual mode (that's the one with the M, where the user sets the aperture and shutter speed, in case you didn't know that), and then I enable HTP, the number of photons hitting the sensor does not change. The shutter speed does not change. The aperture does not change.  How is the number of photons changing in anything except your own imagination?

Go back and study what a photon is, and what determines how many reach the sensor (hint: it's not ISO) or just read your camera's manual, it's all in there.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong, intransigent, and generally making yourself look silly, once again.
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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2013, 04:19:50 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2013, 04:23:59 PM »
I admit if Im wrong show me please what you are talking about
and if not fu... of
tired of your innuendo
so up to proof

Do you remember how you earned the sobriquet 'Mikael half-the-photons Risedal'?  You insisted - repeatedly, despite being corrected by many people - that enabling the HTP setting reduces by half the number of photons reaching the sensor.  Did I just miss your admission that you were wrong somewhere in the repeated handwaving and denials?

you have not get it  even today , have you?
to create a head room and increase the gain at base iso you have to expose half of the original time/f-stop= You let in the half light/photones compared to base iso.= shorten the time=create a head room = time= equal to metering  200iso
Go back and study the subject head room Neuro

Same old Mikael, wrong still.  When I'm in manual mode (that's the one with the M, where the user sets the aperture and shutter speed, in case you didn't know that), and then I enable HTP, the number of photons hitting the sensor does not change. The shutter speed does not change. The aperture does not change.  How is the number of photons changing in anything except your own imagination?

Go back and study what a photon is, and what determines how many reach the sensor (hint: it's not ISO), or just read your camera's manual, it's all in there.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong, intransigent, and generally making yourself look silly, once again.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2013, 05:01:42 PM »
I have shown you

You have shown me you're still wrong.  You asked for an error of yours to be pointed out, where you refused to admit your mistake. I did so, and you're still not admitting it.

M mode, 1/100 s, f/8, ISO 400, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.  Av mode, f/5.6, ISO 200, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.

If your 'explanation' only applies in a very specific case, it's a bad explanation.  If you cannot understand that you're explanation is poor and often wrong, then you have a limited grasp of the relevant concepts.  Yet you always tell those who thoroughly grasp the concepts that they 'should study'.

Whatever.  It was pointless the first time, it's even more so now.  30 years of experience, maybe after 30 more you'll have learned something, but I doubt it.
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mjbehnke

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2013, 05:24:36 PM »
BOB N has now presented the figures for 70D regarding read out noise, DR etc
here we can se 70d in comparison with one Toshiba and one Sony made sensor
The read out noise is 4,35 times higher , compare this to 5dmk3 vs d800 there 5dmk3 has 12,2 times higher read out noise.

Dumb question? Why is the sensor for the Canon dated 10/1/2010 on this chart? Isn't that a little odd if the 70D uses a new sensor??
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Jim O

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2013, 06:39:59 PM »
M mode, 1/100 s, f/8, ISO 400, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.  Av mode, f/5.6, ISO 200, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.

This is basic physics, assuming of course the situation external to the camera is controlled. Anyone who does not understand this can easily learn it. Admitting one is wrong is another story evidently.

Again, assuming controlled lighting from outside the camera, the number of photons hitting the sensor can only be changed by exposure settings - the f-stop and the amount of time the shutter is open. No artificial computer driven setting in the camera's software can magically create photons or destroy them. That is contrary to the laws of physics.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 06:49:59 PM by Jim O »
When people see you arguing with an idiot on the internet, all they see is two idiots arguing.

ME

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2013, 10:11:08 PM »
ankorwatt states "Your  camera has not indicate that the time as a example are now 1/125sec instead of 1/60sec with same f-stop= halving the  in falling light/photons to the sensor  due  1 stop  shorter exposure time?"

It sounds like he believes that by switching on HTP the shutter speed automatically changes to a faster shutter speed, thereby decreasing the number of photons hitting the sensor. I am fairly ignorant on this and am trying to learn. I wonder if this is a fact or not, and does the exif info indicate a different shutter speed than what was set in M mode before switching on HTP. If it does indicate a faster shutter speed, then ankorwatt is correct. If not, then obviously he is wrong. Sounds like a simple way to prove who is right or not. I cant try it because I dont have the option to use HTP on my camera.
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Apop

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2013, 04:22:37 AM »
M mode, 1/100 s, f/8, ISO 400, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.  Av mode, f/5.6, ISO 200, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.

This is basic physics, assuming of course the situation external to the camera is controlled. Anyone who does not understand this can easily learn it. Admitting one is wrong is another story evidently.

Again, assuming controlled lighting from outside the camera, the number of photons hitting the sensor can only be changed by exposure settings - the f-stop and the amount of time the shutter is open. No artificial computer driven setting in the camera's software can magically create photons or destroy them. That is contrary to the laws of physics.

Hi, How does changing the Exposure increase or decrease the amount of photons hitting the sensor?
It does make sense(brighter/darker image), but i'm just wondering what actually happens.
.

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #57 on: September 03, 2013, 04:22:37 AM »

Sporgon

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #58 on: September 03, 2013, 05:02:17 AM »
M mode, 1/100 s, f/8, ISO 400, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.  Av mode, f/5.6, ISO 200, change HTP from disabled to enabled, what happens to the number of photons?  Nothing. No difference.

This is basic physics, assuming of course the situation external to the camera is controlled. Anyone who does not understand this can easily learn it. Admitting one is wrong is another story evidently.

Again, assuming controlled lighting from outside the camera, the number of photons hitting the sensor can only be changed by exposure settings - the f-stop and the amount of time the shutter is open. No artificial computer driven setting in the camera's software can magically create photons or destroy them. That is contrary to the laws of physics.

Hi, How does changing the Exposure increase or decrease the amount of photons hitting the sensor?
It does make sense(brighter/darker image), but i'm just wondering what actually happens.

According to theoretical physics photons flow, and so aperture physically restricts the amount that can pass, and shutter speed restricts the amount in time.

But from what I understand, it is theoretical physics, the emphasis being on theoretical.

Sporgon

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2013, 05:05:12 AM »
I have shown you


Whatever.  It was pointless the first time, it's even more so now.  30 years of experience, maybe after 30 more you'll have learned something, but I doubt it.

I believe there is an appropriate old saying for this;

 'There's no fool like an old fool'.

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Re: 70D vs D7100 ISO Comparison at 100%
« Reply #59 on: September 03, 2013, 05:05:12 AM »