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Author Topic: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...  (Read 4949 times)

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Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:29:53 PM »
I'm sorry create another 6D vs 5D3 thread as I know there are many, if the mods feel the need to move this somewhere else, or outright delete it. I understand.

I have visited this site for years, but never signed up to the forums, but here I am, as I have a conundrum that I haven't been able to find a clear answer to despite my months of research through these forms and other places on the internet.

Yes, that blasted eternal 6D or 5D3 question. Pros and cons for each, etc, we all know the tale of the tape. Here's my issue. Through my research, it seems to me that the majority of the people that are very happy with their 6D purchase are the ones moving up from a much older tech/system. Wether it be a 5D2, or a 40D, 30D, etc, they are cameras that use outdated tech by todays standards.

I, on the other hand, have a 7D, a camera that isn't that old in tech comparison. I am looking to make the jump to FF while keeping the 7D to use in tandem, as obviously, its still a very good camera in its own right. I am now extremely used to it's fantastic 19pt AF system, it's speed, and overall robustness. However, as I am starting to do more editorial photos and portraiture, I find that the image quality just isn't there for those uses. I also shoot weddings/events, sports, and landscape as well. I basically cover the gamut.

In my limited in-store experiences with both the 6D and the 5D3, I have found the the AF system in the 6D to be frighteningly archaic compared to the 7D. But, I have found the overall complexity of the 5D3 (beyond it's 61pt AF system) to be almost overwhelming. I don't use all the systems and settings in my 7D, so there's a good chance i'll never use all of the camera that is the 5D3, I'm not that big into video either. 

As I said, my main objective here is image quality, and I know from reading many reviews on here and elsewhere, that the discrepancy between the 2 bodies is almost nil (being excellent quality for both), as is the same with high ISO performance, and the low light focusing (although it seems like the 6D may have a slight edge here).

I can see myself using the WiFi system on the 6D for proofing photos with clients on a larger screen on the fly. But that, and the price, are the only 2 main advantages from my perspective the 6D has over the 5D3. There are many things that bug me about the 6D, all of which have been discussed before (AF system, SD cards, burst frame rate, no joystick, etc) but I'm wondering if i'll be able to ignore those things (AF system specifically) and use the 6D where it shines, for its quality of image, and keep that extra $1400 that I could certainly use elsewhere.

I would like to hear from people people who might be able to share my perspective (7D owners looking to make the hop), and maybe shed more light on it.

Thank you!

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Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« on: September 04, 2013, 07:29:53 PM »

Janbo Makimbo

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 08:00:41 PM »
I went from 7D to 6D, yes the 5D Mkiii is far superior in every way BUT it was out of my price range. I am very happy with the 6D and do not find the focussing to be as much a problem as many make out, its all down to what kind of photography you do. I use back button focussing and find that it helps greatly. I can focus using the centre point at lower levels than the 7d or the 5D mkiii for that matter.

The Wi-Fi function is certainly not a gimmick and sets it apart from the competition. Oh no it doesn't have a pop up flash.... in keeping with Canon's other FF Cameras.

The images produced by the 6D are in my opinion very good, it handles noise really well.

As I have mention before, the 6D has won many awards for being the most advanced DSLR of the year, just google it - It would not have won them if it was half as bad as people make out!!

Go for the 5D if you can afford it... if not the 6D won't disappoint!!

agierke

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 08:23:08 PM »
If you shoot weddings and events then the mrk3 was tailor made for you. The AF system, while complex, doesn't take long to learn. I was comfortable with it after about 2 hours on the first wedding I did with it. And I was coming from the archaic 5D2.

The 5D3 will be a fantastic pairing w the 7D.
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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 09:17:21 PM »
dustin created an excellent thread on the 6D ... Here -

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0
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zlatko

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 09:48:40 PM »
I use both the 5D3 and 6D extensively and about equally for weddings.  I'm very happy with both.  The 5D3 is better overall -- it is superb, especially the AF -- but also heavier & costlier.  The 6D's center point is a bit better for very low light AF, and I appreciate the lightness of the camera.  Image quality is pretty much equal.  You really can't go wrong with either, unless you specifically need what one has and the other doesn't have, such as dual cards in the 5D3 or wi-fi in the 6D.

dgatwood

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2013, 10:54:38 PM »
I went from 7D to 6D, yes the 5D Mkiii is far superior in every way...

The 5D Mk3 is superior in many ways—better autofocus, larger pixel count, metal body, etc., but it is disingenuous to say that it is superior in every way.  In dynamic range, the 6D beats it by approximately half an F stop.  IIRC, the 6D also exhibits less pattern noise (banding) in the shadows.  And, of course, the 6D has features that the 5D lacks, such as Wi-Fi and GPS.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:51:27 PM »
dustin created an excellent thread on the 6D ... Here -

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0

Yes, i found Dustin's extensive breakdown review and large corresponding thread recently, and after reading it it really made me wonder about a 6D again (after going back and forth a few times). He has a compelling argument, but again, he's apparently not that familiar with the AF system on the 7D, and therefore what the 5D3 makes use of.

What I am mainly worried about is if I go for the 6D, i'll find the alleged shortcomings too distracting, and ill be pining for the 5D3 anyway. The cost is the great equalizer though.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2013, 11:51:27 PM »

Jim O

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2013, 11:52:59 PM »
I, on the other hand, have a 7D, a camera that isn't that old in tech comparison.
2009 is ancient in "tech comparison". The 7D has many good features but it also has an old sensor and processors.

I have both. Key differences (that I can think of off the top of my head) are:

Controls, of which there are pros and cons. Joystick is very nice on the 5D3. Play button has a silly location on the 5D3 and is easily accessible with the shooting thumb on the 6D. Depth of field preview button is small and harder to find on 6D for some silly reason.

Dual cards. Great if you can't afford to loose a shot, as in weddings, events. etc. Otherwise you can back up regularly using wifi on the 6D. Another point is the 6D can make full use of UHS SD cards, the 5D3 can use them, but not at their full speed. Not sure that's a big deal.

FPS - do you need 6 fps, or is 4.5 fps enough?

Focus - another mixed bag. The center point on the 6D has the best low light performance of any camera anywhere at this moment. The other points are pretty useless for tracking and very low light. Disabling all but the center point in AI Servo improves things. 5D3 seems complicated but the AF system is relatively easy to learn. I don't think the AF on the 6D is as bad as most people who've never used one make it out to be, but there are limitations. Canon really screwed the pooch by not at making all sensors cross type. Despite the sensitivity of the 6D's center point, this is a clear win for the 5D3.

High ISO performance - slight edge to 6D.

Overall image quality - slight edge to 6D as well.

In camera HDR - 5D3 will save the RAW files for you if you set it that way. 6D will only give you the resulting jpeg. Same with multiple exposures. Of course you can do your own HDR with your own RAW files using the 6D and any HDR software.

Custom shooting modes - two on 6D, three on 5D3.

Custom file names on 5D3, not on 6D.

Weight - the 6D is lighter and easier to carry all day.

Wifi and GPS - if you use them they're nice. Wifi app and capabilities could use some work.

Video - you don't shoot now (neither do I except occasionally with  my phone) but this is a clear win for the 5D3 in several ways, and may factor into resale value down the road.

Cost - as you've pointed out, they are very different in cost. Clear win for the 6D.

Shutter durability rating, max sync speed, and max shutter speed differences are all mostly red herrings designed to distinguish one from another. All are slight edges for the 5D3 but even in sum are hardly meaningful.

I'm sure there are a few bells and whistles that I've forgotten, but that's a lot of it.

I live in a resort city where there's a lot of street entertainment at night. I got a lot of use out of my 6D at night this summer and really enjoyed it.

If you want to shoot a lot of fast moving birds, land animals, sports, etc, the 5D3 is superior, but all that can be done with the 6D. Of course you might miss some shots. You may get more keepers with the 5D3, but some of the keepers from the 6D may be "better".

If you're really torn, consider renting each, one after the other, and seeing which you like, and whether the 6D can perform for you. Taking a few snaps in a camera shop is not going to answer that question really. Either one will be a step up in image quality from what you are using now.


Edit - another point - "silent mode" is really close to silent on the 6D, on the 5D3 not as much.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 11:54:34 PM by Jim O »
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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2013, 12:00:34 AM »
dustin created an excellent thread on the 6D ... Here -

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0

Yes, i found Dustin's extensive breakdown review and large corresponding thread recently, and after reading it it really made me wonder about a 6D again (after going back and forth a few times). He has a compelling argument, but again, he's apparently not that familiar with the AF system on the 7D, and therefore what the 5D3 makes use of.

What I am mainly worried about is if I go for the 6D, i'll find the alleged shortcomings too distracting, and ill be pining for the 5D3 anyway. The cost is the great equalizer though.

I think it all boils down on what application you'll use the body for.  As for Dustin, most of his pictures are either slow moving or fixed that's why 6D appealed to him more than the 5D3.  However, if you're mostly shooting moving subjects then that's the time I think it will be better for you to move to 5D3 instead.  If you've got the money, then go for a 5D3.  It's better to spend more now than later.  I agree though that you must consider the cost more carefully.  I for one I'm going to get the 6D because I don't do too much sports photography.  I found that 5D2 is good enough for most of my photography so 6D would be more than enough also.  I'm just waiting a little bit more so I can also get the 24-105L lens.  Certainly, convincing myself that I don't need a new body for my personal hobby is a great effort.  :D  I don't care too much for my part-time work since I'm using my company's 5D2 (events).

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2013, 12:28:37 AM »
If you're in the US, consider a refurbed 5DIII when it goes on sale.  That will close the price gap considerably, or wait for the sales during the holidays.  I got mine for 2500 USD from a non-authorized seller, but the 1000 difference makes "self-insuring" much more attractive.

A lot of people think that the only advantage of the 5DIII's AF is for sports application, but it also helps out when using fast glass wide open.  It allows you more options for framing shallow DOF shots because the non-center points are useable (unlike the 5D2).  I haven't used the 6D much, but I had owned the 5DII, and the center AF point was good, but using it for sports was a chore.  You had to frame looser or stop the lens more, and AI servo was definitely less consistent/accurate.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2013, 12:51:18 AM »
I use both the 5D3 and 6D extensively and about equally for weddings.  I'm very happy with both.  The 5D3 is better overall -- it is superb, especially the AF -- but also heavier & costlier.  The 6D's center point is a bit better for very low light AF, and I appreciate the lightness of the camera.  Image quality is pretty much equal.  You really can't go wrong with either, unless you specifically need what one has and the other doesn't have, such as dual cards in the 5D3 or wi-fi in the 6D.

I could say exactly what Zlatko has said here the same for me.

I would add that the 7D will quickly fall out of favor for you should you pair it with either of these cameras. The image quality will be lacking, and you'll not want to use the 7D soon after pairing it with either the 6D or 5Dmk3. I got the 5Dmk3 and paired it with the 7D, but I found I couldn't use the 7D in place of the 5D3 ever, so there was no point to keeping both. If you can afford it, get the 5D3, sell your 7D and use that to pay for much of the cost of a 6D. These two together make a nice pair. The 5D3 has many great features and will be the more versatile camera. The 6D will prove to be a very handy 2nd body, especially when you need the better low light AF and want to go a little lighter in weight. I can use either of these cameras in almost any situations, although there are some situations where one is clearly preferred. The 7D just doesn't have the image quality to ever be used instead of either of these cameras. Once you get one of these, you'll be looking to ditch the 7D as soon as you can.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2013, 01:17:14 AM »
I bet that what ever you get the results and how you feel will be more down to your perceptions and personality than the camera.

Either one will be able to take great pictures. You know the differences in the end only you can choose.

If you buy a 5d3 and then regret it as you really miss the WiFi and wish you had got the 6 it will be more to do with your thoughts than the camera. Because really there are easy work around if you choose to use them.

So what I'm saying is. Listen to the comparisons on here and anywhere else but you will have to make the choice in the end. When you do get it just try to make the most of what you have. Get out and use it.
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 01:39:07 AM »
dustin created an excellent thread on the 6D ... Here -

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0

Yes, i found Dustin's extensive breakdown review and large corresponding thread recently, and after reading it it really made me wonder about a 6D again (after going back and forth a few times). He has a compelling argument, but again, he's apparently not that familiar with the AF system on the 7D, and therefore what the 5D3 makes use of.

What I am mainly worried about is if I go for the 6D, i'll find the alleged shortcomings too distracting, and ill be pining for the 5D3 anyway. The cost is the great equalizer though.

I have both the 5D3 as well as the 6D (also had the 7D till last year). The biggest shortcoming of the 6D (as compared to the 5D3) is the autofocus and coming from the 7D, it might feel like a slight let-down.

IMHO, all the other differences are just gravy with quick workarounds available for most shortcomings on the 6D.

What I would advise is you need to look at yourself as to what sort of buyer you are. If you are one of those who want the best, buy the 5D3 or else the longing for the 5D3 will almost always remain. However, if you are one of those to whom gear doesn't matter (beyond a point), get the 6D.

PS: I personally find the files of the 6D a tad cleaner than the 5D3. 
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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2013, 01:39:07 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2013, 02:08:55 AM »

Before I forget to recommend it -- RENT BOTH and use them in a particular/demanding shooting style that you know well.

I won't break down the features for you so much as there are two considerations that automatically will have you select the 5D3 -- the video quality and the AF. 

For video, I don't shoot it, but I'm told by many on this forum that it's a night and day comparison with the 5D3 outclassing the 6D.

The AF (though not the metering) is the 1DX's system -- it really is world class.  If you regularly shoot moving targets*, the 5D3 is the clear choice despite the cost increase.

  • *An exception would be if you shoot moving targets at the long end.  Many threads on this forum have run the financial numbers on this.  If you are regularly shooting moving targets at, say, 400mm or higher, I'd recommend you stay with crop so you don't feel compelled to either (a) buy the crazy pricey long glass, (b) learn to love constant teleconverter use, or (c) enjoy F/4 and F/5.6 long lenses.  All are viable -- I am not picking on T/Cs or slower lenses -- but having to use them may have you questioning why you ponied up so much for such a great body.  If you are this person, don't leave crop; I'd wait for the 7D2.

If you do make the plunge, don't be discouraged that the 5D3 is complicated.  I made the move from a crop to a 5D3 and it was fairly straightforward over time.  The camera is powerful, but so is the interface.  You can dumb down the AF to something simpler if that suits you (I actually do some zone focusing rather than cluster or point in some applications), but you still have that killer flexibility and tune-ability if you want the Ferrari-customization for tough servo tasks.

All that said about the 5D3, the 6D does make more sense if:

  • You shoot a lot of Zeiss manual focus lenses ( ;D sorry, had to)
  • You shoot a lot of LiveView
  • You shoot a lot of landscapes

In those cases, a super-flexible AF system might go to waste there. 

Also, if you are a heavy social media guy (who can live with onboard processing), the built in WiFi and GPS are a nice value and nicer convenience.

Just my two bits.  The 6D is no slouch, but it lacks some non-trivial things a veteran shooter might need.  You have to decide what's best for you.  Again -- RENT BOTH.

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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 03:00:05 AM »
I don't mind the onboard processing for the couple of Facebook shots I post.  I do all my processing in LR with RAW, which get put up on flickr and my Facebook albums.  I really like the ability to quickly go through my photos with my iPad mini.  It's much quicker than using a cable (once the device connects to the camera).  The more I shoot with the 6D, the more I realize that I don't need a 5d3.
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Re: Another 6D v 5D3 body battle...
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2013, 03:00:05 AM »