September 16, 2014, 11:40:44 AM

Author Topic: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read  (Read 16128 times)

duydaniel

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If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« on: September 07, 2013, 11:38:38 AM »
Hi there,

I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Upgrade your glass instead.

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If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« on: September 07, 2013, 11:38:38 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2013, 12:33:45 PM »
I feel...

You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion.  Others may feel differently. 

You're suggesting that upgrading from a Rebel to a 7D is a waste of money because they have the same sensor size, and personally I don't think that's good advice.
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FTb-n

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2013, 12:40:44 PM »
It all depends upon what you shoot.  I did upgrade from a 60D to a 7D and saw a huge increase in my keeper rate for sports shots.  If shooting sports and a 5D3 is too expensive, I would certainly recommend a 70D as an upgrade to a 60D.
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Don Haines

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2013, 12:42:10 PM »
Yes, sell your 7D and get a 6D. Who needs the better autofocus, weather sealing, faster frame rate......

If we all had the same needs Canon would have 1 camera model that all could afford.
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dgatwood

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2013, 12:53:55 PM »
I feel it's a waste of money upgrading from one Canon rebel to the next rebel or even a 60D to the 70D.
I suggest that you upgrade only to a larger sensor body.
It is just a waste of money to buy another camera having the same size sensor IMO.

Not at all true.  The difference between, for example, an original Rebel and even the venerable XTi is significant (6.3 MP vs. 10.1 MP).  The difference between the XTi and the 70D can be significant (10.1 MP vs. 20.2 MP) if you're trying to do significant enlarging, though only if there's enough light to not require massive noise reduction.

Also, in terms of light gathering, the 70D's maximum ISO of 25600 blows away the paltry ISO 1600 maximum on an unmodified XTi.  The 70D is actually fairly clean at ISO levels higher than the XTi is even capable of providing at all.

Although it is true that, assuming perfect detection of every single photon, sensor image quality is inherently limited by the sensor size, in reality, the rate of detection has improved dramatically over the past decade, the electrical noise floor of various electronic bits has improved, and the ability of chips to dissipate heat (which would otherwise cause thermal noise) has improved as well.  All of these things have a significant impact on image quality, too.  There's certainly reason to believe that we're approaching a limit beyond which future advancements will get harder and harder, and that the amount of improvement in each successive generation of sensor is likely to get smaller and smaller.  That means that unless you care about the new body features (e.g. Wi-Fi), you're going to need to wait a greater number of generations to get a significant benefit out of a crop-to-crop upgrade.  That doesn't mean that there won't come a time when an upgrade will be valuable, however; we're not yet to the point of having perfect detection of every photon.

And even if we don't improve the percentage of photons detected at all, there would still be room for improvement at the crop body sensor size.  As plenoptic sensors become more capable, we might see those show up in crop body cameras.  Imagine being able to correct focus errors just as easily as we correct exposure errors today.

Also, cameras are more than just a sensor.  The other hardware limits what you can usefully do with the camera as well.  For example:

  • If you have an old enough crop body, you don't have video capabilities.
  • The 70D adds Wi-Fi.
  • The 70D has significantly better focusing capability than most (all?) existing crop bodies.

Heck, we might even see GPS in some future crop body, and for many people, that would be a feature worth paying for.

That's why sweeping generalizations like yours are harmful.  They often mislead people who don't know any better into thinking that a camera is nothing more than a sensor, and that sensor technology has no more room to improve.  Both of those two beliefs are very, very wrong.

Now if you had said that there's little reason to upgrade from a 60D to a 70D, most folks would agree with you.  However, your claim implies that there's little reason to upgrade from a 300D (6.3 MP, max ISO 1600, no video, no Wi-Fi, 7 AF points, no cross points, f/5.6 minimum autofocus aperture) to a 70D (5 MP, max ISO 25600, video, Wi-Fi, 19 AF points, 19 cross points, f/11 minimum autofocus aperture in live view mode), which is just plain laughable.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 12:57:25 PM by dgatwood »

duydaniel

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2013, 01:12:51 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise
An in-focus picture beats one that is out of focus....

An action shot at that special instant beats one that missed it..... Higher burst rates really help here.
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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »

mrsfotografie

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2013, 01:20:31 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.
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duydaniel

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2013, 01:53:54 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Absolutely true. Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.
Those who need high frame rate already bought a 7D.

Do you want improvement in IQ, most importantly is glass, then sensor size
upgrading T2i -> T3i -> T4i ... is a no no

People can argue about weather sealing and I agree however unless you have 1DX, you can't shoot under rain all days.

neuroanatomist

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2013, 02:17:36 PM »
Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.

Sure, because it's not like 'regular consumers' have kids that play sports, right?   ::)
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jebrady03

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2013, 02:20:22 PM »
Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.

Sure, because it's not like 'regular consumers' have kids that play sports, right?   ::)

Also, not a lot of "regular consumers" on this site.  So, to whom is the original message tailored?

brad-man

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2013, 02:36:07 PM »
you are taking an extreme view here.
Ofc the 7D is faster but give me an example where a 7D show better IQ than a T2i.
The glass is much more important, the 2 cameras above IMO are the same thing IQ wise

There's more to camera's than just the sensor/image quality. It's ergonomics, better AF, speed etc that helps you get that picture.

Absolutely true. Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.
Those who need high frame rate already bought a 7D.

Do you want improvement in IQ, most importantly is glass, then sensor size
upgrading T2i -> T3i -> T4i ... is a no no

People can argue about weather sealing and I agree however unless you have 1DX, you can't shoot under rain all days.

What you meant to say was that all of Canon's current APS-C sensor cameras have close enough IQ to each other so that (if you have no need of improved AF, frame rate, build quality or ergonomics) it makes more sense to upgrade your glass rather than to another APS-C body. Thank you, that's very helpful ;)

davidson

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 02:46:27 PM »
damn, this means that when i want to upgrade my 6d that i need to go medium format....

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2013, 02:46:27 PM »

Don Haines

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2013, 02:49:49 PM »
Most people asking the upgrade question are regular consumer.
They will see zero improvement in IQ from say a T2i to a 7D.

Sure, because it's not like 'regular consumers' have kids that play sports, right?   ::)

And none of us shoot with an introductory camera, have our skills grow, learn new interests, and decide to upgrade to a better crop camera, yet deliberately decide to not get a FF camera...

I am waiting for the 7D2.... If you shoot crop and already have a 400mm lens and your camera criteria are pixels on the target, af, and weatherproofing, the only upgrade from the 7D is the 1DX and a 600mm lens..... A very expensive jump that few can afford.
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Dylan777

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 03:13:51 PM »
I went from:
1. 40D to 60D - swivel screen
2. 60D to 7D - better AF
3. 7D to 5D II - better high ISO
4. 5D II to 5D III - better AF + high ISO

5. 5D III to FF mirrorless + a lot of pancake lenses. I don't care who making it - Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji etc....If AF speed is x2 - x3 faster than current RX1, I'm ready to convert.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 03:20:32 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 1DX -- 5D III
Zoom: 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II

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Re: If you plan to upgrade your camera, read
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2013, 03:13:51 PM »