April 19, 2014, 09:51:35 AM

Author Topic: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?  (Read 15917 times)

cocopop05

  • Rebel SL1
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 05:02:59 AM »
I agree with the others here.  I found the images on my 24-105 were soft when using the viewfinder, but not so when using Live View. 

I used AFMA and needed a +6 adjustment to get sharp photos when using the viewfinder.

I am very happy with the sharpness of my photos when using that lens now.

I have attached a photo I took with the 24-105, not because it is a great photo, it's not, it is just a quick snap, but so you can see that the lens delivers quite sharp results.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 05:05:23 AM by cocopop05 »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 05:02:59 AM »

Janbo Makimbo

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 156
  • 6D
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 05:47:57 AM »

Here is one of mine that I was quite happy with!!

Lichtgestalt

  • Guest
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 06:00:08 AM »
I think you are correct. No photographer has ever gotten sharp images from the 6D and 24-105L lens. Of course, I've never tried either but I would recommend you skip the 6D and get the 70D.

yeah no doubt this is not a layer 8 error.. that´s impossible.

sandymandy

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 598
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 06:01:21 AM »
FF = sharpness? and i always thought its about focussing and what lenses im using  :o time to get all my old FF analog cameras back it seems.

Max ☢

  • PowerShot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 06:51:35 AM »
FF = sharpness? and i always thought its about focussing and what lenses im using 


If the lens' intrinsic optical characteristics are obviously independent of the properties of the camera body it is attached to, the overall rendition (including the rendered sharpness) of the captured image depends on the sensor (pixel size, low pass filter, etc.) and on the in-camera data processing applied to the recorded signal. Overall, every camera has a specific (and different) transfer function which convolves the image information passed through a given lens, and for this reason the sharpness of recorded image depends as much on the lens as on the camera system itself.

In the particular case outlined in the OP's message, where he wished he had used this 24-105L on the 40D instead of the 6D, a quick check on DxO Mark (sorry I used the D-word), shows that he certainly would not have obtained a better rendered sharpness, quite the contrary actually (check the sharpness profile curves). I also included the 70D body, which definitely provides a better picture rendition than with the 40D, but it is still not yet at the levels of the 6D.
The bottom line is that if you did not get a good image sharpness with this particular 24-105L on the 6D (assuming that all settings are optimal), then you would not have obtained any better rendition on the 40D or 70D with the same glass (I'm not considering the lens resolution degradation at the corner, although this did not even play a significant role in the present comparison) ...
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 06:55:30 AM by Max ☢ »

ajperk

  • PowerShot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 34
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2013, 06:59:28 AM »
I bought a 6D back in June with the 24-105, upgrading from a rebel. So far, I have been very impressed with the combo, very nice resolution and great contrast and colors. Sometimes the distortion and vignetting are noticeable, but usually not bothersome. I have found, however, that I generally get sharper images if I avoid modes such as Aperture Priority in favor of Manual or Shutter Priority where I can make sure my shutter speed stays high enough (I mention this because you had listed Aperture Priority as one of your settings). In my (admittedly limited) experience, I have found slow shutter speeds can easily rob images of sharpness, especially if you're looking for tack sharp pictures. Anyway, hope that is helpful. Maybe, as others have mentioned, you just got a bad copy.

Take care!
Canon EOS 6D, EF 24-105mm f/4L, EF 40mm f/2.8, EF 85mm f/1.8, EF 100mm f/2.8, Tokina 16-28mm f/2.8, Canon 430ex II

distant.star

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1342
    • View Profile
    • Tracy's Shooting Gallery
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 09:25:30 AM »
.
It must be frustrating to go to an event, shoot a lot of pics with what you think is good equipment and return to find disappointing results. I sympathize with you there.

The only question you ask in your post is this: "Is the 24-105 really as bad as people say it is?" In response, I have to say I never saw this as a general reputation for that lens. As far as I know, it's a solid "L" lens with a pretty good reputation. Obviously, it's a lower end zoom so you're not going to get the same results you might with a good prime or with one of the high-end zooms (new 24-70L or the newest 70-200L).

If you owned the camera and lens you used there may be fewer variables. As it is, there are too many variables to suggest why you did not get the performance you hoped for.

I don't know anything about the company you rented the equipment from. Personally, I know I can trust anything I rent from LensRentals, but I haven't dealt with other companies. I'm guessing they probably did not do AFMA on the lens/body you got. I'm also guessing you did no AFMA on the equipment.

You mentioned using AV mode at f/8 through f/11. While you said "good shutter speeds" I don't know what that might be. You've never said what the actual shutter speeds were. My experience suggests shooting a fast-moving event, even in good light, would require lower apertures with shutter speed at least 750, ideally 1000 to be safe. You seem to suggest the problem is simply OOF, but I'd check to see if there is motion blur at play here.

I've been using a 24-105 on my 5D3 this year with adequate results overall. I've found it gets too soft for my liking above 70mm, but I also haven't done AFMA. It's easier just to use it like a decent 24-70. When I want to be sure of tack sharp, I go to the Sigma 35 f/1.4 or the Canon 135L or even the 70-200L.

I suggest if you're going to rent in the future, perhaps the new 24-70L would be a better choice. And you may want to talk to your supplier about how they match bodies and lenses -- can they do AFMA for you? It's not cheap to rent such equipment, and they have a responsibility to make sure you're satisfied.
Walter: Were you listening to The Dude's story? Donny: I was bowling. Walter: So you have no frame of reference here, Donny. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know...

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2013, 09:25:30 AM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • *******
  • Posts: 12781
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2013, 10:15:44 AM »
I had the IS on and was shooting at good shutter speeds...

RAW + JPEG, Aperture Priority, AWB, Center Weighted metering. ISO 100 - 400, f8-11.

What do you mean by 'good shutter speeds'?  I was shooting in full afternoon sun yesterday, f/5.6 and ISO 400 for 1/1000 s, so in that light f/8-11 would be giving me 1/250 - 1/500 s shutter speeds - fine for static subjects, inadequate for cars in a drag race (too slow to freeze action, to fast for panning to show motion blur). 

At f/8 with a fast enough shutter speed, you should certainly be getting sharp shots from the 6D + 24-105L combo, and if your subject was reasonably distant, the deep DoF should obviate mild misfocusing (which could be corrected with AFMA).

I don't know anything about the company you rented the equipment from. Personally, I know I can trust anything I rent from LensRentals, but I haven't dealt with other companies.

I've heard of borrowlenses.com, but have no experience with them.  I would be tempted to use them, because they have a depot local to me which means no shipping costs.  However, I know that lensrentals.com tests gear after it's returned from a rental, and adjusts/fixes it if necessary (lenses are tested on their optical bench).  I also know that many rental outfits do not test their gear, but rather allow the next renter to discover a problem (not saying that borrowlenses does so, I have no idea whether or not they test the returned lenses beyond a basic, yes the AF and IS work, and it takes a picture).
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

sdsr

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 521
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2013, 10:26:03 AM »
If you still have the lens, why don't you attach it to your 40D and see how it compares to whatever lenses you use on that within its range in similar conditions?  It could be that the copy you rented is a dud, that it's not properly calibrated to the body you rented, etc. (lensrentals replaces its stock every two years and thoroughly tests them all when they return from a rental; I've no idea about borrowlenses).  The 24-105 that came with my 5DII created excellent images on that and continues to do so on my 5DIII and 6D (and that's without any AFMA on any of them).   Or maybe, as others have suggested, your speeds weren't adequate.

bholliman

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 690
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2013, 11:30:25 AM »
Have you checked the AFMA?

+1  An AFMA issue between the lens and body would be my guess. 

I have this camera and lens and have taken thousands of sharp pictures with the combo.  This lens is best from 35-85mm.  At 24mm it has noticeable barrel distortion and it is somewhat soft at the corners.  But, overall its a terrific lens.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 12:21:29 PM by bholliman »
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M
Lenses: Rokinon 14mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0 IS, 85mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8L IS Macro, 135mm 2.0L, 24-70mm 2.8L II, 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF-M 22 2.0, EF-M 18-55mm, Extender EF 2xIII; Speedlites: 600EX-RT(2x), 430EX II

Pi

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 937
    • View Profile
    • Math and Photography
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2013, 11:38:15 AM »
Is the 24-105 really as bad as people say it is?

Most people actually say that it is good. You are doing something wrong. Without samples , it is a guessing game.

applecider

  • Canon AE-1
  • ***
  • Posts: 71
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2013, 11:40:03 AM »
How about some sample images so we can see what you are getting.  Asking us to comment otherwise is just going to get generic answers.

Include the exif information, but be prepared to have comments critical to technique at least some of them.

So sample images to get closer to an answer to your question.

J.R.

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1429
  • A Speedlight Junkie!
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM »
Well, my signature doesn't say much but then, how do you define sharpness? My results with the same combo of 6D + 24-105 are reasonable.


« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 12:02:53 PM by J.R. »
Light is language!

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2013, 12:01:04 PM »

JPAZ

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 457
  • If only I knew what I was doing.....
    • View Profile
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2013, 12:08:58 PM »
FWIW, I sympathize with your frustration.  When the opportunity to capture the image has passed and then you find the shot you took is not optimal, there is little to do, even with PP.

But, I have this lens on a 5diii (not the 6d but is FF) and when I get a shot that is not sharp, it is almost always my fault, not the hardware.

JP
5d Mkiii; Eos-M (with M-22mm, M-18-55, and EF adapter); 50 f1.4; 40 f2.8; 24-105 f4; 70-200 f4 IS, 70-200 f/2.8 IS  ii; 100L f/2.8 Macro; 1.4x iii; 2.0x iii; 28-105ii; 17-40; Pro-Optic 14mm f2.8; 100-400L; 300mm f/2.8 ii; 430 EXii and a whole lot of stuff

ForumMuppet

  • Canon AE-1
  • ***
  • Posts: 63
    • View Profile
    • RedRingPhotos
Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2013, 12:18:45 PM »
While I do not have the exact copy of 6D and 24-105mm lens you were using to say for sure, I would guess it is more likely your settings than the camera/lens combo. It could also be track position and which focus settings you were using. The first thing I would do is never go into Av at a drag race. If anything it would be Tv and keep your shutter above 1/1600 unless panning. Then 1/250-1/400 would be best for top fuel. You could go down into 1/100-1/160 for Pro Stock or some of the eliminator categories. I actually crank up the shutter to 1/4000-1/8000 for the fuel categories. Examples here.

As many others have already requested, can you provide some of your images to debug along with the exif data or camera settings? That would help out a great deal here.
1D X, 5D III, and lots of glass...

My website: RedRingPhotos.com

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon 6D + 24-105 L combo not that great?
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2013, 12:18:45 PM »