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Author Topic: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?  (Read 7781 times)

Halfrack

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2013, 12:41:38 PM »


Shot with the 24-105 at iso 12800 f/4 1/40th.  Go with the kit lens for IS or the 17-40 for a wider view of things - pub crawls can be tight affairs and you can always crop in, just not back up.
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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2013, 12:41:38 PM »

Dantana

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2013, 12:52:59 PM »
Maybe you've already thought of this, but since you now have a meter you could go to a few of the places and take some incident foot-candle readings in various spots of each location. If the bars don't want you running around with a camera for a test shoot, it would at least give you an idea of the kind of light you'll be getting. That way you can go through your notes and see what kind of exposures you would be faced with in a given location.

Of course, all bets are off if the bars change their lighting, but at least you'd have some reference to work with.
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cayenne

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2013, 11:50:05 AM »
Maybe you've already thought of this, but since you now have a meter you could go to a few of the places and take some incident foot-candle readings in various spots of each location. If the bars don't want you running around with a camera for a test shoot, it would at least give you an idea of the kind of light you'll be getting. That way you can go through your notes and see what kind of exposures you would be faced with in a given location.

Of course, all bets are off if the bars change their lighting, but at least you'd have some reference to work with.

I actually ran down to the Quarter last night and shot in most of the venues for test footage...trying to keep notes on what I shot (although I was trying so much...my notes aren't that good d@mmit)...

Anyway, I'll bring the footage in tonight and see what it looks like.

I got some with the Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, the canon 85mm f/1.8, the 17-40 f/4...not much with the 25-105 f/4.

I tried in various ISOs....some bars looked ok at 6400, but did others at 10K and 12K....

I switched between styles, mostly the Marvels style, but some with factory Neutral and Standard.

In one bar, a very dark area with lots of red...I tried at 12K ISO...and played around with shutter speed of 30 just to see if it would look too "video-y"....

I'll have to see what it looks like tonight when I get home. I want to run it through Davinci Resolve Lite...and see what I can come up with.

I'm not sure what to set the WB for in most bars....it was a mix of Tungsten in most of them but also with Neon...so, any suggestions for setting White Balance?

OH...I also just ordered from LensRental.com....and have the Canon 50L f/1.2 on its way to arrive on Friday.
I shoot on Sat.

It seems that many places, I could get by on 2.8 or 1.8....and get some good looking footage, but I won't really know till I play with color correction on last night's footage and see how much noise I get.

Thanks for all the advice...please, keep it coming!!

cayenne

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2013, 02:48:59 PM »
I'm going to be helping do a shoot for a charity which involves a bar crawl here in New Orleans.

I'm using my 5D3....as per another thread I've had going, I may be renting a 50L f/1.2 lens to round out what I have:

70-200L f/288
85mm  f/1.8
17-40L f/4

I have the 24-1-5L f/4 kit lens too. I was thinking of taking the first three if I don't get the 50L, which I might, if I did...I might drop the 85mm..maybe?  I will need the 70-200 for earlier in the evening when shooting in daylight to balconies in Jackson Square...

Anyway, I'm going to try to get permission to shoot sample footage in the bars over the next week..but can someone give me some good numbers to try to shoot for so as to get good exposed footage, minimize noise?

I'm going for 24fps.  Setting shutter speed to 50.  I know ISO should be in multiples of 160..does that hold true in HIGH ISO's?  What kind of ISO's am I looking for....at what fstops?

Again, this will be in various bars..some better lit than others, but none of them are going to be terribly bright, lots of neon signs, etc.  I do want to get that ambiance a bit, but I want to also be able to see my people in these....

Again, I'm going to try to go scout and take notes, but looking for suggestions from others as to what settings worked for them in similar situations to give me a good starting point!!

Thanks in advance,

cayenne

It only holds for internally processed stuff not for raw since whatever you gain in shadows you lose in highlights so those 160 ISOs and such are no different than just exposing the main ones 1/3 stop different. But with internally processed stuff it cooks a lot in and they never take full advantage of highlights anyway so for that they can be better.

Above ISO1600 or ISO3200, the former for all but a very few of the newest bodies, that rule doesn't even hold even for internally processed stuff though as everythng is just a straight push, for RAWs, at least for stills, underxposing ISO3200, although hard to work with in the field, can even do a touch better at times since you can save a bit more highlights.

Anyway a wild guess for the bar might be ISO1600, f/2, it really depends though since bars lighting varies a lot and it depends if you are shooting into a dark corner or onto lit bottles or someone at a bright spot at the counter, etc. it could vary two stops with ease.
 
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:51:31 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

cayenne

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2013, 03:24:02 PM »
I'm going to be helping do a shoot for a charity which involves a bar crawl here in New Orleans.

I'm using my 5D3....as per another thread I've had going, I may be renting a 50L f/1.2 lens to round out what I have:

70-200L f/288
85mm  f/1.8
17-40L f/4

I have the 24-1-5L f/4 kit lens too. I was thinking of taking the first three if I don't get the 50L, which I might, if I did...I might drop the 85mm..maybe?  I will need the 70-200 for earlier in the evening when shooting in daylight to balconies in Jackson Square...

Anyway, I'm going to try to get permission to shoot sample footage in the bars over the next week..but can someone give me some good numbers to try to shoot for so as to get good exposed footage, minimize noise?

I'm going for 24fps.  Setting shutter speed to 50.  I know ISO should be in multiples of 160..does that hold true in HIGH ISO's?  What kind of ISO's am I looking for....at what fstops?

Again, this will be in various bars..some better lit than others, but none of them are going to be terribly bright, lots of neon signs, etc.  I do want to get that ambiance a bit, but I want to also be able to see my people in these....

Again, I'm going to try to go scout and take notes, but looking for suggestions from others as to what settings worked for them in similar situations to give me a good starting point!!

Thanks in advance,

cayenne

It only holds for internally processed stuff not for raw since whatever you gain in shadows you lose in highlights so those 160 ISOs and such are no different than just exposing the main ones 1/3 stop different. But with internally processed stuff it cooks a lot in and they never take full advantage of highlights anyway so for that they can be better.

Above ISO1600 or ISO3200, the former for all but a very few of the newest bodies, that rule doesn't even hold even for internally processed stuff though as everythng is just a straight push, for RAWs, at least for stills, underxposing ISO3200, although hard to work with in the field, can even do a touch better at times since you can save a bit more highlights.

Anyway a wild guess for the bar might be ISO1600, f/2, it really depends though since bars lighting varies a lot and it depends if you are shooting into a dark corner or onto lit bottles or someone at a bright spot at the counter, etc. it could vary two stops with ease.

I don't have the Magic Lantern installed yet for RAW video....so, using the regular Canon HD video here, and thinking of trying to shoot it all with Marvels cinestyle...and doing color grading in Davinci Resolve.

I couldn't see much at 1600 ISO even at f/2...using shutter speed 50 (due to shooting 24fps).

cayenne

sjschall

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2013, 04:07:40 PM »
Quote
any suggestions for setting White Balance?

I like to keep it in the Kelvin setting when shooting video. Start at Tungsten (3200) and roll it warmer or cooler to get the look you want. That, or use something white and set it in-camera.

cayenne

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2013, 04:33:34 PM »
Quote
any suggestions for setting White Balance?

I like to keep it in the Kelvin setting when shooting video. Start at Tungsten (3200) and roll it warmer or cooler to get the look you want. That, or use something white and set it in-camera.

D'oh.....good idea!!

I would just have to video something at the beginning of filming at each venue...and use that to set WB for each in post.

I also just remembered, that I have one of those expo-discs I could shoot a still at each venue and use that still to set custom WB and that way, I'd not have to bother with WB setting of each set of shots in post for the most part.

Thanks!!  Man, I'm trying to remember so much to try to get this right on my first ever shoot for someone else. I'm not getting paid and it IS for charity, but this could be good advertisement for me if I do good, and again...it is for a good cause too!!

Thanks!!

C

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2013, 04:33:34 PM »

Dantana

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2013, 08:13:08 PM »
I'm curious if footage shot with such different ISO values will cut together well in post. I know this is doc style and not narrative, so you'll get a lot more leeway with the viewer, but I'm still curious.
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helpful

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2013, 10:44:12 PM »
Nailed both aperture and ISO on my first guess... f/4 and 12,800.

Of course, there's just my word for that fact, but I felt pretty good so I posted this worthless post anyway. Fun challenge!
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RGF

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2013, 01:04:20 AM »
If it were me, I would focus less on correct ISO and shutter speed and more on the story and the framing. What do you want your shots to say? It won't make a big difference at the end if your ISO was a multiple of 160 or not. Don't be afraid to break the rules, you may well have to in order to get the shot. A slower shutter speed will let in a lot more light, and, if the scenes don't have much movement, you'll never be able to tell 1/30th from 1/50th. On the other hand, shooting at 1/60th or 1/100th will accentuate motion, which is a cool look for dancing/sports/etc.

Also, you could bring a light along, which will do wonders. Have fun

Agree.  Technical correct could look sterile.  Be creative, if the story is strong, technical flaws will not be noticed (as much).

AJ

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2013, 01:55:01 AM »
Nailed both aperture and ISO on my first guess... f/4 and 12,800.

Of course, there's just my word for that fact, but I felt pretty good so I posted this worthless post anyway. Fun challenge!
Those settings sound about right to me.

To the OP: be careful with the 50/1.2  Narrow DOF can be nice for video with actors who move carefully with pre-planned motion.  But in the chaos of a pub crawl, you can end up with nothing but blur, giving your viewers a headache.  I'd be on the safe side - stop down.

cayenne

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 11:09:00 AM »
Nailed both aperture and ISO on my first guess... f/4 and 12,800.

Of course, there's just my word for that fact, but I felt pretty good so I posted this worthless post anyway. Fun challenge!
Those settings sound about right to me.

To the OP: be careful with the 50/1.2  Narrow DOF can be nice for video with actors who move carefully with pre-planned motion.  But in the chaos of a pub crawl, you can end up with nothing but blur, giving your viewers a headache.  I'd be on the safe side - stop down.

I will. But I figure at least I'll have it there if I want to use it.

Most of what I found that was really nice and bright was using f/2.8....so, guessing 2.8 and below will help me out of the most dark of the places we'll be hitting.

Tonight, Ihave to go through that footage and see what it looks like.

I shot some of it with Marvels Cine style, some with Canon Neutral, and some with Canon Standard.

I'm still not an expert with color correction, although I'm getting better....I'm needing to decide if I want to risk it with shooting it all in a very "flat" style and correcting it all in post, or taking what I can get out of the camera.

i'm leaning towards flat style...since if I mess up in the confusion, forget to set a good custom WB...I'll have slightly more leeway in POST to correct any problems that I'm sure I'll run into with all that will be going on.

Not to mention, it now looks like a very high chance of rain storms in the area, so that's one more thing I"ll have to worry about. I guess I'll wrap my camera bag in a large trash bag to protect from rain while walking between venues, and carry an umbrella in addition to my sling bag (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007234626/ref=oh_details_o09_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )    and monopod.

Ugh...

This is going to prove to be very interesting....

cayenne

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Re: 5D3 Shooting in a bar at night: What ISO, Fstop would you guess?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2013, 11:09:00 AM »