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Author Topic: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's  (Read 5659 times)

thearsenal

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Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« on: October 06, 2013, 05:48:40 AM »


Hi,

I've taken this picture at a judo tournament using a Canon 50D with a Canon 24-70 f/2.8 (mark I). I had to shoot at ISO 3200 because of the bad light. This adds a lot of noise to the picture.

I'm mainly shooting football (a.k.a. soccer) and judo pictures. I'm thinking of buying the Canon 70D. I hope the noise will be less at higher ISO values. I also like the fact that it's faster than the 50D.

I would like to hear from you if the 70D is a big improvement coming from the 50D or that I'm better of buying a lens with a bigger aperture.

Thank you,

Hans

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Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« on: October 06, 2013, 05:48:40 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2013, 07:39:53 AM »
If you shoot in RAW, you'll see very little improvement in the high ISO noise - I expect you'd need to look at a FF body for the improvement you seek.

A faster lens would be better, but you'll lose the flexibility of a zoom, and may not have enough DoF at really wide apertures.

Unfortunately, there's no easy (or cheap!) solution. 
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jdramirez

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2013, 07:56:50 AM »
I thought the 60/70D were better with grain at higher iso's... I am probably wrong about that though.

I'd suggest getting the white balance right.  Get a white styrofoam cup and when in post, put the white balance dropper on the cup.  It does a really nice job of getting the right white balance.

Once you o that... I'd also suggest a faster lens.  There are some decent options like the 100mm f/2 or an 85mm f/1.8 that you can shoot wide open and still get solid results. 

Also... are you allowed flash.  Because that combined with HSS would be helpful.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2013, 08:13:22 AM »
Whilst I agree with Neuro, a ff camera is going to give you a couple of stops less noise, I would point out there is a different route.

I just cleaned this up in Topaz DeNoise 5, modern software has given us a couple more stops of usable iso and is a lot cheaper than a new camera!

Also I did the white balance on the doors as they are far enough away from the red mat to not get the bad colour reflection the fighters have, a good case for B&W!
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 09:46:12 AM by privatebydesign »
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ajfotofilmagem

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2013, 09:22:34 AM »
I see two different possibilities for upgrade your 50D. 8) Either you invest in 5D mark III as 6D has inappropriate AF for fast sports. 8) Or you get a little better ISO capability with 70D, and a little more with 85mm F1.8. ;) The combination 70D + 85mm still costs less than 5D mark III.  ::)
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 11:08:31 AM by ajfotofilmagem »

thearsenal

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2013, 02:53:40 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions.

I was already afraid that there are no cheap solutions. Although I would like to buy a 5D mark III. I'm afraid, my wife won't let me.  ;)

I always shoot with auto white balance. I'll try to find out how to manually determine and select the right white balance.

I like the results achieved with Topaz DeNoise. I will look into that.

I've read that using flash is usually not allowed because it might distract the players. That's why I don't use my flash.

I guess it depends on the level of the event. At this tournament, I saw someone from the judo-club that organized the tournament use a flash. I could have used mine as well.

jdramirez

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 08:42:43 AM »
I know that is the reflection  coming off the mat,  but I still want to fix that.   I'd rather the people be in correct white balance than the doors  even if it doesn't reflect reality. 

 what is nice about shooting indoors is you can adjust your settings once and not have to worry about cloud coverage  completely changing your  changing your shutter speed and white balance.

I presume you are shooting in raw ands using light room. 
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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 08:42:43 AM »

KKCFamilyman

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 08:59:15 AM »
I would say the 6d is an option over the 70d if your looking for cleaner high iso performance. If you stick with the center point af then you should be ok for the scene you posted.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 09:06:25 AM by KKCFamilyman »
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privatebydesign

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 09:14:25 AM »
I know that is the reflection  coming off the mat,  but I still want to fix that.   I'd rather the people be in correct white balance than the doors  even if it doesn't reflect reality. 

 what is nice about shooting indoors is you can adjust your settings once and not have to worry about cloud coverage  completely changing your  changing your shutter speed and white balance.

I presume you are shooting in raw ands using light room.

The problem with the reflection is that it is not a WB issue, it is a selective colour cast issue and is not fixable without a selection. The point of taking the WB off the doors, it is just normalising the overall colour, including the tops of the fighters.

But anyway, for individual images the quick select tool makes a short enough job of basic tasks like this, but I'd hate to have to do an entire event!
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jdramirez

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2013, 09:31:33 AM »
I know that is the reflection  coming off the mat,  but I still want to fix that.   I'd rather the people be in correct white balance than the doors  even if it doesn't reflect reality. 

 what is nice about shooting indoors is you can adjust your settings once and not have to worry about cloud coverage  completely changing your  changing your shutter speed and white balance.

I presume you are shooting in raw ands using light room.

The problem with the reflection is that it is not a WB issue, it is a selective colour cast issue and is not fixable without a selection. The point of taking the WB off the doors, it is just normalising the overall colour, including the tops of the fighters.

But anyway, for individual images the quick select tool makes a short enough job of basic tasks like this, but I'd hate to have to do an entire event!

I  don't believe I'm familiar with the  quick select tool,  or is that the paint brush over the two and then adjusting the saturation over the white?

I probably should go and watch me how to video again...
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Northstar

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2013, 09:35:49 AM »


Hi,

I've taken this picture at a judo tournament using a Canon 50D with a Canon 24-70 f/2.8 (mark I). I had to shoot at ISO 3200 because of the bad light. This adds a lot of noise to the picture.

I'm mainly shooting football (a.k.a. soccer) and judo pictures. I'm thinking of buying the Canon 70D. I hope the noise will be less at higher ISO values. I also like the fact that it's faster than the 50D.

I would like to hear from you if the 70D is a big improvement coming from the 50D or that I'm better of buying a lens with a bigger aperture.

Thank you,

Hans

Agree with others that you won't get much high iSO improvement going from a 50 to 70.   the new 6d would get you roughly 1 1/2 stops of high ISO improvement over the 50 d....for not that much more than a the cost of a 70d.

Buying a 50 or 85 prime and shooting at f2 would get you 1 stop of improvement.

I would get the lens and save for the body.   The 85 1.8 is a good lens choice for indoor sports like this.
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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2013, 10:02:07 AM »
If you like, here's my thing on volleyball photography which would apply to any indoor sport; I would think:

http://corysteiner.blogspot.com/2012/08/guide-to-taking-volleyball-pictures.html
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privatebydesign

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 10:10:59 AM »

I  don't believe I'm familiar with the  quick select tool,  or is that the paint brush over the two and then adjusting the saturation over the white?

I probably should go and watch me how to video again...

It is here in PS, often hiding behind the Magic Wand tool.
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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2013, 10:10:59 AM »

jdramirez

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2013, 10:49:46 AM »

I  don't believe I'm familiar with the  quick select tool,  or is that the paint brush over the two and then adjusting the saturation over the white?

I probably should go and watch me how to video again...

It is here in PS, often hiding behind the Magic Wand tool.

I don't use photo shop... but I used to back in the 90's...  I'm guessing things have   improved since Clinton was in office.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

privatebydesign

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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 10:56:20 AM »

I don't use photo shop... but I used to back in the 90's...  I'm guessing things have   improved since Clinton was in office.
With regards photo editing software, yes, question remains open on many other subjects though  ;)
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Re: Advice on low light indoor sports photo's
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2013, 10:56:20 AM »