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Author Topic: Sensor production  (Read 3347 times)

endiendo

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Sensor production
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:22:20 PM »
Today, I have seen a news telling that Intel will open its fabrication-units (and technologies) to other companies.
Intel is the most technologically advance in producing semi-conductor, and will go with the 14nm technology very soon.
As I have understood, canon sensor are made > 100 nm.
And, 14,22, or 32 nm, the electronic will be faster, more energy-saver.

I wonder if Canon would - one day - make their sensor produced by a third party company...

Any ideas or rumors ?
photo amateur since 2004.
Canon 5d mark iii, canon 24-105 f4 L, canon 100 mm f2.8 macro L, canon 17-40 f4 L, sigma 120-300 f2.8 dg os hsm, canon ef 50 f1.8 II

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Sensor production
« on: November 28, 2013, 01:22:20 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 01:37:31 PM »
Canon prides themselves on making sensors in house, and that is unlikely to change.  They are expanding production.  Its cheaper that way.  Producing a large DSLR sensor is different from producing the tiny computer chips that Intel makes.
 
Canon also produces the equipment to manufacture sensors and computer chips, so they can custom make their own equipment, they just have not yet decided to go to a new process, but it is said to be imminent.
 
Canon is making money while others are losing mostly because they are conservative and only make changes when there is a handsome payback.  They are in the process of switching to 100% robotic camera assembly, so we can be certain that they believe that there will be a big payback.  A new sensor packaging design has already been developed and is used in the SL1.  Its probably robotic friendly and soon all Canon cameras will use it.

kaihp

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2013, 02:41:39 AM »
Intel's fabs are geared towards digital logic designs (processors, GPUs, chipsets, flash), not sensors.

Fabs are optimized towards specific uses, so trying to put a light sensor is not likely to be feasible. As an example, significant leakage currents can be accepted in a digital process, whereas the same leakage would leave an analogue circuit heavily compromised: A/D resolution, noise, dynamic range would all be impacted.

As Mt Spokane is pointing out, the digital IC are "tiny" - preferably below 100 mm^2. Compare this with the 864 mm^2 area needed just for the sensor array in a FF sensor (just the pad ring is likely to rack up another 25+ mm^2).

endiendo

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 01:05:17 AM »
thank you for these infos.
photo amateur since 2004.
Canon 5d mark iii, canon 24-105 f4 L, canon 100 mm f2.8 macro L, canon 17-40 f4 L, sigma 120-300 f2.8 dg os hsm, canon ef 50 f1.8 II

Don Haines

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 10:19:13 AM »
Canon prides themselves on making sensors in house, and that is unlikely to change.  They are expanding production.  Its cheaper that way.  Producing a large DSLR sensor is different from producing the tiny computer chips that Intel makes.
 
Canon also produces the equipment to manufacture sensors and computer chips, so they can custom make their own equipment, they just have not yet decided to go to a new process, but it is said to be imminent.
 
Canon is making money while others are losing mostly because they are conservative and only make changes when there is a handsome payback.  They are in the process of switching to 100% robotic camera assembly, so we can be certain that they believe that there will be a big payback.  A new sensor packaging design has already been developed and is used in the SL1.  Its probably robotic friendly and soon all Canon cameras will use it.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Canon had already gone to newer and finer technology for it's p/s sensors.... To me, that indicates that the move is already underway.

Does anyone know what technology is used in the fabrication of the 70D sensor? I would have guessed that the radical change to dual-pixel would have been the logical time to change processes.....
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 12:19:54 PM »
Canon prides themselves on making sensors in house, and that is unlikely to change.  They are expanding production.  Its cheaper that way.  Producing a large DSLR sensor is different from producing the tiny computer chips that Intel makes.
 
Canon also produces the equipment to manufacture sensors and computer chips, so they can custom make their own equipment, they just have not yet decided to go to a new process, but it is said to be imminent.
 
Canon is making money while others are losing mostly because they are conservative and only make changes when there is a handsome payback.  They are in the process of switching to 100% robotic camera assembly, so we can be certain that they believe that there will be a big payback.  A new sensor packaging design has already been developed and is used in the SL1.  Its probably robotic friendly and soon all Canon cameras will use it.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Canon had already gone to newer and finer technology for it's p/s sensors.... To me, that indicates that the move is already underway.

Does anyone know what technology is used in the fabrication of the 70D sensor? I would have guessed that the radical change to dual-pixel would have been the logical time to change processes.....

So far all I hear is Rumors, they might in fact have changed already, but someone like chipworks usually catches it.  Since they did not put out a article on it, I expect it is the same technology, but no one is saying.

photonius

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 03:48:21 PM »
Canon prides themselves on making sensors in house, and that is unlikely to change.  They are expanding production.  Its cheaper that way.  Producing a large DSLR sensor is different from producing the tiny computer chips that Intel makes.
 
Canon also produces the equipment to manufacture sensors and computer chips, so they can custom make their own equipment, they just have not yet decided to go to a new process, but it is said to be imminent.
 
Canon is making money while others are losing mostly because they are conservative and only make changes when there is a handsome payback.  They are in the process of switching to 100% robotic camera assembly, so we can be certain that they believe that there will be a big payback.  A new sensor packaging design has already been developed and is used in the SL1.  Its probably robotic friendly and soon all Canon cameras will use it.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the impression that Canon had already gone to newer and finer technology for it's p/s sensors.... To me, that indicates that the move is already underway.

Does anyone know what technology is used in the fabrication of the 70D sensor? I would have guessed that the radical change to dual-pixel would have been the logical time to change processes.....

So far all I hear is Rumors, they might in fact have changed already, but someone like chipworks usually catches it.  Since they did not put out a article on it, I expect it is the same technology, but no one is saying.

hmm, seems chipworks did do a report on August.
canon's sensor is LC1290A CMOS

https://www.chipworks.com/TOC/Canon_LC1290A_EOS_70D_CIS_IPR-1308-801_TOC.pdf

 16'000 US$ for the full report but they don't allow data release yet  :-\   maybe they will publish an own summary report eventually

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Re: Sensor production
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 03:48:21 PM »