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Author Topic: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]  (Read 89504 times)

J.R.

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2013, 09:39:25 AM »
Gentlemen, please step back from the brink..... a lot of you are getting way to personall and it would be a shame if the moderators had to step in.

I value all civil voices and like to hear both sides of the debate, but only when it is civil. When you resort to name calling and taunting each other, anything good that you have to say gets lost in the noise.

Take a deep breath, count to 10, go take some pictures, whatever.... let us restore our sanity.

+1 ... Well said. I agree
I took a hiatus from CR for a year and a half. The discussions haven't changed much. Excellent information is still being shared while people bitching about Canon cameras are still bitching and haven't moved on to Sony

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #135 on: December 02, 2013, 09:39:25 AM »

traveller

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #136 on: December 02, 2013, 09:49:27 AM »
Gentlemen, please step back from the brink..... a lot of you are getting way to personall and it would be a shame if the moderators had to step in.

I value all civil voices and like to hear both sides of the debate, but only when it is civil. When you resort to name calling and taunting each other, anything good that you have to say gets lost in the noise.

Take a deep breath, count to 10, go take some pictures, whatever.... let us restore our sanity.

+1 ... Well said. I agree

This topic is now ruined by this argument: I haven't read it all, because I really don't care about its contents. It's a shame, because it puts people off posting who might have something genuinely interesting to write...

Woody

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #137 on: December 02, 2013, 09:50:56 AM »
All this fuss over some CR1 rumor from NL? ;D Not worth it, ya?

Orangutan

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #138 on: December 02, 2013, 09:56:43 AM »
I think I see one of the problems here:

First, dilbert wants the right to insult others, yet objects when others offer retorts.

Second, eml58 did not call dilbert an "immature 10 year old," he suggested that his reaction was something to be expected from an "immature 10 year old."  There is a difference: the latter is directed at the specific behavior/incident; the former attacks the person.  It's legitimate to critique specific behavior; however, except in unusual circumstances, we don't know each other well enough to offer opinions on the whole person.

If I take it to be a veiled insult (as did jrista), isn't that enough to make it so?
Or are you seeking to define the rules differently for different people?
Surely it matters not what is said or how but how the target of the comment perceives it, yes?

That's a legitimate question, and the answer is "sometimes."  Yes, criticizing behavior can sometimes be a proxy for an insult to the person; however, there needs to be a way to criticize the behavior without ad hominem.  In forums like this we don't have access to non-verbal cues that could remove the ambiguity (not to mention language differences, misbehaving auto-correct features and haste) I'd suggest that it's preferable to err on the side of tolerance. 

So no, I'm not seeking to define "rules," but I'm also noting that anyone who looks for insults will find them, whether they were intended or not.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #139 on: December 02, 2013, 10:17:28 AM »
...
I'm sure I won't be doing that regardless of who took them because an image might mean nothing to you but may mean the world to the person who made it. Nevertheless, IMHO it is poor form to call someone's images junk while not posting your own.

Does a movie critic need to make their own movie in order to comment on a movie?
Do food critics need to offer up their own food in order to be accepted?
And so on.
The world is full of people offering up opinions on whatever without providing their own for comment on just about every topic imaginable. Get over it.
[/quote]

What i don't get is that your thick skinned enough to put yourself out there in a discussion like this, but not to put your images out there. 
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jrista

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #140 on: December 02, 2013, 12:51:30 PM »
+1 ... why should we "just rip" someone's photos "to shreds"?

Because that is the nature of pack animals.

Seriously? Insulting just one of us wasn't enough, so now you have to insult the whole lot of us by calling us "pack animals"?

You have lost all credibility. You've fallen back on the most baser level of animalistic instincts yourself here, and stooped to the lowest level. There is nothing more to say to you.

I encourage everyon to ignore Dilbert, either figuratively or literally via this forums ignore feature, and get back to the original topic of discussion. Because this man is NOT worth responding to.

sanj

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #141 on: December 02, 2013, 10:35:59 PM »
What i don't get is that your thick skinned enough to put yourself out there in a discussion like this, but not to put your images out there.

Maybe *I* don't think highly enough of them to post.

it is ok, relax. We all feel insecure about our work. But it is important to share photos and get into healthy discussions to open up and grow. If we all wait for just the best of the best before posting, we may never ever post.

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #141 on: December 02, 2013, 10:35:59 PM »

Zv

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #142 on: December 03, 2013, 01:36:14 AM »
I had to go back 4 pages to catch up on this latest CR drama!

Still not sure what sparked it, was it Dilbert's DR graphs? Then some talk of RAW files and color and then a snide comment about Jrista's photos and here we are!

I have to say the outlook doesn't look to good for our antagonist, Mr Dilbert! I'm sure he's a nice fellow an all but come on, seriously, don't be dissin other peoples work. That's not cool. You'd have to be extremely talented (even then it's so not cool) to offer criticism like that without backing it up with evidence of your experience. And experience can be taking pictures, working as an editor etc etc. so if you are such an expert shouldn't you offer constructive advice?   

But whatever, carry on this is amusing and it distracts me from work which is very boring right now! Haha!   ;)
Move along nothing to see here!

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #143 on: December 03, 2013, 02:06:54 AM »
+1 ... why should we "just rip" someone's photos "to shreds"?

Because that is the nature of pack animals.

Seriously? Insulting just one of us wasn't enough, so now you have to insult the whole lot of us by calling us "pack animals"?

You have lost all credibility. You've fallen back on the most baser level of animalistic instincts yourself here, and stooped to the lowest level. There is nothing more to say to you.

I encourage everyon to ignore Dilbert, either figuratively or literally via this forums ignore feature, and get back to the original topic of discussion. Because this man is NOT worth responding to.
On second thoughts (after I had a chance to step back and cool down a bit) I don't think its a nice thing to ignore someone because of a comment we feel is rude ... but I've said/done a lot of things in life that I'm not particularly proud of, but God has still been kind to me and am glad that people who I've wronged did not ignore me. I would ignore a pervert or a stalker but not a long time forum members who does have some valid points at times, who knows if we were to meet him personally we might all get along famously. OK, I'm not giving a lecture to any one, this is for me personally ... just "thinking out loud".
jrista, for the record, I still feel strongly that, what dilbert said was not cool ... but what I said wouldn't be considered cool either. I come to CR to learn and maybe share whatever little that I know ... I've always learned a great deal from the photos you post and I'm glad you post them.
Hey dilbert, no hard feelings man, nothing personal ... but try and be nice to us sometimes :) Cheers and have a good day.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 02:08:40 AM by Rienzphotoz »
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jrista

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #144 on: December 03, 2013, 03:42:05 AM »
+1 ... why should we "just rip" someone's photos "to shreds"?

Because that is the nature of pack animals.

Seriously? Insulting just one of us wasn't enough, so now you have to insult the whole lot of us by calling us "pack animals"?

You have lost all credibility. You've fallen back on the most baser level of animalistic instincts yourself here, and stooped to the lowest level. There is nothing more to say to you.

I encourage everyon to ignore Dilbert, either figuratively or literally via this forums ignore feature, and get back to the original topic of discussion. Because this man is NOT worth responding to.
On second thoughts (after I had a chance to step back and cool down a bit) I don't think its a nice thing to ignore someone because of a comment we feel is rude ... but I've said/done a lot of things in life that I'm not particularly proud of, but God has still been kind to me and am glad that people who I've wronged did not ignore me. I would ignore a pervert or a stalker but not a long time forum members who does have some valid points at times, who knows if we were to meet him personally we might all get along famously. OK, I'm not giving a lecture to any one, this is for me personally ... just "thinking out loud".
jrista, for the record, I still feel strongly that, what dilbert said was not cool ... but what I said wouldn't be considered cool either. I come to CR to learn and maybe share whatever little that I know ... I've always learned a great deal from the photos you post and I'm glad you post them.
Hey dilbert, no hard feelings man, nothing personal ... but try and be nice to us sometimes :) Cheers and have a good day.

To be honest, I really don't care if someone thinks my work is junk. Dilbert is free to have his opinions.

The thing that really ticked me off was him calling the whole lot of us "pack animals". That is pretty low, a blatantly and intentionally rude jab, the kind of thing a child usually does when they lose an argument.

Sorry that it made me angry...but it made me angry. Your response here is dead on, and very commendable. Honorable and reasonable. I truly applaud your will. ;)

I debate because I want people to have truthful information to work with, not because I have any kind of personal vendetta (although I'll happily admit I really personally despised Mikael...that guy was the epitome of a narcissistic, arrogant antagonist who seemed to have an unhealthy attachment to dynamic range..........I can't say how much I'm glad he's gone...) When people stoop to childish lows and start making things personal and insulting, or try to evade a reasonable discussion about facts vs. conjecture with snide and rude remarks, it really irks me. It's uncalled for, it doesn't help anyone, and it derails topics like this.

I can't say I'll ever stop trying to keep the facts honest. And I mean facts...people are free to rumormonger and share their wish lists and the like, but I'll probably always step in when someone gets going about how canon equipment "sucks" because they don't have the absolute best of the best top notch world dominating drguzzling sensor on the market, or how they can't even compete anymore because they are dominated by the marketing monster or crap like that. When people like dilbert start flinging around global insults, sorry...but that isn't acceptable. He can insult me personally all he wants, I'm happy to let all that slide off my back (although I might point it out...very powerful debating tool that, when someone decouples their responses from the argument and gets personal. ;P)

It just isn't right to call everyone animals when you lose an argument...  >:(



Anyway...as for the topic at hand.

I like Canon to take their time. As it has a positive effect on their next product tech wise. I won't be in the game for a 5DIV. The 5D3 still remains more camera than I ever can handle properly  8) So as improved high ISOs beyond 25k are my main interest, I will be glad to see the 5DIV's specs which will kinda forecast what the 5DV will be based on. 1/2 a stop to a full stop better high ISO by 2018 would be a tremendous leap for the 5DV. Till then I am well equipped. Still working on my first 10k frames with the 5D3.

This was my last favorite comment from this thread. I totally agree...Canon can take their time on the 5D IV and 1D neXt. Far too early to replace those cameras. I suspect the big camera Canon will be at least announcing next year will be the big megapixel camera...the 1Ds X or whatever then end up naming it. The landscape and studio photography camera.

Personally, I hope it gets the following (this would be my wish list for the 1Ds X):

  • 180nm sensor fab process, 60% Q.E.
  • 46mp (8350x5567) or 54mp (9000x6000)
  • 16-bit on-die parallel ADC (3e- flat read noise)
  • 15+ stops DR
  • ISO 52100
  • 1D X meter and AF system
  • 61pt AF unit
  • 5fps frame rate (FF), 7fps (APS-H cropped), 9fps (APS-C cropped)
  • Integrated intervalometer, 9999 max frame count, configurable inter-frame delay, configurable pre-start delay, manual mode or bulb mode support, bulb-ramping
  • Price not to exceed $6,999

 :D
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 03:53:25 AM by jrista »

Rienzphotoz

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #145 on: December 03, 2013, 04:04:32 AM »
I like Canon to take their time. As it has a positive effect on their next product tech wise. I won't be in the game for a 5DIV. The 5D3 still remains more camera than I ever can handle properly  8) So as improved high ISOs beyond 25k are my main interest, I will be glad to see the 5DIV's specs which will kinda forecast what the 5DV will be based on. 1/2 a stop to a full stop better high ISO by 2018 would be a tremendous leap for the 5DV. Till then I am well equipped. Still working on my first 10k frames with the 5D3.

This was my last favorite comment from this thread. I totally agree...Canon can take their time on the 5D IV and 1D neXt. Far too early to replace those cameras. I suspect the big camera Canon will be at least announcing next year will be the big megapixel camera...the 1Ds X or whatever then end up naming it. The landscape and studio photography camera.
+1 ... I totally agree!
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

neuroanatomist

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #146 on: December 03, 2013, 10:32:15 AM »
I don´t need to talk about new gear because I have it.

I see that our dear friend, M.ST, has left our tight-knit little community.  How very, very sad.   No more will we get to hear about the great performance of the 1D Xs MkIII and 5D MkVIII bodies that he's been using for years now…

Unless, of course, he turns up again like some other bad pennies have been doing…   ::)
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
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Mitch.Conner

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #147 on: December 03, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »
I'm relatively new, so I don't know about the forum dynamics/politics/etc., but in my short time as a member I've seen a lot of negativity on this board.   :(  Not sure what to make of it, exactly, but it's discouraging.

As for the topic.  I'm reluctant to believe that the 5DIII will get upgraded to a 5DIV next year.  I see 2015 being the year for that.  Especially as Magic Lantern is getting more and more attention and Canon can milk an existing product that appeals to budget-minded aspiring film-makers.  As I understand it, right now the 5DIII is the top-dog for Magic Lantern given that they're hesitant to touch the 1Dx after getting threatened with legal action (which IMO Canon would have a difficulty following through with if you are familiar with the cases Sega Enterprises v. Accolade Inc., 977 F.2d 1510 (9th Cir. 1992) and Sony Computer Entertainment v. Connectix Corp., 203 F.3d 596 (9th Cir. 2000) - even though these cases are both from the 9th circuit).

However, more full-frame cameras is otherwise great news to me.  I think it will result in more lenses designed with full-frame users in mind.  I might be wrong there, but that's how I view it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 12:30:38 PM by Mitch.Conner »

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #147 on: December 03, 2013, 12:27:58 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #148 on: December 03, 2013, 01:10:31 PM »
not sure if this could happen, but...

2 FF bodies rumored, but not a 5d4 and not a split to the 1d line...

Many have said it could be a 6d2... I think this is very logical because its entry level which if it follows the pattern of other entry level products, 1-2 year cycle, so the 6d2 could very well be one of the new FF bodies..

the second...

how about this as an idea --- a 5dS perhaps?  what else would they name a big mp studio camera that isn't 1 series?  2D?  doubt it...3d...everyone says that won't happen... a 4D???/ maybe...5 is out, 6 is out, 7 is out...and I doubt they'd make an 8d or a 9d because that would be really confusing...
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

traveller

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #149 on: December 03, 2013, 01:13:26 PM »

This was my last favorite comment from this thread. I totally agree...Canon can take their time on the 5D IV and 1D neXt. Far too early to replace those cameras. I suspect the big camera Canon will be at least announcing next year will be the big megapixel camera...the 1Ds X or whatever then end up naming it. The landscape and studio photography camera.

Personally, I hope it gets the following (this would be my wish list for the 1Ds X):

  • 180nm sensor fab process, 60% Q.E.
  • 46mp (8350x5567) or 54mp (9000x6000)
  • 16-bit on-die parallel ADC (3e- flat read noise)
  • 15+ stops DR
  • ISO 52100
  • 1D X meter and AF system
  • 61pt AF unit
  • 5fps frame rate (FF), 7fps (APS-H cropped), 9fps (APS-C cropped)
  • Integrated intervalometer, 9999 max frame count, configurable inter-frame delay, configurable pre-start delay, manual mode or bulb mode support, bulb-ramping
  • Price not to exceed $6,999

 :D

Finally, we're back on topic (fingers crossed!).

I notice that there's a rumour over on SAR that Sony has a 54MP full frame sensor in the pipeline, but at the moment it's too expensive to produce.

http://www.+++++++++++.com/sr4-54-megapixel-2/

There's probably some truth in this, as SAR is effectively an unofficial informal channel for Sony's marketing department! I wonder if they'll sell it to Nikon first for the rumoured (far higher price point) D4x? We may even see this sensor tech make it into the next generation of Hasselblads...http://www.+++++++++++.com/sr4-hasselblad-and-sony-to-make-a-joint-sensor-announcement/

Canon must be doing something similar; maybe they're having cost/yield issues as well?

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Re: Two New Full Frame Cameras in 2014? [CR1]
« Reply #149 on: December 03, 2013, 01:13:26 PM »