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Author Topic: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy  (Read 7857 times)

trof2

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 03:13:01 PM »
.
The following formula solved my problem with regard to Canon printers and their ink "issue."

1. Find alternative ways to print. I've found several that do not cause me to own a printer.

2. Favorably describe your printer in a posting on Craig's List.

3. When the CL buyer hands you a $50 bill, hand him the printer.

4. Use part of the $50 for a bottle of good bourbon.

5. Problem solved.

I'm glad the damn thing is gone and haven't missed it for even one minute.

I think I will follow your example.  I should take a look at the market price... My hunch is that I could get at least $150 for it with some paper and extras.  Bourbon x 3  :)

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 03:13:01 PM »

iam2nd

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2013, 03:38:35 PM »
...
Based on my observations, I have arrived at the following hypotheses:
1.  Every time the printer does its stupid buzzing and clicking cleaning cycle, it actually sprays geysers of color like Ron Jeremy after eating a kilo of Skittles.
2.  My printer heads may dry out periodically because of low humidity or something, and the printer decides to flush the contents of its cartridges to get anything through.
3.  The ink evaporates.
4.  Canon deliberately programmed this thing to engage in ink wasting cycles other than printing my photography or timed the cartridges to deplete after a certain period of time.

I'm curious if anyone in this community has ever experienced anything of the sort, and what you have done to remedy this.

Definitely #1, and perhaps a bit of #4 (but it would be all companies and not just Canon).

Inside virtually all inkjet printers is an absorbing pad that sits under the ink cartridges when they are in the "home" position.  Under that pad is rubber tubing that leads to a pump (some types resemble a kidney dialysis machine pump).  Yep, there's a real mechanical pump in there, and it sucks away the ink that's spewed out when you turn on the printer, and when it runs it's scheduled cleaning cycle, into a little reservoir.

As a few others said, try leaving the printer on, and disable any self-cleaning options if available.

Only one thing with printers has frustrated me more, and that was a Kodak all-in-wonder printer I used to have.  In their infinite wisdom, the engineers decided to NOT allow printing in only black&white when even a single color ink was out, even when B&W was selected in the print options.  AND... here's the kicker, it wouldn't even let you SCAN a document if ink was out; the software simply showed the error and returned an error back to the print driver.  Needless to say, I have not bought another Kodak printer.

danski0224

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2013, 03:55:15 PM »
There is no savings printing with the 9000 over taking photos to a lab.

The only reason to use it is convenience and if you want to control the output of your work.
The 9000 gives better results than my local labs. If those reasons do not justify the cost of the ink, take your stuff to a lab and avoid the stress.


Cost wise;
On small prints it will cost you more to use the 9000 than the labs.
Large prints it balances out somewhat.

AND; Stop printing text, it is an incredible waste of money.

Well, I got my Pro-10 because I wanted to print stuff at home, and I picked it up with a rebate, so the price was good. I have been printing non-photo items on a laser printer for a long time.

First few prints were pretty rough with an uncalibrated monitor and no additional adjustments. I didn't get what I saw, so that would have been interesting if I outsourced the print.

I was kind of hoping it would be a wash with compared to farming stuff out, but I'm not sure. I do have oodles of paper now...  :o ::)

Who knows, maybe it will come down to getting rid of it, or limit the size to 4 x 6 (maybe 5 x 7) for proofing and farm out bigger prints. My internet connection sucks, so uploading big files is an issue.

A 4 x 6 print is 24 square inches, 8 x 11 is 88 square inches and a 13 x 19 is 247 square inches. I guess the use of ink makes sense in those terms.
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privatebydesign

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2013, 04:31:51 PM »
I did an extensive cost analysis when I got my Epson 4900.

Ink usage works out at 0.01 ml per in², I pay around $0.50 per ml for genuine ink. I use Epson Premium Lustre roll paper from their Signature range it costs $0.0036 per in².

A 16" x 24" print that I make costs me $1.92 in ink and $1.38 in paper. $3.30 for a high quality 16" x  24" print that I have complete control in making, of course if you factor in time and the printer cost, $1,145, but offset that against printer resale value (around $800) and the fact that I like printing, I still end up with pretty reasonably priced prints.
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ablearcher

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2013, 07:52:08 PM »
I have the 9000 and a smaller one MP630 (?) Yes, printing at home is bloody expensive. But I can't take every shot I want/need to print to the lab. There are some on the artsy/wild side which clients prefer to be done "in-house". And every time i bring them 13x19 metallic or art rag paper print after their glam session - they do go WOW. These prints cost them, but they already know that. So it is a win-win. I don't need the printer for regular clients.  ;D

Also, all the labs i use are in the US (I'm in Canada). So there is always that delivery $$ issue. If I don't have a lot to order (say just a print or two for framing) then paying $50 and waiting does not make a lot of sense. But yes, I still use the labs for bulk orders.

Printer is just a tool - so you either need it or not. Just like anything else.

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rpt

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2013, 09:02:42 PM »
Printer is just a tool - so you either need it or not. Just like anything else.
Nail on the head man!

dtaylor

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 06:51:28 AM »
If you want the advantages of home printing, take a look at Epson's 3880. It's part of their professional line and big enough to overcome the major disadvantages with home photo ink jets, but still small enough to be manageable (space; ink cost and usage) for a home user.

* The carts are big. I can print sheet after sheet, 17x22, and the ink levels barely budge. (Cost per print is about even with labs for 8x10 and cheaper for larger sizes, assuming paper of similar quality.)

* I've literally gone months without printing only to power up, hear the printer run a single auto clean cycle, and print a perfect test sheet. It just doesn't clog.

* It seems to actually track time and sheets printed and auto clean when it needs to, not just because you powered off for a few minutes. I've never kept track to know what the triggers are, but I've also never had the impression it was wasting ink.

* Even when it warns that a cart is low, you keep printing. There's probably a dozen or more 16x20's left in the cart. You can change carts mid-print without affecting the print, so you just keep going until it asks for a new cart.

* Changing a cart does not touch the ink levels in the other carts. Only the changed line is primed. Most ink jets prime every line once a single cart is changed which defeats the whole purpose of individual carts and is a big part of the reason why ink disappears into a void.

* IQ, paper choices, longevity...all top of the line. At the 2nd best resolution setting (1440 instead of 2880) this printer will put lab prints to shame.

I should note that I do not and would not use my 3880 for anything but photos. I have a separate, cheap ink jet for text.

The only drawback is that the glossy and matte blacks share a line, so if you change paper types you lose some ink (a few bucks worth). So you need to batch your prints by type. But the printer performs so well...and the carts last so long...that this is hardly worth complaining about.

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2013, 06:51:28 AM »

danski0224

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2013, 08:00:37 AM »

* Even when it warns that a cart is low, you keep printing. There's probably a dozen or more 16x20's left in the cart. You can change carts mid-print without affecting the print, so you just keep going until it asks for a new cart.

* Changing a cart does not touch the ink levels in the other carts. Only the changed line is primed. Most ink jets prime every line once a single cart is changed which defeats the whole purpose of individual carts and is a big part of the reason why ink disappears into a void.

The only drawback is that the glossy and matte blacks share a line, so if you change paper types you lose some ink (a few bucks worth). So you need to batch your prints by type. But the printer performs so well...and the carts last so long...that this is hardly worth complaining about.

I have a feeling that the Pro-10 doesn't have "hot swappable" ink tanks.

I have also been wondering if all inks are primed when one tank is replaced. I haven't been able to find any support in the manual yet.

Is there an Epson that shares the strong points outlined in your posting but doesn't require a change of black ink for glossy/matte?
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dtaylor

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2013, 01:55:47 AM »
I have a feeling that the Pro-10 doesn't have "hot swappable" ink tanks.

I have also been wondering if all inks are primed when one tank is replaced. I haven't been able to find any support in the manual yet.

Is there an Epson that shares the strong points outlined in your posting but doesn't require a change of black ink for glossy/matte?

I don't know why Epson does this, but I think even the 4900 and above share a line for matte and glossy black. Keep in mind that you do not physically swap the carts. Both blacks stay in the printer. If there's a paper type switch the printer will flush and prime the line.

According to the Epson 3800 FAQ at http://people.csail.mit.edu/ericchan/dp/Epson3800/faq.html#swap_pk_mk swapping to matte costs $0.85 cents and swapping to photo (glossy) costs $2.25. Enough to make you think about your printing and batch prints, but not enough to get upset over if you need to switch back and forth a couple times to meet a deadline.

The positives completely eclipse this one annoyance. I guarantee you other printers waste more ink $$$ with their stupid clogs and cleaning cycles then this model does swapping blacks. The carts last forever even with the swaps.

danski0224

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2013, 08:47:02 AM »
I looked at the 4900, and the net is full of poor reviews. I get it that it is more common to post poor reviews than good ones.

Any particular time to watch for Epson deals, with "Black Friday" and "cyber Monday" distant memories now?
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mackguyver

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2013, 03:47:53 PM »
I bought a Pro-100 several weeks ago when Adorama had it for $100AR with free paper.  For that price, I thought it would be worthwhile to get some additional control and convenience over my prints.  So far I've made about 30 prints (mostly 8x10) and the indicators still show everything as full.  Does it drop like a cheap car fuel gauge or something? I.e. 300 miles to half tank, 350 miles to 1/4 tank, 10 miles to Empty!

dtaylor

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2013, 07:46:16 PM »
I looked at the 4900, and the net is full of poor reviews. I get it that it is more common to post poor reviews than good ones.

That's surprising to me. But when I did a search after reading your post it looks like they have a failing print head issue with that model. The actual reviews are good, the ratings and complaints trace back to that issue. Disappointing.

I don't think that's happening with the 3880 line, but mine was manufactured a few years ago.

Quote
Any particular time to watch for Epson deals, with "Black Friday" and "cyber Monday" distant memories now?

None that I'm aware of.

danski0224

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2013, 12:27:50 AM »
Well, I happened upon a gently used Epson 3800 for a fair price. It was local, so I could check it out.

Had to buy some ink, but I'm still in it for less than a 3880 refurb and way less than a new 3880.

Doesn't seem to be too many real life major differences between the 3800 and 3880 based on a quick search.

Network setup (wired) was a bit of a pain. No PnP there. Had to read the manual.

Tried out some prints onto Canon paper, and as long as I pick the right settings, print output looks very, very good.

The choosing the right print settings part is more involved than the Canon Pro-10.
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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2013, 12:27:50 AM »

danski0224

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #28 on: December 06, 2013, 12:55:03 AM »
I bought a Pro-100 several weeks ago when Adorama had it for $100AR with free paper.  For that price, I thought it would be worthwhile to get some additional control and convenience over my prints.  So far I've made about 30 prints (mostly 8x10) and the indicators still show everything as full.  Does it drop like a cheap car fuel gauge or something? I.e. 300 miles to half tank, 350 miles to 1/4 tank, 10 miles to Empty!

I have a Pro-10 and the ink levels drop fast in my use.

I have some 13 x 19 prints I have done, and those are quite a bit bigger than 4 x 6 or 8 x 10. Could ba a "duh" moment, or maybe I had different expectations.

I think I have done about 10 each 13 x 19 and probably 20 8.5 x 11 and maybe a dozen 4 x 6, and I'm through the starter inks and getting into a 3rd change on some.

The Pro-10 cartridges have an ink volume of 14ml and cost ~$16 each.

The Epson 3800 cartridges have an ink volume of 80ml and cost ~$60 each.

Simply based on volume and OEM ink costs, Canon is $91.42 for 80ml of ink (5.7 Canon cartridges for 80ml). This doesn't account for wasted ink during cartridge replacement. Six cartridges = $96. Both printers don't use the same number of ink cartridges, so a direct comparison is difficult.

There is a print cost comparison at Red River Papers, and the Canon is roughly 2x Epson per print in their testing.

There is an established Epson ink aftermarket too.

So, the smaller cartridges explain why the levels drop fast on bigger prints.

I find the Canon Pro-10 output very nice, but it isn't economical*. It would have been better to figure this out beforehand :)

* inkjet printing isn't "economical", but small ink cartridges don't match well with bigger prints...

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dtaylor

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 07:46:58 AM »
Well, I happened upon a gently used Epson 3800 for a fair price. It was local, so I could check it out.

Had to buy some ink, but I'm still in it for less than a 3880 refurb and way less than a new 3880.

Doesn't seem to be too many real life major differences between the 3800 and 3880 based on a quick search.

Network setup (wired) was a bit of a pain. No PnP there. Had to read the manual.

Tried out some prints onto Canon paper, and as long as I pick the right settings, print output looks very, very good.

Good find. There's very little real difference between the two.

I highly recommend trying out Epson's Hot Press Bright paper. Epson has a paper sample pack that's worth getting. It has two sheets each of all the press variations, exhibition fiber, etc. I was a glossy paper fan until I tried the press papers. Of course there's a ton of papers from 3rd parties as well.

inkjet printing isn't "economical", but small ink cartridges don't match well with bigger prints...

Exactly. I do consider the 3800/3880 economical once you've dealt with the up front cost above the value of the ink included with the printer.

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Re: Evaporating printer ink or Canon conspiracy
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2013, 07:46:58 AM »