December 19, 2014, 08:59:01 PM

Author Topic: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America  (Read 15807 times)

zlatko

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2013, 11:09:02 AM »
....We can all bash a camera for not being built to our personal specifications, and miss the point that it meets other people's needs very well.

Sadly, I'll never know if it meets my needs.  Living outside of Japan, I will never see one.  :)
This is not such a big deal.  For example, the 10-22mm lens for the M is not sold in the US, but you can order it online from sellers in Japan and Korea.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2013, 11:09:02 AM »

Proffarm

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2013, 11:15:05 AM »
How can people feel short changed by something they haven't bought? I completely understand the desire for better products (although how some people define 'better' seem rather short-sighted), but if something is released that isn't for you, you don't have to buy it. The money we've spent on cameras and lenses in the past was for them alone, it doesn't entitle us to anything in future. If a company moves in a direction we don't like, we don't have to go with them, but stamping our feet and threatening a tantrum (which seems the equivalent of proclaiming 'I'm going to sell all my gear and move to another brand') strikes me as rather immature.

The M2 doesn't impact me one way or the other, so why should I care? If I was in the market for this type of camera, I'd look at what's available now and choose one (and I would advise others to do the same), not wait around for possible future products.

Incidentally, it's not true that only Canon releases new gear that is similar to old lines. It's bewildering how many compact cameras and superzooms come out every few months, whose specifications seem hardly different from the existing ones. And wasn't the D610 essentially identical to the D600, to pick a single example?

Well considering that you are in an EOS M thread I think it is safe to assume that many of us posting here are in the market for a mirrorless system and are very dissapointed with the way things look to be turning out for the M.
I am not one of those with a limitless supply of funds for camera/gear. I have 2 little ones in daycare and a wife that doesn't accept financial tomfoolery, as I don't either. I absolutely love my M and credit purchasing this awesome little camera with getting me back into my first, and most intense hobby. I love this system for a number of reasons, first and foremost being the size and portability of it. I hike and ride extensively and this has just fit right in. But I chose the M for 2 reasons: I had been with Canon for about 10 years with a 20D and then a 40D, and because of the firesale price. I felt loyal to Canon because, even though I didn't use them very much, I really loved those to cameras. As for the price of the M, I concede that to complain and whine when I bought it at bargain basement price is a littly petty, but since getting the kit I’ve purchased the other two lenses, flash and filters. I have-what I consider to be-a sizeable investment in the Canon version of the mirror less system now. I was really looking forward to a version of the M that would have been more in line with the OMD EM1/5, EP-5 or GX7. Now it's looking very sketchy that we will EVER see that from Canon.

So yes, it pisses me off because now I feel like I've been marginalized by Canon because of my geographic location. Secondly, I am REALLY not interested in selling off all my stuff at probably half or, if I'm lucky, 2/3rds what I paid for it just to get me about 2/3rds the way there to an EP-5, or GX7.

And before I get flamed I'll also acknowledge that in the big scheme of things this is not a big deal. But in my little photography world that I live in on the weekends...this is supremely frustrating hahahahaha...

zlatko

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2013, 11:20:18 AM »
Exactly, we never need the latest iphones or Samsung smartphones but every since year they release a new model, i will buy the latest model and do exactly the same thing on it as i did with the previous model....surf internet and make calls...hecl i think a phone 3 years ago did the same thing for me as well! We always want the latest and if we're paying for the latest, there had better be new tech inside :) We're all gear lusting hehe..we need help.

But when some company brings the same old sh!t and call it brand new and asks for a premium, we have a problem. However apparently some people are perfectly happy about that too...
It's an improved camera, and the "premium" is a little more, as Woody explained above.  It's still a relatively cheap camera, at the bottom of the EOS line in size & features.  It's not a camera that I personally need, but I can see it being perfect for some people.  And the people for whom it is perfect will not be complaining about the sensor having "only" 18mp or being "old".  They are not "gear lusting", but rather just looking for a camera that makes good photos and is super easy to carry anywhere.  Canon wisely doesn't make gear just for "gear lusters" who frequent online forums.  They know their market is bigger than that.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 11:22:02 AM by zlatko »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2013, 11:48:11 AM »
But when some company brings the same old sh!t and call it brand new and asks for a premium, we have a problem. However apparently some people are perfectly happy about that too...

Yes, apparently enough people have been happy with that "old" 18 MP sensor to keep Canon at the top of the dSLR market for many years. 
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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2013, 12:00:23 PM »
Am I missing something?  Just because they are not being launched in the US, Canada, Europe, doesn't mean they are banned in those regions, correct?  We can still buy one from a Japanese retailer, or have a friend in Japan buy one and then ship it to you.  ...or even better, if you are lucky enough to travel to Japan for work, buy one yourself.  ...and if you do that and worried about customs, Narita airport had a Akihabara duty free shop, so you can buy it there, worse case.  I purchased a Casio bluetooth watch (not available in the US) for about the same price I would have paid here through a eBay retailer in Japan.  ...and had no issues with customs.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2013, 12:13:38 PM »
I am personally quite happy to see this "upgrade" launched in the US because it allows me to keep up hope that a better version is coming here.  The new version is disappointingly low on improved features.  I REALLY REALLY REALLY want DPAF on this camera and would buy it in a heartbeat if it comes out that way.  It will save me from having to buy yet another full-sized DSLR for the few times a year I shoot video, plus I could use a decent compact camera.
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scyrene

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2013, 12:56:35 PM »

Well considering that you are in an EOS M thread I think it is safe to assume that many of us posting here are in the market for a mirrorless system and are very dissapointed with the way things look to be turning out for the M.
I am not one of those with a limitless supply of funds for camera/gear. I have 2 little ones in daycare and a wife that doesn't accept financial tomfoolery, as I don't either. I absolutely love my M and credit purchasing this awesome little camera with getting me back into my first, and most intense hobby. I love this system for a number of reasons, first and foremost being the size and portability of it. I hike and ride extensively and this has just fit right in. But I chose the M for 2 reasons: I had been with Canon for about 10 years with a 20D and then a 40D, and because of the firesale price. I felt loyal to Canon because, even though I didn't use them very much, I really loved those to cameras. As for the price of the M, I concede that to complain and whine when I bought it at bargain basement price is a littly petty, but since getting the kit I’ve purchased the other two lenses, flash and filters. I have-what I consider to be-a sizeable investment in the Canon version of the mirror less system now. I was really looking forward to a version of the M that would have been more in line with the OMD EM1/5, EP-5 or GX7. Now it's looking very sketchy that we will EVER see that from Canon.

So yes, it pisses me off because now I feel like I've been marginalized by Canon because of my geographic location. Secondly, I am REALLY not interested in selling off all my stuff at probably half or, if I'm lucky, 2/3rds what I paid for it just to get me about 2/3rds the way there to an EP-5, or GX7.

And before I get flamed I'll also acknowledge that in the big scheme of things this is not a big deal. But in my little photography world that I live in on the weekends...this is supremely frustrating hahahahaha...

That's fair enough, but a couple of things should reassure you. First, you *can* buy it from Japan via the internet (or it may come to your market next year); second, everyone is convinced there will be a second new M model at some point next year too (and the assumption is its distribution won't be so restricted). It's not been out that long in the grand scheme of things. I'm no expert on their business model, but I can't see them abandoning the M project so quickly, especially now sales have picked up a bit.

I've nearly taken the plunge with the M myself, but there's always another EF lens to get and it's pushed down the list of priorities. I'm sure we're all hoping they do more with it in future - so long as it's not priced too high.
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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2013, 12:56:35 PM »

Proffarm

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2013, 02:33:51 PM »

Well considering that you are in an EOS M thread I think it is safe to assume that many of us posting here are in the market for a mirrorless system and are very dissapointed with the way things look to be turning out for the M.
I am not one of those with a limitless supply of funds for camera/gear. I have 2 little ones in daycare and a wife that doesn't accept financial tomfoolery, as I don't either. I absolutely love my M and credit purchasing this awesome little camera with getting me back into my first, and most intense hobby. I love this system for a number of reasons, first and foremost being the size and portability of it. I hike and ride extensively and this has just fit right in. But I chose the M for 2 reasons: I had been with Canon for about 10 years with a 20D and then a 40D, and because of the firesale price. I felt loyal to Canon because, even though I didn't use them very much, I really loved those to cameras. As for the price of the M, I concede that to complain and whine when I bought it at bargain basement price is a littly petty, but since getting the kit I’ve purchased the other two lenses, flash and filters. I have-what I consider to be-a sizeable investment in the Canon version of the mirror less system now. I was really looking forward to a version of the M that would have been more in line with the OMD EM1/5, EP-5 or GX7. Now it's looking very sketchy that we will EVER see that from Canon.

So yes, it pisses me off because now I feel like I've been marginalized by Canon because of my geographic location. Secondly, I am REALLY not interested in selling off all my stuff at probably half or, if I'm lucky, 2/3rds what I paid for it just to get me about 2/3rds the way there to an EP-5, or GX7.

And before I get flamed I'll also acknowledge that in the big scheme of things this is not a big deal. But in my little photography world that I live in on the weekends...this is supremely frustrating hahahahaha...

That's fair enough, but a couple of things should reassure you. First, you *can* buy it from Japan via the internet (or it may come to your market next year); second, everyone is convinced there will be a second new M model at some point next year too (and the assumption is its distribution won't be so restricted). It's not been out that long in the grand scheme of things. I'm no expert on their business model, but I can't see them abandoning the M project so quickly, especially now sales have picked up a bit.

I've nearly taken the plunge with the M myself, but there's always another EF lens to get and it's pushed down the list of priorities. I'm sure we're all hoping they do more with it in future - so long as it's not priced too high.

I just got over excited at the idea of a high-end M..

I haven't given up hope altogether, but I think it really does look fairly bleak.. The thing is, I want the capabilities that the EP-5 and GX7 have really, really badly, but I'm probably not going to sell this year.. I'll just hold out, hoping agains hope in my little photography man-cave until I can't anymore..

LOL

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2013, 03:03:35 PM »
But when some company brings the same old sh!t and call it brand new and asks for a premium, we have a problem. However apparently some people are perfectly happy about that too...

Yes, apparently enough people have been happy with that "old" 18 MP sensor to keep Canon at the top of the dSLR market for many years.

Doesn't change the fact that that old 18mp sensor needs to be replaced. Generally I think Canon is an innovative company and makes great products...but reusing the 18mp AGAIN really does feel like Canon is giving their customers a collective slap in the face with a little "Haha! Got you to buy one again! Nah! Nah!" So far, despite Canon's dominance...rather, maybe because of it...EOS-M is the LEAST innovative and compelling product Canon has released in recent years.

They can do better. They should do better. Their customers deserve better.

To be blunt, I won't be buying any EOS-M body until it has a newer sensor...at the very least, the 20mp DPAF sensor,  but I am still holding out hope they will offer something even better.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2013, 03:13:12 PM »
but reusing the 18mp AGAIN really does feel like Canon is giving their customers a collective slap in the face with a little "Haha! Got you to buy one again! Nah! Nah!"

No doubt Canon is behind in sensor performance in relative terms, but you're having a top-down perspective:

Sony is currently advertising their mirrorless aps-c in Germany and the main point is that has a *large* sensor - aps-c! - and the *same* as in their "pro" aps-c dslrs. Obviously a lot of folks shooting iPhone consider a crop sensor as a step up, and in absolute terms in good light there is indeed nothing wrong with it but it's quite capable.

So I'd take the "bottom-up" perspective: There's nothing wrong with the M1/M2 sensor, but I'd personally wonder why I should buy a 70d in 2014 with about the same sensor performance for a whole lot of money more, not everyone is into bird or child tracking.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2013, 03:49:51 PM »
but reusing the 18mp AGAIN really does feel like Canon is giving their customers a collective slap in the face with a little "Haha! Got you to buy one again! Nah! Nah!"

No doubt Canon is behind in sensor performance in relative terms, but you're having a top-down perspective:

Sony is currently advertising their mirrorless aps-c in Germany and the main point is that has a *large* sensor - aps-c! - and the *same* as in their "pro" aps-c dslrs. Obviously a lot of folks shooting iPhone consider a crop sensor as a step up, and in absolute terms in good light there is indeed nothing wrong with it but it's quite capable.

So I'd take the "bottom-up" perspective: There's nothing wrong with the M1/M2 sensor, but I'd personally wonder why I should buy a 70d in 2014 with about the same sensor performance for a whole lot of money more, not everyone is into bird or child tracking.

I'm not saying that Canon needs to dump the 18mp sensor because of external competition. I'm saying they need to dump it because they themselves already have better technology, and there is absolutely no reason not to utilize the 20mp DPAF sensor in the EOS-M2. I don't believe it would cannibalize 70D sales at all...different class of camera.

Not everyone may be into birds or children, true...but for the market segment where the EOS-M line fits best, a LOT of people are interested in video...and it is video where DPAF truly shines, what it was specifically designed for. Personally, I'd love to haul along an EOS-M with 20mp DPAF sensor whenever I go out shooting. I could either set it up with a little mount on top of my camera, and just let it rip, filming whatever I am shooting (kind of like a GoPro, only WAY better! :D)...or I could set it up on a second tripod, and let it record beside me.

From what I understand about Hybrid AF, the fact that it requires a two stage PD->CD AF approach means it will never track well, if at all, and if the subject moves out of focus, then you will always have the potential for that CDAF stage which is immensely obvious and annoying in video.

All I am saying is, Canon can do better. They can do better not because they have to, or because of competition...but because they already have. It seems quite clear people in the US WANT the EOS-M...it isn't that they don't, it is simply that Canon is really doing a piss-poor job making it a compelling product for this marketplace. They don't even necessarily need to spend a lot of money on it...the 20mp DPAF sensor and two or three new basic lenses would do it. They could probably get away with that for 2% of their total annual R&D budget, if even that much, and they would probably make bank... The whole EOS-M in the US is a strange ordeal, it doesn't feel like the Canon I've known for some six years plus now, and to be quite frank...it is a little frustrating.

I've never liked Sony electronics. I've had them in the past. I've known friends who live and die by Sony. But when compared to other products...I've always found better quality in Sony's competitors. Instead of a Sony TV, I went with a Samsung TV. Instead of a Sony car stereo, I went with a Pioneer. I once purchased a Sony laptop, their 18.4" 1080p HD laptop...total piece of junk that failed within a couple months, had to have a repair man out to my house (after nearly a year of trying to get support to help) to take the thing apart and replace the entire motherboard. I've found ASUS and even Lenovo ultrabooks and tablets to be far superior, more reliable products (even though they are supposedly lower rung products). So on and so forth...

I could use a mirrorless companion to my DSLR. It'll never replace what my DSLR does, but in the circumstances where I need a portable camera with a high quality sensor that is capable of shooting video with smooth focus tracking...Canon HAS the technology (they just aren't utilizing it), and I am truly loath to buy an A7r. I've handled Sony DSLR cameras, and their lenses...on quite a number of occasions, as I do with Nikon cameras whenever I'm in proximity to them at Mikes Camera or another store that has them. If I really had to, I'd move to Nikon, or at least add Nikon to my kit. Sony...not so much. Their products have always felt of lesser quality than both Canon and Nikon. They feel too light and like plastic, like breakable toys. Their lenses don't have the same solid, professional, properly damped feel as a Nikon or Canon lens. Things don't seem to perform as well or as fast on a Sony camera (speaking about DSLRs here, as they are my only regular first hand experience with Sony cameras.) Problem is...Sony has the most compelling mirrorless product on the market. It certainly has a damn good sensor...but, as Nero himself often says...the sensor is rarely the single most important aspect of a camera. It's everything else I wonder about, and I don't think I'll ever be able to shake the feeling that someone else, even Canon, can do a significantly better job than Sony at building a quality mirrorless camera.

That is...if they only would...  :-\

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2013, 03:50:53 PM »
I just got over excited at the idea of a high-end M..

I haven't given up hope altogether, but I think it really does look fairly bleak.. The thing is, I want the capabilities that the EP-5 and GX7 have really, really badly, but I'm probably not going to sell this year.. I'll just hold out, hoping agains hope in my little photography man-cave until I can't anymore..

LOL

I reckon if it's urgent, and you can't be sure there isn't a high-end one (before a set date), then by all means sell. You can always come back into the fold - resale prices are pretty good. Good luck either way :)
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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2013, 05:07:44 PM »
Canon HAS the technology (they just aren't utilizing it),

Do they really have it?

I'm the first one to say Canon boldly milks their products to the last cent before innovating, but afaik the exmor sensor design is patented so using a smaller cmos structure wouldn't solve everything. As for the mirrorless future Canon does not have a good evf, nobody has, so for the time being the dual pixel af is limited to amateur/quick video. They might have new DO lenses, but nobody ever saw an actual product yet, so they might not even have that. They do use their (hybrid) IS system and good usm af in lenses. So what real innovations apart from the 20mp 70d sensor do they have they don't use?

Concerning the latter, I'm convinced the M2 is a short-lived products and will be shortly replaced by a M3 with dual pixel af, that's the reason they don't even export the model outside Asia.

and I am truly loath to buy an A7r.

I agree about what you wrote about Sony, whenever I get a Sony store I try their new toys but it's also not for me, I don't seem to be a Sony person. Nikon, well, I had thought long about switching before I bought my more expensive lenses for Canon, but I remained on this side because of Magic Lantern (focus stacking, focus peaking, bracketing, intervalometer, ...) and because I can program my own dslr.

Other than that, it's really just illogical brand attachment because my first dslr was a Canon 620 and I loved my EOS RT, but I don't doubt Nikon would also have been a good choice - esp. when buying Tamron and Sigma lenses, currently it seems a bit strange to favor Canon cameras below the famed 1dx/5d3 af system.

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2013, 05:07:44 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2013, 05:09:54 PM »
I'm not saying that Canon needs to dump the 18mp sensor because of external competition. I'm saying they need to dump it because they themselves already have better technology, and there is absolutely no reason not to utilize the 20mp DPAF sensor in the EOS-M2. I don't believe it would cannibalize 70D sales at all...different class of camera.

No reason that you know of...   For example, what if the more complicated circuit printing results in a higher QC failure rate?  That might raise the production cost of the sensor to the point where it is not cost-effective to put in a camera body that may end up selling for $300.

Also, maybe to you it's just "the same old 18 MP sensor."  But to Canon, it's a "new" sensor that to date has only been used in one prior camera body – the SL1/100D.  Undoubtedly, Canon incurred development costs for Hybrid CMOS AF II, and it is quite likely that the SL1 alone is not sufficient to recoup those costs to yield a return on that investment.

I'm not saying you're wrong to suggest that Canon should put their latest and greatest technology into their products, I'm just pointing out practical reasons why they may not have done so in this case.
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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2013, 05:39:35 PM »
Canon HAS the technology (they just aren't utilizing it),

Do they really have it?

I'm the first one to say Canon boldly milks their products to the last cent before innovating, but afaik the exmor sensor design is patented so using a smaller cmos structure wouldn't solve everything. As for the mirrorless future Canon does not have a good evf, nobody has, so for the time being the dual pixel af is limited to amateur/quick video. They might have new DO lenses, but nobody ever saw an actual product yet, so they might not even have that. They do use their (hybrid) IS system and good usm af in lenses. So what real innovations apart from the 20mp 70d sensor do they have they don't use?

I'm not talking about an Exmor-like sensor. I just mean the 70D DPAF sensor, which was basically made in heaven for the EOS-M line. I would use an EOS-M for casual photography and video (if it had some decent lenses to go along with it). For that, I don't even need a viewfinder, the live view screen would work.

and I am truly loath to buy an A7r.

I agree about what you wrote about Sony, whenever I get a Sony store I try their new toys but it's also not for me, I don't seem to be a Sony person. Nikon, well, I had thought long about switching before I bought my more expensive lenses for Canon, but I remained on this side because of Magic Lantern (focus stacking, focus peaking, bracketing, intervalometer, ...) and because I can program my own dslr.

Other than that, it's really just illogical brand attachment because my first dslr was a Canon 620 and I loved my EOS RT, but I don't doubt Nikon would also have been a good choice - esp. when buying Tamron and Sigma lenses, currently it seems a bit strange to favor Canon cameras below the famed 1dx/5d3 af system.

Well, don't forget that you can tack the EF adapter onto an EOS-M, and your entire collection of EF lenses will work with it. Technically, there is no reason that wouldn't work with an A7r, however from the reports I've heard, AF is excruciatingly slow if you do that (where as, I've heard AF works just as well with the EF adapter on EOS-M as with EOS-M native lenses.)

I favor Canon because when you buy into a brand, you buy into their ecosystem...and years ago I chose Canon. Doesn't really matter if it is Canon, Nikon, Sony, Olympus, etc. You pick a brand, not necessarily a camera...unless you are the type who is willing to spend exorbitant amounts of money replicating the same lens for multiple brands (or are simply independently wealthy.)

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Re: Canon EOS M2 Not Coming to North America
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2013, 05:39:35 PM »