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Author Topic: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts  (Read 16450 times)

jrista

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2013, 08:06:34 PM »
Has anyone else read this story over at Canon watch, I rarely go to this site but happened to check yesterday & read this article about "No 7DMK II", concerned me after reading all the interest in a 7DMK II here at CR, I can imagine Blood in the Streets here at CR if Canon did decide not to do a 7DMK II.


http://www.canonwatch.com/another-tidbit-eos-7d-mark-ii-rumor-aps-c-flagship-set-come/

Someone started a separate thread on this, but really, it makes more sense to continue the discussion here.

I'm not buying it. Companies don't like to switch product names. Too much invested to just drop a name and start over. Particularly unlikely with something as popular as the 7D. Even Nikon didn't drop the D600 name despite how badly damaged it is. Strikes me as more rumor trolling.

I tend to agree, but then I'm an owner of the 1DMK IV & the 1DsMKIII, and Canon without too much forward warning, if any, dropped the APSH format & the higher MP FF sensor & went with the 1Dx, but from my perspective although I was concerned to start I think it was a smart decision, the 1Dx has proven to be a pretty good piece of gear, but I do miss that higher MP Sensor.

I never quite worked out why Canon couldn't implement the same set up that Nikon have had for some time, the capability of doing in camera crop, I owned the D800 for a year before I sold it off, but that in camera crop was a pretty useful tool I thought.

I have never known Canon to really show much interest in directly competing model for model, feature for feature, with Nikon or any other competitor. As a matter of fact, one of the things I really like about Canon is the fact that they really do seem to listen to the most important and vocal collective voices of their own direct customers.

For all the complaints people have levied at Canon for the "faults" of their latest generation of cameras, Canon listened intently to, and delivered exactly, what their most important customers were calling for. The sports and wedding photographers in particular demanded, DEMANDED, better high ISO performance, faster frame rates, better AF, and in the case of sports shooters, FEWER MEGAPIXELS! In the case of wedding photographers, I think the one ubiquitous request was a better AF system for the 5D III. Canon DELIVERED. They delivered exquisitely. They focused on the things their customers asked for, and pushed out a camera with the most amazing high ISO performance I've ever seen (at least, when it comes to bird and sports photography, I've seen quite a number of entirely usable ISO 51200 photos, at magazine print and web sizes you can barely tell there is any noise at all.)

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers. The largest groups have not only the most buying power, but the most important voice when it comes to demanding what they want from the largest photography company on the planet. That is, fundamentally, the sports/olympics, wedding/portraiture, and maybe in aggregate landscape/wildlife/bird photographers. You can kind of lump sports/olympics/wildlife/bird together as well...that's the action group, and in most of the ways that count, they all need the same thing: High ISO, high speed shutter, very fast frame rate, highly accurate and fast AF. That singularly large group of photographers has Canon by the gonads, and their demands in aggregate will always reign supreme. Wedding/portraiture has similar needs, but they also benefit from much higher sensor resolution and could probably use more dynamic range as well...and they would probably make up the second largest group.

If Canon continues to listen to it's own customers as a guide for where they should direct their R&D funding, then I don't suspect we will see quite as many interesting features like dynamic crop sensors as we do from Nikon. I think we will see a direct response to the most vocal outcry from the greatest majority of users. I think higher resolution is probably the largest outcry right now...more resolution without a loss in IQ. Improved dynamic range is probably secondary to more resolution...although I am honestly not as sure that a call for more dynamic range is really strong enough to get Canon to act on it by the next generation camera releases. I don't see much call at all for any of the other various and small features that Nikon currently offers in their cameras that are not available in Canon cameras. Some certainly offer small conveniences, but until a very loud vocal majority demands it, I don't foresee Canon even batting an eye at them.
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #90 on: December 16, 2013, 08:06:34 PM »

RichM

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2013, 08:37:19 PM »
Lots of interesting thoughts here.  Since this thread is still titled "Thinking Out Loud...." here goes....

I have had my 7d since the day it hit the shelves.  It is still my "go to" action photography camera, despite purchasing the 5d2, and then replacing the 5d2 with a 5d3.  While I'd love a 1DX, I cannot possibly justify the price, and the corresponding increase in cost for lenses that provide the same reach as my 7d/300f4 combo.

The 5d3 is simply awesome.  When I can only bring 1 body, for whatever reason, the 5d3 comes along.  It is outstanding for everything.   It is vastly superior in low light, and for landscape and portrait photography.  But there is something about the 7d that makes it a joy to use for all sports photography.  It is a poor man's 1D4.

I will buy the 7d replacement, regardless of what they call it, if it provides 3 things: improved low light performance, improved image quality, and an APS-C sensor.   Simply put, I'm a huge 7d fan.
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2013, 08:56:06 PM »
The article at canon watch makes sense. I read the interview where a canon exec said there would be a 7dii but they want it to be revolutionary not just evolutionary. I took that to mean a new manufacturing process, maybe its something else.

Anyway, 7dii is an evolutionary name, not a revolutionary one so I think what this is really all about is "what will the 7dii be called?"

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #93 on: December 16, 2013, 09:32:25 PM »

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers.

Strictly speaking.... changing the aspect ratio is in-camera cropping.... but I know what you mean.

Personally, I shoot RAW and worry about cropping later. A lot of my personal work gets shown in 16x9 but I like the ability to sit down later and adjust the crop/size to what works best. At work, my shots end up in reports and documentation, so size/format are all over the place.... including playing with levels/contrast/color to make cables or markings stand out.... I don't think I have taken a single picture that was not the full sensor area.
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mkabi

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #94 on: December 17, 2013, 12:10:59 AM »
There is a possibility that they may call it a 7DC... in which case... I'm sold.

I do not think its going to be a mini 1Dx or 1DC, because if any consumer/prosumer/enthusiast/professional was to choose between a 1Dx or a 7D mark II... they would always choose a 7D mark ii, because of price. Especially, if the only difference between them is going to be FF vs APS-C. In which case, Canon's 1 series bodies lose...

So, I too believe that the 7D mark ii is going to have a modest upgrade, but a modest upgrade from the 70D.
Same sensor as the 70D, better low light capabilities, more fps but not 12 fps., slightly better AF.... etc.

However, I think they are going to push 4K, may be 1080/120p.
Because, they know people can't afford the 1DC (but want 4K, seeing all of Magic Lantern efforts going towards that) and they have modest sales with the C100 so video is not going to die.
 
But expect the price to be a little less than the C100, which would put it next to the price a 5D mark iii, when it came out.

If Sony can make camcorders with 4K for $4000, then Canon can do the same with their DSLRs.
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #95 on: December 17, 2013, 12:14:46 AM »
Regardless of what their initial intentions might have been, the reality is that the APS-C market is now too big and too independent for either Canon or Nikon to risk alienating and losing customers by not meeting the consumers' demands.

But, if consumer demand for P&S cameras is on rapid decline, APS-C size sensor cameras becomes the primary competition arena for all camera makers where they should try to recover sales volumes that compacts lost to smartphones.

This should lead to Canon's APS-C camera prices going even lower than they are now (because it needs to compete with mirrorless offerings in $200-400 price range). The price decrease may also lead to difficulty with sales of APS-C cameras in '$1000 and up' segment.

In such situation FF DSLRS and EF lenses could be long term solution (or at least 'short term solution', until it's forced to create mirrorless FF) for Canon. It will not take a lot of marketing efforts to convince consumers that 'bigger means better'. And having only Nikon and Sony in this segment as competitors, Canon will be differentiated enough from the rest of the camera-maker crowd.

Another problem that Canon faces now and may solve by killing of 7D (in my opinion) are owners of older APS-C cameras (like 550D, 600D or 60D) who feel that may need to purchase new camera, but can not decide -- which one? "I own 550D (or 60D) what should I buy: 70D, 6D, 7D or wait for 7D II?" -- is probably frequent enough question on any photo forum. If Canon will remove 7D from the lineup (and drop official MSRP of 6D to $1500-1600 level), the answer to this question and customer's choice will be much simpler (and bring some more $$$ to company's quarter sales report).
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2013, 08:35:55 AM »
Regardless of what their initial intentions might have been, the reality is that the APS-C market is now too big and too independent for either Canon or Nikon to risk alienating and losing customers by not meeting the consumers' demands.

But, if consumer demand for P&S cameras is on rapid decline, APS-C size sensor cameras becomes the primary competition arena for all camera makers where they should try to recover sales volumes that compacts lost to smartphones.

This should lead to Canon's APS-C camera prices going even lower than they are now (because it needs to compete with mirrorless offerings in $200-400 price range). The price decrease may also lead to difficulty with sales of APS-C cameras in '$1000 and up' segment.

In such situation FF DSLRS and EF lenses could be long term solution (or at least 'short term solution', until it's forced to create mirrorless FF) for Canon. It will not take a lot of marketing efforts to convince consumers that 'bigger means better'. And having only Nikon and Sony in this segment as competitors, Canon will be differentiated enough from the rest of the camera-maker crowd.

Another problem that Canon faces now and may solve by killing of 7D (in my opinion) are owners of older APS-C cameras (like 550D, 600D or 60D) who feel that may need to purchase new camera, but can not decide -- which one? "I own 550D (or 60D) what should I buy: 70D, 6D, 7D or wait for 7D II?" -- is probably frequent enough question on any photo forum. If Canon will remove 7D from the lineup (and drop official MSRP of 6D to $1500-1600 level), the answer to this question and customer's choice will be much simpler (and bring some more $$$ to company's quarter sales report).

funny you mention this as that's the position I'm in right now.  So far, my answer to this would be to get both.  ;)
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2013, 08:35:55 AM »

Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #97 on: December 17, 2013, 09:11:30 AM »
funny you mention this as that's the position I'm in right now.  So far, my answer to this would be to get both.  ;)

Well, then it just means that Canon marketing folk are much wiser again and do need any suggestions from various forums.

They just needed to spread out rumor that will terminate another rumor about '7D II to be released very soon'... :)
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2013, 01:01:38 PM »
My 7D doesn't get much use anymore, because of the noise level.  I'd only be interested in a 7D2 if Canon makes a substanially lower noise 1.6 sensor and from what I've seen, they are not making much progress on that front.
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Zlyden

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2013, 01:39:49 PM »
My 7D doesn't get much use anymore, because of the noise level.  I'd only be interested in a 7D2 if Canon makes a substanially lower noise 1.6 sensor and from what I've seen, they are not making much progress on that front.

Well, it is not only Canon -- no camera makers in APS-C or 4/3 segment did make much progress on 'noise level' during past 10 years (unless a great jump from ISO 1600 being 'just awful' to 'almost acceptable' counts as a progress).

I do not think that it's possible that '7D II' may be much better in this quality... unless they will use the same type of sensors as in current FF cameras (like 6D) and reduce 18 MPs back to 8-10 MPs.
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jrista

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #100 on: December 17, 2013, 05:17:47 PM »

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers.

Strictly speaking.... changing the aspect ratio is in-camera cropping.... but I know what you mean.

Personally, I shoot RAW and worry about cropping later. A lot of my personal work gets shown in 16x9 but I like the ability to sit down later and adjust the crop/size to what works best. At work, my shots end up in reports and documentation, so size/format are all over the place.... including playing with levels/contrast/color to make cables or markings stand out.... I don't think I have taken a single picture that was not the full sensor area.

I think your misunderstanding just a little bit. By in-camera cropping, I am referring to the ability of say a FF sensor to support different crops wherein ONLY the cropped area is read out and saved to a proper RAW image format. If Canon released a 46mp FF sensor, they might also provide an 18mp APS-C cropped read. By doing so, they could offer more than just crop, but ALSO offer higher frame rate, since reading 18 megapixles requires less time and overhead than reading 46 megapixels. You might have a 4fps rate at 46mp, and 10fps at 18mp. You could also have other crop factors as well, maybe a 1.3x APS-H crop at 8fps. And, since it is still a native sensor read, just a sensor read limited to a smaller central region of pixels, there is no reason whatsoever that the output couldn't and shouldn't be the same native RAW format as full frame reads.
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Don Haines

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #101 on: December 17, 2013, 06:01:20 PM »

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers.

Strictly speaking.... changing the aspect ratio is in-camera cropping.... but I know what you mean.

Personally, I shoot RAW and worry about cropping later. A lot of my personal work gets shown in 16x9 but I like the ability to sit down later and adjust the crop/size to what works best. At work, my shots end up in reports and documentation, so size/format are all over the place.... including playing with levels/contrast/color to make cables or markings stand out.... I don't think I have taken a single picture that was not the full sensor area.

I think your misunderstanding just a little bit. By in-camera cropping, I am referring to the ability of say a FF sensor to support different crops wherein ONLY the cropped area is read out and saved to a proper RAW image format. If Canon released a 46mp FF sensor, they might also provide an 18mp APS-C cropped read. By doing so, they could offer more than just crop, but ALSO offer higher frame rate, since reading 18 megapixles requires less time and overhead than reading 46 megapixels. You might have a 4fps rate at 46mp, and 10fps at 18mp. You could also have other crop factors as well, maybe a 1.3x APS-H crop at 8fps. And, since it is still a native sensor read, just a sensor read limited to a smaller central region of pixels, there is no reason whatsoever that the output couldn't and shouldn't be the same native RAW format as full frame reads.

I knew exactly what you meant.... but I didn't consider the faster frame rate with the smaller files... Even a Rebel can read an 18M sensor at 60 times per second, and any "big megapixel" camera that supports video should have no problem with being able to read the sensor 60 times per second.

I think that what slows down frame rate is the shutter speed, the time needed to create the files, and mostly the ability to dump the files out to storage. I agree, smaller number of pixels to be used in the image gives faster processing and less time to write, and that gives you more frames/second.

As an interesting aside, I have a p/s with a 16M sensor, it can shoot video at 240 frames per second so that implies that time required to read the sensor is not important... As you shrink down the recorded size of the image the frame rate goes up...
 11.5fps/17 images (16M)
 60.3fps/60 images (3M)

If Canon put out a DSLR where you could put it into a 10Mpixel crop mode and fire off a burst at 30 or 40 frames per second there would be a lot of interested bird photographers :)
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jrista

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2013, 06:55:39 PM »

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers.

Strictly speaking.... changing the aspect ratio is in-camera cropping.... but I know what you mean.

Personally, I shoot RAW and worry about cropping later. A lot of my personal work gets shown in 16x9 but I like the ability to sit down later and adjust the crop/size to what works best. At work, my shots end up in reports and documentation, so size/format are all over the place.... including playing with levels/contrast/color to make cables or markings stand out.... I don't think I have taken a single picture that was not the full sensor area.

I think your misunderstanding just a little bit. By in-camera cropping, I am referring to the ability of say a FF sensor to support different crops wherein ONLY the cropped area is read out and saved to a proper RAW image format. If Canon released a 46mp FF sensor, they might also provide an 18mp APS-C cropped read. By doing so, they could offer more than just crop, but ALSO offer higher frame rate, since reading 18 megapixles requires less time and overhead than reading 46 megapixels. You might have a 4fps rate at 46mp, and 10fps at 18mp. You could also have other crop factors as well, maybe a 1.3x APS-H crop at 8fps. And, since it is still a native sensor read, just a sensor read limited to a smaller central region of pixels, there is no reason whatsoever that the output couldn't and shouldn't be the same native RAW format as full frame reads.

I knew exactly what you meant.... but I didn't consider the faster frame rate with the smaller files... Even a Rebel can read an 18M sensor at 60 times per second, and any "big megapixel" camera that supports video should have no problem with being able to read the sensor 60 times per second.

I think that what slows down frame rate is the shutter speed, the time needed to create the files, and mostly the ability to dump the files out to storage. I agree, smaller number of pixels to be used in the image gives faster processing and less time to write, and that gives you more frames/second.

As an interesting aside, I have a p/s with a 16M sensor, it can shoot video at 240 frames per second so that implies that time required to read the sensor is not important... As you shrink down the recorded size of the image the frame rate goes up...
 11.5fps/17 images (16M)
 60.3fps/60 images (3M)

If Canon put out a DSLR where you could put it into a 10Mpixel crop mode and fire off a burst at 30 or 40 frames per second there would be a lot of interested bird photographers :)

I am talking about cropped stills, not cropped video. (Personally, I could really care less about video in my DSLR...it's convenient for some uses, but I really use my DSLR for photography.) Also, keep in mind, read occurs at the front end of the pipeline...compression, such as video compression or compression of photos into RAW files/JPEG, occurs at the back end of the pipeline. The readout rate requires that the front end speed, the data being pulled off the sensor and shipped into the DSP, support the full RAW data size of the full sensor at it's native bit depth, masked pixels and any error correcting or other intrinsic overhead included.

As for readout rate, they aren't reading the entire sensor at 60fps. Video reads are different than full frame stills reads. You only need to read two megapixels for full HD video. If they actually WERE reading the full frame at 60fps, that would mean the data throughput rate was TWO GIGABYTES PER SECOND. The DIGIC5+ is only capable of 250 MEGABYTES per second each (and the 1D X needs 480MB throughput to support 14fps, hence the use of dual digic.) Conversely, at 2 megapixels, the total throughput rate for 1080p readout at 60fps is 218MB/s, and is very likely achieved via some kind of basic hardware binning at best, and row skipping at worst.

Your little P&S is using binned readout or something like that to achieve 240fps, and even then, is it a progressive readout, or interleaved readout? If interleaved, the true readout rate would be 120fps, very likely for a mere 1mp worth of data. To actually read a full 16mp worth of data at 240fps (even at a mere 12 bit), you would need over 6BG/s throughput (that would be faster than SATA 3!)

What I think most people are referring to is a true native stills photography read, but with native cropping. Assuming we get DIGIC7+, capable of 7x DIGIC5+ performance. That would allow a 1750MB/s (1.75GB/s) raw data readout rate. That would allow around 19fps @ 46mp (assuming masked border pixels and some additional overhead). It would allow 37.7mp APS-H reads at ~33fps, and 18.1mp APS-C reads at ~51fps. For all that seven times more processing power than a single DIGIC5+, it still doesn't get you over the 60fps hump...even with hardware cropping.
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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #102 on: December 17, 2013, 06:55:39 PM »

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #103 on: December 17, 2013, 06:59:54 PM »

There has never been a large, vocal outcry for Canon to add dynamic cropping modes to their cameras. There are certainly some niche groups of photographers who want it, but they seem to be far from the majority of Canon's customers.

Strictly speaking.... changing the aspect ratio is in-camera cropping.... but I know what you mean.

Personally, I shoot RAW and worry about cropping later. A lot of my personal work gets shown in 16x9 but I like the ability to sit down later and adjust the crop/size to what works best. At work, my shots end up in reports and documentation, so size/format are all over the place.... including playing with levels/contrast/color to make cables or markings stand out.... I don't think I have taken a single picture that was not the full sensor area.

I think your misunderstanding just a little bit. By in-camera cropping, I am referring to the ability of say a FF sensor to support different crops wherein ONLY the cropped area is read out and saved to a proper RAW image format. If Canon released a 46mp FF sensor, they might also provide an 18mp APS-C cropped read. By doing so, they could offer more than just crop, but ALSO offer higher frame rate, since reading 18 megapixles requires less time and overhead than reading 46 megapixels. You might have a 4fps rate at 46mp, and 10fps at 18mp. You could also have other crop factors as well, maybe a 1.3x APS-H crop at 8fps. And, since it is still a native sensor read, just a sensor read limited to a smaller central region of pixels, there is no reason whatsoever that the output couldn't and shouldn't be the same native RAW format as full frame reads.

I knew exactly what you meant.... but I didn't consider the faster frame rate with the smaller files... Even a Rebel can read an 18M sensor at 60 times per second, and any "big megapixel" camera that supports video should have no problem with being able to read the sensor 60 times per second.

I think that what slows down frame rate is the shutter speed, the time needed to create the files, and mostly the ability to dump the files out to storage. I agree, smaller number of pixels to be used in the image gives faster processing and less time to write, and that gives you more frames/second.

As an interesting aside, I have a p/s with a 16M sensor, it can shoot video at 240 frames per second so that implies that time required to read the sensor is not important... As you shrink down the recorded size of the image the frame rate goes up...
 11.5fps/17 images (16M)
 60.3fps/60 images (3M)

If Canon put out a DSLR where you could put it into a 10Mpixel crop mode and fire off a burst at 30 or 40 frames per second there would be a lot of interested bird photographers :)

I am talking about cropped stills, not cropped video. (Personally, I could really care less about video in my DSLR...it's convenient for some uses, but I really use my DSLR for photography.) Also, keep in mind, read occurs at the front end of the pipeline...compression, such as video compression or compression of photos into RAW files/JPEG, occurs at the back end of the pipeline. The readout rate requires that the front end speed, the data being pulled off the sensor and shipped into the DSP, support the full RAW data size of the full sensor at it's native bit depth, masked pixels and any error correcting or other intrinsic overhead included.

As for readout rate, they aren't reading the entire sensor at 60fps. Video reads are different than full frame stills reads. You only need to read two megapixels for full HD video. If they actually WERE reading the full frame at 60fps, that would mean the data throughput rate was TWO GIGABYTES PER SECOND. The DIGIC5+ is only capable of 250 MEGABYTES per second each (and the 1D X needs 480MB throughput to support 14fps, hence the use of dual digic.) Conversely, at 2 megapixels, the total throughput rate for 1080p readout at 60fps is 218MB/s, and is very likely achieved via some kind of basic hardware binning at best, and row skipping at worst.

Your little P&S is using binned readout or something like that to achieve 240fps, and even then, is it a progressive readout, or interleaved readout? If interleaved, the true readout rate would be 120fps, very likely for a mere 1mp worth of data. To actually read a full 16mp worth of data at 240fps (even at a mere 12 bit), you would need over 6BG/s throughput (that would be faster than SATA 3!)

What I think most people are referring to is a true native stills photography read, but with native cropping. Assuming we get DIGIC7+, capable of 7x DIGIC5+ performance. That would allow a 1750MB/s (1.75GB/s) raw data readout rate. That would allow around 19fps @ 46mp (assuming masked border pixels and some additional overhead). It would allow 37.7mp APS-H reads at ~33fps, and 18.1mp APS-C reads at ~51fps. For all that seven times more processing power than a single DIGIC5+, it still doesn't get you over the 60fps hump...even with hardware cropping.
Interesting....
Every time I discuss something with you I learn things.  Thanks for the patience!
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candc

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2013, 07:15:51 PM »
in camera cropping or digital zoom is great with an evf so you see what you see is what you get. it would be splendid with a high mp ff mirrorless body. when canon makes a big mp ff body like the d800 then it should have a crop mode also, its better than not having it but you just get a crop square in the viewfinder. i don't know if there is a good way to change the magnification of what you see in the finder when you switch to crop mode?

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Re: Thinking Out Loud: EOS 7D Mark II Thoughts
« Reply #104 on: December 17, 2013, 07:15:51 PM »