August 02, 2014, 04:05:57 AM

Author Topic: Is Sony junk....  (Read 6389 times)

Heavyweight67

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Is Sony junk....
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:00:52 AM »
"Moody's cut its credit rating on Sony to junk on Monday, saying the Japanese electronics giant had more work to do in repairing its battered balance sheet...."     Source AFP....

How will this effect, the current crop of A7's and A7R's.....

Will we see further development?, will we see price drops?

Will be interesting to see what does or doesn't develop from this...


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Is Sony junk....
« on: January 27, 2014, 10:00:52 AM »

CarlTN

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2014, 04:47:39 PM »
Yes, yes they are!

eml58

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2014, 05:24:31 PM »
It's a damn shame in today's world where an "independent" group of people can influence the views and values of the general public world wide regards companies such as Sony, Apple, Dell, etc etc.

If this Apple in the US making crap statements such as this the Good Old non aligned US Government would rip their heads off, or at least take the opportunity to fleece them solidly.

Sony are an excellent company, producing some quite amazing products, including I feel the a7r, but they do it in competition and I feel at times, exceptionally poorly led.
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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2014, 05:35:54 PM »
This moody chap sounds like a fun guy to be around

Orangutan

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2014, 05:38:02 PM »
It's a damn shame in today's world where an "independent" group of people can influence the views and values of the general public world wide regards companies such as Sony, Apple, Dell, etc etc.

I believe this is not a statement about the company and its products, but about its finances and ability to repay debts. 


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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 07:37:05 PM »
It's a damn shame in today's world where an "independent" group of people can influence the views and values of the general public world wide regards companies such as Sony, Apple, Dell, etc etc.

If this Apple in the US making crap statements such as this the Good Old non aligned US Government would rip their heads off, or at least take the opportunity to fleece them solidly.

Sony are an excellent company, producing some quite amazing products, including I feel the a7r, but they do it in competition and I feel at times, exceptionally poorly led.

What are you taking about??
 
Sony is losing huge amounts of money and has been losing money.  That money is being lost by investors, including retirement funds and pension funds which means common people are being hurt. 
 
That independent group of people is justly warning potential investors that they are likely to lose any money they invest.  A Junk Status means its the poorest possible investment and carries a high risk.
 
It is certainly not a shame to rate a company low far a financial investment when it is a fact that its a big risk.

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2014, 07:37:05 PM »

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2014, 01:24:53 AM »
"Moody's cut its credit rating on Sony to junk on Monday, saying the Japanese electronics giant had more work to do in repairing its battered balance sheet...."     Source AFP....

How will this effect, the current crop of A7's and A7R's.....

Will we see further development?, will we see price drops?

Will be interesting to see what does or doesn't develop from this...
I don't think it will have any impact on a7 / a7R, because sales for those cameras are quite strong ... it is majority of their other divisions that are causing huge loses for them (with the exception of PlayStation and insurance). This only means that their task (to turn around the loss making divisions) is difficult but not impossible. Sony a7 and a7R are selling very well, so I don't expect a price drop until the "discount season" kicks in (which ushers in price reductions from most of the camera manufacturers).
But what could trigger a price slide and a potential disaster for a7 & a7R is if Sony does not release the lenses they promised they would.
There are 4 Sony FE lenses currently available (for a7 & a7R) in Japan i.e. 24-70 / 28-70 / 35 & 55mm lenses ... My 24-70, purchased in Japan, is arriving on the 9th Feb  8)
In USA and most parts of the world only 3 of those lenses are available (24-70 is still on pre-order status).
Sony does have a reputation for dropping several of their product lines ... I'm hoping, they don't do that with the a7/a7R and their lenses. I hope they will be committed to this product  line ... time will tell.   
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eml58

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2014, 03:13:58 AM »

What are you taking about??
 

I'll give it a go Mt Spokane.

In 2010 the US Government took to task this bunch of no hopers over the fact that 73% of Morgage stocks they rated in 2006 as AAA, had by 2010 become rated as "Junk", these guys and few others just like them could have/should have alerted the Market to the looming mortgage crisis, this is what they sell themselves as right ?? Crystal Ball Gazers, a Company that looks into a Companies worth, valuation, etc etc, but we all know they didn't do that re the companies they valued so highly in 2006 that in 2010 directly contributed to one of the worst financial crisis of the last 50 years.

So why do people, just like you Mt Spokane, still sing their praises, I think Moodys as an organisation and in the way in which they pronounce sentence on other private companies, is reprehensible, but the US Government still allow these guys to influence Markets, question here should be, why ??

I agree with you that Sony today is not a healthy company, I wouldn't invest a cent in Sony Stocks, but I'm just fine buying an a7r, a PS4, a Sony TV.

My comment was less about Sony and more about Moodys, I think they're charlatans.

On the other hand I think Sony are a reasonably good company going through hard times, time will tell if they can pull it together, others have, hopefully Sony will, I certainly hope so, it will cause a lot of grief to a lot of people if they dont survive, on the other hand I couldn't give a flying crocodile if Moodys sink into oblivion.

I guess that was what I was talking about.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 05:27:30 AM by eml58 »
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2014, 10:20:56 PM »

What are you taking about??
 

I'll give it a go Mt Spokane.

In 2010 the US Government took to task this bunch of no hopers over the fact that 73% of Morgage stocks they rated in 2006 as AAA, had by 2010 become rated as "Junk", these guys and few others just like them could have/should have alerted the Market to the looming mortgage crisis, this is what they sell themselves as right ?? Crystal Ball Gazers, a Company that looks into a Companies worth, valuation, etc etc, but we all know they didn't do that re the companies they valued so highly in 2006 that in 2010 directly contributed to one of the worst financial crisis of the last 50 years.

So why do people, just like you Mt Spokane, still sing their praises, I think Moodys as an organisation and in the way in which they pronounce sentence on other private companies, is reprehensible, but the US Government still allow these guys to influence Markets, question here should be, why ??

I agree with you that Sony today is not a healthy company, I wouldn't invest a cent in Sony Stocks, but I'm just fine buying an a7r, a PS4, a Sony TV.

My comment was less about Sony and more about Moodys, I think they're charlatans.

On the other hand I think Sony are a reasonably good company going through hard times, time will tell if they can pull it together, others have, hopefully Sony will, I certainly hope so, it will cause a lot of grief to a lot of people if they dont survive, on the other hand I couldn't give a flying crocodile if Moodys sink into oblivion.

I guess that was what I was talking about.

I have not sang anyones praises, contrary to your claim. 
I did say that the rating of Sony as junk status is deserved.  they have made bad choices for ye=ars, and stock buyers need to be warned.
 
Your example of rating a company too high doesn't wash.  If it had been known and not hidden by the companies involved, they would have been rated junk.  Companies like Washington Mutual hid their problems, but stockholders and pension funds paid the price.
There is always 20-20 hindsight, but bashing someone for doing what they were paid to do and doing it right, does not make sense. 
 
I'm sorry if you own Sony stock.   

Badger

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 12:00:31 AM »
Quote
I agree with you that Sony today is not a healthy company, I wouldn't invest a cent in Sony Stocks, but I'm just fine buying an a7r, a PS4, a Sony TV.

Sounds like if eml58 is agreeing with Moody's in this case but suggesting Moody's has been wrong in the past...I think  ???

No one is running out and buying Sony stock at this moment but that A7r certainly has my attention along with the PS4. Unfortunately for a monster like Sony, a couple of good products or even divisions might not be enough to put them in good graces.   
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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 04:42:54 AM »
It's a damn shame in today's world where an "independent" group of people can influence the views and values of the general public world wide regards companies such as Sony, Apple, Dell, etc etc.

I believe this is not a statement about the company and its products, but about its finances and ability to repay debts.

Thanks for the info ... I'll be asking cash up-front from now on when dealing with Sony. (Hey, they do with me.)
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jrista

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 05:21:22 AM »
It's a damn shame in today's world where an "independent" group of people can influence the views and values of the general public world wide regards companies such as Sony, Apple, Dell, etc etc.

If this Apple in the US making crap statements such as this the Good Old non aligned US Government would rip their heads off, or at least take the opportunity to fleece them solidly.

Sony are an excellent company, producing some quite amazing products, including I feel the a7r, but they do it in competition and I feel at times, exceptionally poorly led.

Sony makes SOME good products...they make a lot of so-so products as well.

But this downgrade is a FINANCIAL thing. Regardless of the quality of Sony's products, their financials are an UTTER DISASTER. Sony has taken tens of BILLIONS out in debt. They have financed payments on old debt with new debt. They are as much a debtmonger as the EU and the US central governments. Additionally, the majority of Sony's businesses lose money, rather than make money. The most IRONIC thing about Sony is that their most profitable business sector, by a significant margin, is insurance policies in the Asian markets. :P

They absolutely DESERVE to have their rating reduced to junk. Because financially, they are junk. Because from a business standpoint, their models are junk. It's a highly, highly risky bet to buy either Sony bonds (or even stock), therefor the return to the investors who take that risk should be more richly rewarded if it pays off.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 05:23:20 AM by jrista »
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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 05:21:22 AM »

Albi86

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2014, 08:28:40 AM »
I'm far from being a finance expert, but it seems to me that they are climbing back up.

https://www.google.com/finance?fstype=ii&q=NYSE:SNE

We should wait till the end of march to see the data about the last year. This means that there could be some nice deals around march :)

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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 12:46:05 PM »
My comment was less about Sony and more about Moodys, I think they're charlatans.

There are three major bond rating agencies in the U.S. – Moody's, Fitch and Standard and Poor's. They are in competition with one another and their ratings generally parallel each other, which is what you would expect, as they all rely on and examine the same financial data of businesses and governments.

They issue ratings based on their financial analysis as a guide for investors. They make their ratings based on the data available to them and the public policies in place at the time. They cannot predict market changes or government policy changes and shouldn't be expected to. Just as with any financial analysis, "past performance is no guarantee of future results."

I'm not sure why anyone would want the U.S. Government or any other government to prevent these firms from rating a company's bond sales. They may not be perfect, but it is certainly better than no review.

As far as the U.S. mortgage crisis goes, there is plenty of blame to go around. The crisis has its roots in the 1990s, when the Clinton administration and Congress started pressuring banks to make bad loans in order to put more people into housing, even if it was housing that was overpriced and which the buyers really could not afford. Yet, the people of New York elected the prime architect of the subprime mortgage crisis to be their governor.

I don't get the idea of criticizing Moody's for not being vigilant enough in the U.S. mortgage crisis and then turning around and saying they are being too vigilant in the case of Sony.
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Re: Is Sony junk....
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 12:46:05 PM »