October 01, 2014, 07:02:26 PM

Author Topic: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?  (Read 3971 times)

jarwood

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5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« on: February 01, 2014, 10:11:03 PM »
Hello everyone,

I have been shooting with the Mk3 for a few months now, but have recently started seeing some grain in my images. I'm not really sure if it is something on my end causing this, or if it is within the camera. The attached image is a screen grab from a clip I shot wide open at f4 (24-105mm L) with an ISO of 800. The footage gets incredibly grainy when I sharpen in post and I'm not sure why. Could it be that the sky is out of focus? Should I have shot it at a much smaller fstop to avoid this? Any help would be very much appreciated. I'm still pretty new to videography, but I feel I should be getting much cleaner images than I have been. Thanks!

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5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« on: February 01, 2014, 10:11:03 PM »

flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 10:30:11 PM »
Hello everyone,

I have been shooting with the Mk3 for a few months now, but have recently started seeing some grain in my images. I'm not really sure if it is something on my end causing this, or if it is within the camera. The attached image is a screen grab from a clip I shot wide open at f4 (24-105mm L) with an ISO of 800. The footage gets incredibly grainy when I sharpen in post and I'm not sure why. Could it be that the sky is out of focus? Should I have shot it at a much smaller fstop to avoid this? Any help would be very much appreciated. I'm still pretty new to videography, but I feel I should be getting much cleaner images than I have been. Thanks!

The histogram of the image above:


As you can see, all the information contained in the two darkest segments (5 darkest stops)
This means that you wasted 87.5% of the information.

It looks grainy because of the lack of information and the inaccuracy of the photon count. If you try to bring up the exposure it will look noisy even at a low ISO.

The darkest parts lack the most information, it cannot be effectively recovered. Below you can see how much information can be recovered and how much is lost. First image a quick manipulation to show the really noisy parts with very little information. The second picture a more realistic attempt at pushing the image as far as it will go.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 12:38:07 AM by flowers »

flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 12:58:31 PM »
You didn't post EXIF. If you don't post more information, we can't help you. What settings did you use? Choosing your ISO correctly is also important, some lower ISOs can actually be noisier than higher ISOs. One way to get cleaner video is to
 expose brighter
 and then bring the brightness down in post and push the blacks to crush the noisy shadows:

« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 01:12:25 PM by flowers »

jarwood

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 05:48:17 PM »
Thank you so much for your insight! I have just been at a loss. I haven't accessed the EXIF data before, how would be the easiest way to do so?

Also, I had a breakthrough today. I was working with one of my clips and noticed there was a lot of vertical banding. I realized I had been shooting in IPB, which I thought wouldn't affect anything. So just as a test is switched to ALL-I and filmed similar shots. The ALL-I was much cleaner and did not produce the grain or vertical banding. Is this a common occurrence or is something wrong with my IPB?

flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 06:22:13 PM »
Thank you so much for your insight! I have just been at a loss. I haven't accessed the EXIF data before, how would be the easiest way to do so?

Also, I had a breakthrough today. I was working with one of my clips and noticed there was a lot of vertical banding. I realized I had been shooting in IPB, which I thought wouldn't affect anything. So just as a test is switched to ALL-I and filmed similar shots. The ALL-I was much cleaner and did not produce the grain or vertical banding. Is this a common occurrence or is something wrong with my IPB?
I'm sorry, I was not thinking straight when I wrote the first part of the message. I was dealing with other things at the same time so I momentarily forgot we were talking about video. Video files have no EXIF data!
Do you remember what settings you used for shutter/ISO/aperture?

IPB features better compression but personally I'd always use ALL-I. It makes life easier. It shouldn't have any direct effect on noise, but editing IPB material can result in worse IQ in the final video.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 06:31:47 PM by flowers »

jarwood

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »
No worries.

ISO was 800. Frame rate 24. Shutter 1/50. Aperture f4. IPB compression.

I really have no idea why, but the ALL-I was a ton cleaner than IPB. Even after sharpening, there was minimal grain. I've noticed the vertical banding before, but it had never been too much of an issue. So I won't be shooting in IPB anymore.

flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 07:13:38 PM »
No worries.

ISO was 800. Frame rate 24. Shutter 1/50. Aperture f4. IPB compression.

I really have no idea why, but the ALL-I was a ton cleaner than IPB. Even after sharpening, there was minimal grain. I've noticed the vertical banding before, but it had never been too much of an issue. So I won't be shooting in IPB anymore.

Those settings should not result in that kind of noise! Don't be afraid to push the 5d3 to 6400 when you need to! It can handle it (even 12800 in a pinch). Underexposure will be noisier than correct exposure or less underexposure. If you underexpose and push black you'll get a darker image than you shot but if you expose brighter and then bright exposure down and black up you'll have a far better control over the final brightness.
 :)

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 07:13:38 PM »

jarwood

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 07:21:54 PM »
I didn't think it should be putting out that kind of noise. Thank you so much for your help!

flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 07:30:11 PM »
I didn't think it should be putting out that kind of noise. Thank you so much for your help!
Happy to help!

mdrewpix

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 09:33:33 PM »
Your clip is simply underexposed. Expose it properly and you'll be fine. There's no way to fix a shot like that. And shooting All-I won't make any difference. Underexposed is underexposed. Additionally, shooting All-I is overkill for web video and the like. IPB is fine unless you're shooting for theatrical projection.

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2014, 03:06:23 PM »
Your clip is simply underexposed. Expose it properly and you'll be fine. There's no way to fix a shot like that. And shooting All-I won't make any difference. Underexposed is underexposed. Additionally, shooting All-I is overkill for web video and the like. IPB is fine unless you're shooting for theatrical projection.

I think the banding is making the noise look worse than it actually is.  And IPB actually has less banding, so my guess is that All-I would make it look worse.

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2014, 08:49:39 PM »
. Video files have no EXIF data!


There is plenty of shooting information for 5D MK III video.  Open up DPP and select a video, then right click and select info.
 
Here is some from a test video I recently shot.
 
File Name untitled-6170.MOV
Camera Model Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Firmware Firmware Version 1.2.1
Shooting Date/Time 1/16/2014 9:01:07 PM
Author 
Copyright Notice Mount Spokane Photography-2014
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Movie
Tv(Shutter Speed) 1/160
Metering Mode Center-Weighted Average Metering
Exposure Compensation -2/3
ISO Speed Auto
Auto ISO Speed ON
Lens EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Focal Length 70.0mm
Image Size 1920x1080
Movie exposure Shutter-Priority AE
Compression format MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Movie quality Low compression(intra frame, ALL-I)
Recording Time 143.1 seconds
Frame Rate 29.97
Flash Off
FE lock OFF
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode One-Shot AF
Picture Style Faithful
Sharpness 0
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Long exposure noise reduction Disable
High ISO speed noise reduction Disable
Highlight tone priority Disable
Auto Lighting Optimizer Disable
Peripheral illumination correction Enable
Chromatic aberration correction Enable
File Size 1523291KB
Drive Mode Movie shooting
Live View Shooting ON
Camera Body No. 062024006599
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flowers

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 03:13:51 AM »
. Video files have no EXIF data!


There is plenty of shooting information for 5D MK III video.  Open up DPP and select a video, then right click and select info.
 
Here is some from a test video I recently shot.
 
File Name untitled-6170.MOV
Camera Model Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Firmware Firmware Version 1.2.1
Shooting Date/Time 1/16/2014 9:01:07 PM
Author 
Copyright Notice Mount Spokane Photography-2014
Owner's Name
Shooting Mode Movie
Tv(Shutter Speed) 1/160
Metering Mode Center-Weighted Average Metering
Exposure Compensation -2/3
ISO Speed Auto
Auto ISO Speed ON
Lens EF70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM
Focal Length 70.0mm
Image Size 1920x1080
Movie exposure Shutter-Priority AE
Compression format MPEG-4 AVC/H.264
Movie quality Low compression(intra frame, ALL-I)
Recording Time 143.1 seconds
Frame Rate 29.97
Flash Off
FE lock OFF
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode One-Shot AF
Picture Style Faithful
Sharpness 0
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0
Color Space sRGB
Long exposure noise reduction Disable
High ISO speed noise reduction Disable
Highlight tone priority Disable
Auto Lighting Optimizer Disable
Peripheral illumination correction Enable
Chromatic aberration correction Enable
File Size 1523291KB
Drive Mode Movie shooting
Live View Shooting ON
Camera Body No. 062024006599
Comment

Oh wow, I didn't know Canon cameras record that much metadata in videos! Thank you for pointing that out. Can you only read it using DPP or can some other programs show it too?

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2014, 03:13:51 AM »

syder

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2014, 06:40:19 PM »
To minimise noise in video using any Canon DSLR shoot with your ISO set in multiples of 160 (so 160, 320, 640, 1250 etc). This makes a surprising amount of difference.

However, in the example frame you've posted, the issue is that the shot is seriously underexposed. Ultimately you can't push a heavily compressed 8-bit video image in the same way you can a 14-bit RAW still (and you'd be pushing it with the level of underexposure in the frame you've posted even it was RAW).

jdramirez

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 08:31:40 PM »
People often mention it... expose to the right... so you over expose your image a little and then in post move it back... less grain... more info that's not lost...
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L->85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm ->100L & 85L

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Re: 5D Mk3 Grainy footage. Any ideas?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2014, 08:31:40 PM »