July 29, 2014, 04:51:05 AM

Author Topic: 600EX-RT Manual Question  (Read 2994 times)

Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 12:27:00 AM »
The feature you want to use is apparently a mode called "individual slave" but it is only available when using Canon's older "optical" remote triggering system. Maybe you can use that instead?

Thank you for this SPTurtle! This might just have to do as a work around. It's just a shame that I sold off my 580EXII's, to upgrade to a 600, as I thought that this would save me having to buy pocket wizards (or similar) to find out that I can't do it! I can't figure out why canon wouldn't let you do this!!
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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2014, 12:27:00 AM »

Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2014, 12:30:24 AM »
What I would like to be able to do, is walk about with my 600EX-RT in hand, and point it at where I would like to pin point a little extra light. Then set the 600EX-RT that is off camera (in my hand) to manual, and choose my power setting. But it seems that when the flashes are linked, I can only set the power level by adjusting it on flash in the hotshot. However, I would like to be across the room, with flash in hand.

Nope this can't be done on a slave unit while it is linked to the master.   With radio controlled flash, the master and it's slaves essentially become one system and are controlled by the master.  Keep in mind there is two way communication between master and slave when configured as radio.

When configured as optical, there is only one way communication--a signal being sent from the master.  The master has no idea of how many (if any) slaves are out there.  Essential the slaves are completely independent and will fire only if it can see a signal from the master.  That is why you can adjust the optical slaves right at the slave.

You will need to switch to optical to accomplish what you are trying to do.

Thank you for your input RC. I fear that you might be right with this, which is a shame. Do you know, can I have the off camera flash in my hand as the master, and then have all the controls on the remote flash. I know that I can set it up to Master Linked Shot, but I can't see a way of achieving it this way.
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Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2014, 12:35:38 AM »
This guy has apparently perfected the technique you are aiming for:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2011/09/mike-kelley-two-speedlight.html

He is selling an 8-our DVD on this technique:

http://fstoppers.com/how-to-photograph-real-estate-architecture-and-interiors-tutorial-with-mike-kelley


Yes, this is exactly what I am looking to achieve, but with the built in radio tech, in the 600's. He either uses dumb optical, or Pocketwizards.

It just seems stupid, to clip a Pocketwizard, or similar to the bottom of a 600, seeing that they have a radio trigger built in. Just a massive waste of money, bag space batteries, weight... well everything reason I bought the 600EX-RT, and not just pocket wizards for my (now sold off) 580EXII's! I'm sure I am an exception, and for every other use, they have proved faultless... but trust me to need the one option, that it can't seem to do :( Hopefully someone can come up with this, I'm still hoping that I have just overlooked something!
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Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2014, 12:37:45 AM »
for some reason Canon don't support flash use and bracketing exposures at the same time.

They probably saved this for Magic Lantern which enables it :->

Massive +1... just imagine, ML on Speedlights, on the possibilities are endless. ML, if you are listening Second Curtain Remote, and Remote head zooming please!!!
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privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2014, 01:19:24 AM »
for some reason Canon don't support flash use and bracketing exposures at the same time.


They probably saved this for Magic Lantern which enables it :->


Massive +1... just imagine, ML on Speedlights, on the possibilities are endless. ML, if you are listening Second Curtain Remote, and Remote head zooming please!!!


The YN-E3-RT allows second curtain sync, but I fail to see what use it is 99.9999999999999% of the time.

"Individual Slave" was a way of faking Group Mode pre Group Mode, you could force any number of slaves into Manual and have others in ETTL, but you had to go to each Manual Slave to adjust the power, which was seen as a huge disadvantage, and you had/have no Remote Release option. You can still do the "Individual Slave" thing with the 600's, but you lose the REL option, and you resort to the optical range.

You'd be far better off either adjusting your distances for effective flash exposure for the handheld 600, or using ND gels on it to adjust the power. This sample book comes with ND filter swatches that are the perfect size.



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privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2014, 01:29:59 AM »
This guy has apparently perfected the technique you are aiming for:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2011/09/mike-kelley-two-speedlight.html

He is selling an 8-our DVD on this technique:

http://fstoppers.com/how-to-photograph-real-estate-architecture-and-interiors-tutorial-with-mike-kelley


Yes, this is exactly what I am looking to achieve, but with the built in radio tech, in the 600's. He either uses dumb optical, or Pocketwizards.

It just seems stupid, to clip a Pocketwizard, or similar to the bottom of a 600, seeing that they have a radio trigger built in. Just a massive waste of money, bag space batteries, weight... well everything reason I bought the 600EX-RT, and not just pocket wizards for my (now sold off) 580EXII's! I'm sure I am an exception, and for every other use, they have proved faultless... but trust me to need the one option, that it can't seem to do :( Hopefully someone can come up with this, I'm still hoping that I have just overlooked something!


He used to use dumb radio. Then he tried the PW, now he uses the 600's.

This is exactly what I do and I have never had a need to adjust the in hand flash power. The layered in shots give a huge amount of latitude, first with exposure, then with curves, then with opacity.

People who actually do this love the 600's and it is working well for them. In fact I know one real estate shooter for Sotheby's who has shot Nikon for over 30 years, and has got a 5D MkIII just to use the 600's and the 17 TS-E.
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Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2014, 03:28:39 AM »
This guy has apparently perfected the technique you are aiming for:

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2011/09/mike-kelley-two-speedlight.html

He is selling an 8-our DVD on this technique:

http://fstoppers.com/how-to-photograph-real-estate-architecture-and-interiors-tutorial-with-mike-kelley


Yes, this is exactly what I am looking to achieve, but with the built in radio tech, in the 600's. He either uses dumb optical, or Pocketwizards.

It just seems stupid, to clip a Pocketwizard, or similar to the bottom of a 600, seeing that they have a radio trigger built in. Just a massive waste of money, bag space batteries, weight... well everything reason I bought the 600EX-RT, and not just pocket wizards for my (now sold off) 580EXII's! I'm sure I am an exception, and for every other use, they have proved faultless... but trust me to need the one option, that it can't seem to do :( Hopefully someone can come up with this, I'm still hoping that I have just overlooked something!


He used to use dumb radio. Then he tried the PW, now he uses the 600's.

This is exactly what I do and I have never had a need to adjust the in hand flash power. The layered in shots give a huge amount of latitude, first with exposure, then with curves, then with opacity.

People who actually do this love the 600's and it is working well for them. In fact I know one real estate shooter for Sotheby's who has shot Nikon for over 30 years, and has got a 5D MkIII just to use the 600's and the 17 TS-E.


I see the Mike Kelley started with Optical flashes, and then pocket wizards, but I can't find anywhere where he says that he is now using 600's. Do you know where you read this? I'd love this to be true, as it means there must be a way of getting around this.

As for you real estate shooter for Sotheby's... it's great to hear that some people are switching from Nikon to Canon, on this forum, it always seems to be that Canon can't keep up, or isn't competitive anymore! Do you know how he is shooting hit flashes? Are they just in E-TTL, or is he having to return to the camera, to redial in the manual flash exposure, anytime he wants a change?

Thank you for you time

Steve
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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2014, 03:28:39 AM »

RC

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2014, 09:19:54 AM »
...Do you know, can I have the off camera flash in my hand as the master, and then have all the controls on the remote flash. I know that I can set it up to Master Linked Shot, but I can't see a way of achieving it this way.

Yes.  In fact a viable work around for you might be to get a 33' OCF ETTL cord.  This will allow you to have the master flash in your hand while connected to the camera's hot shoe up to 33' away.  I use to have one of these prior to switching to the 600EX radio system.  They're well made and work great.

http://ocfgear.com/

Get the 33' model, it's a non-coiled cord and moves nicely.

Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2014, 03:29:32 AM »
...Do you know, can I have the off camera flash in my hand as the master, and then have all the controls on the remote flash. I know that I can set it up to Master Linked Shot, but I can't see a way of achieving it this way.

Yes.  In fact a viable work around for you might be to get a 33' OCF ETTL cord.  This will allow you to have the master flash in your hand while connected to the camera's hot shoe up to 33' away.  I use to have one of these prior to switching to the 600EX radio system.  They're well made and work great.

http://ocfgear.com/

Get the 33' model, it's a non-coiled cord and moves nicely.


Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm really looking at doing this wirelessly, preferably with triggering with radio, rather than optical
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2014, 07:36:37 AM »
Thank you for the suggestion, but I'm really looking at doing this wirelessly, preferably with triggering with radio, rather than optical

So, given the advice above, it sounds like you have three options:

  • Wait for Canon to implement the feature you want
  • Spend hundreds of dollars on Pocketwizards
  • Spend a few dollars on some ND gels

I don't know about you, but the third one sounds pretty good to me.
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privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2014, 01:53:24 PM »
Steven,

You are making far more work out of this than it is.

First, you cannot use ETTL, it just is not what ETTL is designed for. Second, taking just the small highlighted section illuminated by the hand held 600 has masses of exposure latitude because of the way you can adjust the exposure and then blend it. That is why nobody I know brackets the in hand flash, just know that you get the rough exposure you want of anything at a certain distance; I know f8 and 10 feet @ half power gives me a second story burst, at 20 feet it is a ground floor burst.

Myself, and everybody who I know that does this, just uses manual flash mode and pops away, if you don't have the remote viewing capability just keep varying your flash to subject distance, zoom setting, and angles.

But, because this question has been bugging me and you clearly don't want to go the ND filter gel route I have come up with a work around using just the 600's.

First, put the on camera unit (ST-E3-RT or 600-EX-RT) in Group mode, second, set each group to M and a different setting such that you would want to bracket, third, set the in hand flash to Group A, take the shot with the REL option. Then change the in hand flash to the next Group B, take a shot, then change the in hand flash to the next Group C, take the shot etc etc. This will give you five different exposures from the in hand flash.
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Steven_urwin

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2014, 05:04:05 PM »
Steven,

You are making far more work out of this than it is.

First, you cannot use ETTL, it just is not what ETTL is designed for. Second, taking just the small highlighted section illuminated by the hand held 600 has masses of exposure latitude because of the way you can adjust the exposure and then blend it. That is why nobody I know brackets the in hand flash, just know that you get the rough exposure you want of anything at a certain distance; I know f8 and 10 feet @ half power gives me a second story burst, at 20 feet it is a ground floor burst.

Myself, and everybody who I know that does this, just uses manual flash mode and pops away, if you don't have the remote viewing capability just keep varying your flash to subject distance, zoom setting, and angles.

But, because this question has been bugging me and you clearly don't want to go the ND filter gel route I have come up with a work around using just the 600's.

First, put the on camera unit (ST-E3-RT or 600-EX-RT) in Group mode, second, set each group to M and a different setting such that you would want to bracket, third, set the in hand flash to Group A, take the shot with the REL option. Then change the in hand flash to the next Group B, take a shot, then change the in hand flash to the next Group C, take the shot etc etc. This will give you five different exposures from the in hand flash.

Private Design, I think that this is possibly the smartest workaround imaginable! Thank you for this. I could just use ND filters, I'm sure, but I'm just loving this solution.

I agree that there is a lot of latitude to play with, but I can imagine certain senarios where I would want to go from close to both ends of the power spectrum between two shots, and I might not want to return to camera to set this (highlighting a feature, to filling a secondary room).

Also, when I'm trying to pin point the lighting to highlight a certain feature, I don't really want to be moving in and out, to change flash power, so that is why I have seemed a little against this option.




Thank you to everyone who has worked on a solution for me, thank you for you time!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2014, 05:05:49 PM by Steven_urwin »
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privatebydesign

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2014, 06:02:48 PM »
Glad you like the suggestion  :)

As an added feature you can store that Group M and five different power levels settings so you don't have to input them each time. Menu 4 - Memory - Save, and to get them back, Menu 4 - Memory - Load.
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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2014, 06:02:48 PM »

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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 12:55:01 AM »
Steven,

You are making far more work out of this than it is.

First, you cannot use ETTL, it just is not what ETTL is designed for. Second, taking just the small highlighted section illuminated by the hand held 600 has masses of exposure latitude because of the way you can adjust the exposure and then blend it. That is why nobody I know brackets the in hand flash, just know that you get the rough exposure you want of anything at a certain distance; I know f8 and 10 feet @ half power gives me a second story burst, at 20 feet it is a ground floor burst.

Myself, and everybody who I know that does this, just uses manual flash mode and pops away, if you don't have the remote viewing capability just keep varying your flash to subject distance, zoom setting, and angles.

But, because this question has been bugging me and you clearly don't want to go the ND filter gel route I have come up with a work around using just the 600's.

First, put the on camera unit (ST-E3-RT or 600-EX-RT) in Group mode, second, set each group to M and a different setting such that you would want to bracket, third, set the in hand flash to Group A, take the shot with the REL option. Then change the in hand flash to the next Group B, take a shot, then change the in hand flash to the next Group C, take the shot etc etc. This will give you five different exposures from the in hand flash.

This a pure genius solution. It's so simple!
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Re: 600EX-RT Manual Question
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2014, 12:55:01 AM »