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Author Topic: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?  (Read 4510 times)

Flake

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1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« on: October 21, 2011, 03:53:47 AM »
For me it was really dissapointing to find that wireless file transfer and GPS are optional extras no doubt at as stupid a price as the previous add ons.  It's a dissapointment that some compact cameras can manage this, and I can only conclude that Canon has made this decision to deliberately milk photographers for more money, (I wonder if Nikon will include this in their new launches).
So we're unlikely to see these features in a 5D MkIII, but a new metering system?  That would be welcome.  I can't see the customiseable lens mount buttons making it over (and I don't really see that as much of a loss),

But there don't appear to be many new features on this camera, which is also a dissapointment, sure Iso is improved, as is autofocus, frames per second, and no doubt image quality, but these are developments of existing features, where are the new ones?

Am I missing something? Are there features here that haven't been reported, that might make it from the flagship down onto lesser models?

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1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« on: October 21, 2011, 03:53:47 AM »

Polansky

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 06:41:20 AM »
For me it was really dissapointing to find that wireless file transfer and GPS are optional extras no doubt at as stupid a price as the previous add ons.  It's a dissapointment that some compact cameras can manage this, and I can only conclude that Canon has made this decision to deliberately milk photographers for more money, (I wonder if Nikon will include this in their new launches).
So we're unlikely to see these features in a 5D MkIII, but a new metering system?  That would be welcome.  I can't see the customiseable lens mount buttons making it over (and I don't really see that as much of a loss),

But there don't appear to be many new features on this camera, which is also a dissapointment, sure Iso is improved, as is autofocus, frames per second, and no doubt image quality, but these are developments of existing features, where are the new ones?

Am I missing something? Are there features here that haven't been reported, that might make it from the flagship down onto lesser models?


Meaby its better to start reading the 1Dx whitepaper (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_1d_x_explained.do) before you start whining there's nothing new.

Its a complete rebuild with many new features and technically way better then the 1DIV.

1Dx is a workhorse, not a balet danser showing off of what it can do....

neuroanatomist

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 03:08:53 PM »
Meaby its better to start reading the 1Dx whitepaper... before you start whining there's nothing new.

Whining?   :o  Flake has a very good point.  The developments/improvements to existing features were acknowledged, the question is what about the 1D X is new?  Most of the features mentioned in the white paper and elsewhere are incremental improvements, or inclusion of features previously found other Canon dSLRs.  More AF points.  Faster frame rate.  Better metering.  More durable shutter.  AF modes like the 7D.  M.Fn button like the 7D.  Transmissive LCD viewfinder like the 7D (but improved in that the focus screen can be changed).  Dual axis level like the 7D.  Better self-cleaning system for the sensor.  Etc.  What is really new on the 1D X? 

Flake pointed out one thing - the dual customizable buttons near the lens mount.  Another is the LAN port.  The second joystick can be considered new, I suppose.  I don't expect the above will be seen in non 1-series bodies.  Anything else?  I will say that they've been creative in some cases - for example, the gyros that provide the dual axis level are also used to detect panning motion during shooting, and it will stop the AF system from switching subjects if you pan past an obstacle like a light post or referee. 

It's a minor thing, but the 'status log' is new and will likely make its way into lesser models.  The better cleaning system will trickle down, and the improved metering will probably be seen future cameras. 
« Last Edit: October 21, 2011, 03:10:45 PM by neuroanatomist »
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pereubu

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2011, 05:35:12 PM »
Most probably 1DX goes for TIPA award, pro dSLR category. Can't wait to see more picture samples of the new gapless sensor. A nice little surprise on this camera is the introduction of multiple exposure (9 times max.!!) previously left to post-processing software. We hadn't seen this feature onboard since top of the line film cameras. I hope this does pass to 5D3 such being the enthusiast's model.

Now that ISO is better I think it's time to improve on B&W. We're missing film-like GRAIN. Not pixelated stuff or post-processing stuff, grain. This needs to be worked out fundamentally in sensor design, maybe requires significantly higher resolution (left for 5D3?).

Also, I wouldn't consider lower line models just a downsized 1DX. New features could exist in say 5D, 7D series and be absent on 1DX,  for example touch screen LCD for which Canon already have the patent. Also 5D3 most definitely will come with much higher resolution than 1DX as a perfectly acceptable 4-5fps allows so for that model's target group.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2011, 04:17:06 PM by pereubu »

rocketdesigner

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2011, 07:05:06 PM »
It's a dissapointment that some compact cameras can manage this ...


Don't forget 1080/60 slow mo ...  shocking that Canon kicked the concept to the curb (I have read Canon's rationale). It is absolutely inexcusable that full HD slo-mo is not included in the flagship.


But there don't appear to be many new features on this camera, which is also a dissapointment, sure Iso is improved, as is autofocus, frames per second, and no doubt image quality, but these are developments of existing features, where are the new ones?


From the standpoint of video features, yours was similar to my initial reaction. Ethernet connector ... Yes, it will allow for faster download and networking, but its not exactly 21st century new technology. I was hoping that Canon would introduce a wireless, live raw video output ... something truly groundbreaking. But we are left with stitching of video clips to increase record time to 29 minutes .... seems to be nothing more than a workaround.

Where is the Canon HDSLR model that is engineered to optimize video acquisition?

photophreek

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2011, 07:11:46 PM »
I've not gone through all the featire set in detail of the 1D X, just what was included in the press release.  I had to chuckle about the customizeable  buttons as this new thing.  Nice feature as well as the dual joystick controls, but my wife's 50d has a customizeable function button.  I'll probably be a little more enthusiastic once I see reviews/tests and low light images, but as it stands, are we really getting $6800 worth of revolutionary stuff?

tt

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »
Presumably someone could make a 3rd party accessory - that basically takes input from the ethernet cable, then can cache the files coming off, then relay?

Is the slowmo 1080p a differentiating feature that we'll see in November - that Canon are trying to differentiate between their more video camera and high end dSLR products?

Don't think there are any full size images yet of the low light (there's a page showing small pictures of it at 12800 that don't look too bad but you can't really tell).
Seems a pretty solid update to the top end.

Have Canon raised the price of their most expensive dSLR back then? Seeing the 1D-X as being one part of their future line up, how will the 7D and 5D MkII fit?

Main possible trickle down incremental improvements:
Improved sensor - 7D Mark II, 5D Mark III
Improved native ISO -  7D Mark II, 5D Mark III
Exposure Control / RGB metering - ?
Facial recognition - ?
Improved AF sensors (61 Point AD) 41 cross type, , All 61 sensitive up to f/5.6, 20cross type to f/4.0, 5 diagonal  cross potions at f/2.8
I'd imagine many want the AF to go to the 5D MkII and the 7D MkII - Canon seems widely acknowledged to be lacking here in comparison to Nikon.
Ethernet - Unlikely?
Bluetooth/GPS - Shame its modular. Presumably possible as an optional for 5D MkII, 7D as currently
High Speed fps - Only the 1D-X, 7DMkII stays at similar speed as currently.
Enhanced EOS HD Video - Probably to 7DMkII and 5DMkIII?
Dual memory Card - 5D Mk II also?
Improved shutter - 7D Mark II?
How does Canon differentiate between the 7DMkII and the 5DMkII, including HD Video wise? Would assume that 5D MkIII gets the ALL-i (so a compressed, and less compressed video ), longer recording.
Use of DIGIC V - Assumed to happen to all new EOS models?
Use of multiple DIGIC V - Helps processing for high fps, or to have a DIGIC V and a DIGIC IV doing AE and AF. 7D Mark II and 5D MarkII?
Maybe 1xDIGIC V, 1xDIGIC IV for both?

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »

thepancakeman

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2011, 07:40:59 PM »
Is the slowmo 1080p a differentiating feature that we'll see in November - that Canon are trying to differentiate between their more video camera and high end dSLR products?

This is my thinking as well--that they are going to differentiate between a flagship STILLS camera that also does a decent job at video, and a "flagship" DSLR that focuses (i.e. has all the bells and whistles) on VIDEO but still takes really good stills.  Maybe some clarity on 11/3?

rocketdesigner

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2011, 09:00:41 PM »
Is the slowmo 1080p a differentiating feature that we'll see in November - that Canon are trying to differentiate between their more video camera and high end dSLR products?


This is my thinking as well--that they are going to differentiate between a flagship STILLS camera that also does a decent job at video, and a "flagship" DSLR that focuses (i.e. has all the bells and whistles) on VIDEO but still takes really good stills.  Maybe some clarity on 11/3?


I think the 11/3 is Canons "head to head" with RED -- who also has a major announcement - most likely their Red Scarlet... something about bringing a "bazooka to a knife fight", says Jim Jannard, Red Chief nutcase..

This guy has taken numerous potshots at Canon over the years for producing a line skipping video HDSRL ... But, as NoFilmSchool.com Koo aptly put it ... "they're crazy":

http://nofilmschool.com/2011/10/ali-frazier-camera-world-november-3rd/

unfocused

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 11:30:16 PM »
I don't think it's any real surprise that there aren't a bunch of "new" features on the 1D X. This is clearly aimed at the professional market.

It isn't unusual or uncommon in any market for the professional-level tools to be fairly conservative in implementing new features. In any industry, professionals put a premium on the reliability, durability and quality of the tools. Added features don't sell products at this level.

The Ethernet connection is a good example of how Canon has targeted this to professionals. I read many comments disparaging the Ethernet connection, but it is clear Canon did their research and determined that this was important for the market they are targeting. From their descriptions it appears they found that sports photographers need a fast, hard-wired connection to transfer images from the playing field to the photo editor in the stands. Most of us might find this unimportant, but I imagine for photographers shooting the Olympics or major league sports, the ability to instantly transfer files to an editor in the field will be a real benefit.

That's just one example, but I think the main point is that this camera was designed for a very specific audience.

Because of that, there may not be many features that trickle down exactly as implemented in the 1D X. But, I would agree with much of tt's list. I also would not be surprised to see more features trickle down to a 7D II than a 5D III, as Canon focuses on the 7D (or some other 1.6 crop sensor model) as an alternative for professionals needing the extra reach that they formerly had with the 1.3 crop sensor.
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Renzokuken

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2011, 03:54:00 AM »
I don't think it's any real surprise that there aren't a bunch of "new" features on the 1D X. This is clearly aimed at the professional market.

It isn't unusual or uncommon in any market for the professional-level tools to be fairly conservative in implementing new features. In any industry, professionals put a premium on the reliability, durability and quality of the tools. Added features don't sell products at this level.
~
That's just one example, but I think the main point is that this camera was designed for a very specific audience.

That made a lot of sense. Thanks for sharing.
I certainly do hope for more new and significant "innovations" or "features" in their non-flagship model
I desire to see dramatic changes to fundamental sensor architecture, but I know I won't be able to see it within the next 3 years or so at least.

I think the most obvious feature/capability that will be pass down to lesser DSLR cameras is the base ISO (rebel or XXXD series). The autofocus advancement will probably reach the next 7D and no further.

rocketdesigner

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2011, 08:59:37 PM »
I don't think it's any real surprise that there aren't a bunch of "new" features on the 1D X. This is clearly aimed at the professional market.

It isn't unusual or uncommon in any market for the professional-level tools to be fairly conservative in implementing new features.

As a generalized statement for the manufacturing sector as whole, I would agree. I am sure there are loads of companies which have conservatism not only in their mission statement, but flowing through their veins.

Lest we forget, Canon is not building tractors (no offense, John Deere) ..... I believe Canon is the market leader in a very specific, 21st century technology sector that lives and dies on its ability to innovate.

For example, Kodak recently announced bankruptcy plans. We all know about Kodak's dominance in film stock.  The fact that they saw the digital wave drown them is simply because they failed to continue to innovate, to take calculated risks. If they had invested in future technology, I guarantee virtually everyone today would be popping Kodak branded SD, CF, MS et al cards into our digital appliances.

Kodak failed to innovate, to invest in the future, to take reasoned chances. They should have emerged from their market share as a supplier of film stock as the new leader in "digital film" stock.

Japanese companies are conservative from a cultural standpoint. In the release of the 1DX, Canon simply reinforced that cultural stereotype.


Woody

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 09:39:24 PM »
I hope the 1DX has a wide dynamic range of 14 eV at low ISO. And I hope it spills into their other sensors.

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 09:39:24 PM »

Nostrada

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #13 on: October 22, 2011, 11:08:21 PM »
I appreciate technology and new stuff at least as much as the next guy and probably a tad bit more, but are we getting a bit carried away here?

The purpose of a camera is to make it as easy as possible to take pictures of the highest quality (from a technical standpoint, at least - I am not saying that a great camera should actually do your job). Having said that, the Canon 1D X looks, at least on paper, to accomplish this. Better sensor, better AF, better IQ, more speed, better noise control, longer shutter speed and so on. Are we really going to complain that it does not include an expresso maker or a toaster?

It seems silly that we can argue that a camera, which we agree looks like it will be a winner insofar as the IQ, AF, noise, speed etc are concerned, does not include some features that are available on a compact camera. The compact camera is, by and large, aimed at people that want everything in a small, convenient package, and get in return a little bit of everything and the small, convenient package. The D1 X is not aimed at the same people. If you pay 6.8k for a body you'll fork over 500 USD for some extras that are not essential for 95% of the users. And yes, I believe that if they were essential for at least 50% of the intended users Canon would have included them.

In related news, most supercars do not have seats as comfy as a Toyota nor do they have the same legroom and headroom that a boring Honda has and cost considerably more. Having said that, there's no doubt in my mind which one I'd want (not need, that's a different thing altogether).

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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2011, 01:38:59 AM »
As a wedding/portrait/candid photographer, I am intrigued by the facial recognition feature.  Not merely recognizing a generic human face; I had that on a two-year old Canon P&S.  But to recognize and lock onto a specific human face...wow!  You program the bride's face in there, you're out on that dance floor, and the AF is locked on her face and keeping it in constant focus.  Not to mention metering her face for proper exposure; no more trying to compensate for that white dress blowing everything out.  And the groom's black tux won't be sucking up all the light and overexposing his face.  Being able to maintain a constant, pleasing composition and let the camera worry about keeping their faces in focus - all you have to do is grab the shot at the right moment.  Portraits of toddlers/young children - same rationale and benefit.  I would LOVE to see this feature, if it works as described, find it's way onto the 5DIII and/or the MP King that's sure to come out...
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Re: 1D x which new features will be carried to lesser cameras?
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2011, 01:38:59 AM »