December 18, 2014, 07:00:02 PM

Author Topic: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor  (Read 33695 times)

wsmith96

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2014, 11:04:48 PM »
Here's how I would clean up this image.  Of course this would look better seeing the entire image.

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2014, 11:04:48 PM »

wsmith96

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2014, 11:08:02 PM »
Here's the complete image with noise reduction and exposure adjustment applied.
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wsmith96

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2014, 11:20:58 PM »
I know that this is not a fair comparison as the example here wasn't taken in the same location, but here you can see that at ISO 1600 on the T1i, it looks similar to the output on the previous 5D III examples.   So, crop ISO 1600 is similar to FF ISO 6400 in low light situations. 

I hope these examples help you make your decision.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 11:24:03 PM by wsmith96 »
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wsmith96

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2014, 11:26:44 PM »
Here's the full image of the T1i example with noise reduction and exposure adjustments applied.
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Hjalmarg1

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #34 on: February 20, 2014, 12:03:49 AM »
Hi everybody  :)

So as I move into my 3rd year of photography, I find my 500D isn't able to help my take my photography to the next level and its beginning to feel like my L series lenses are begging to shoot on a full frame body.

I've never had the chance to shoot full frame so most of what I know is pure theory derived from reading reviews etc online.

With South Africa's economy in a bit of trouble, I can get a hardly used 5D mkii for a reasonable price so I'm considering taking that.

Just what can I expect in terms of image quality and noise performance? Is the IQ of a full frame substantially better than a crops? Will I be able to take relatively noise free images at say ISO 3200?

The reviews seem to indicate that the native system for L series glass is full frame. Does this mean that I will experience a dramatic improvement in IQ?

The more I read, it seems that crop bodies have a singular advantage over full frame and that is the increase in focal length.

Can you guys chip in and throw some opinions and facts my way please?

Thanks in advance everybody.

I have owned the 24-70mm f2.8L(I) for more than 2 years and I hadn't used it much because isn't wide enough and some other lenses offered better sharpness. I sold with some regreat my 7D and some EF-S lenses, before owning the 60D for a while, and bought the 5D3, after considering the 6D because I shot action very often.
No way back, my 24-70mm f2.8L hasn't ever been that sharp before and it's currently my go-to lens. This combo is a little heavy but I will get used to. Otherwise, if you are not in action photography get the 6D and you'll never regreat.
Body: 5DIII. Prime Lenses: 15mm f2.8, 100mm f2.8L IS, 35mm f2 IS, Extender EF 2X III.
Zoom Lenses: 16-35mm f4L IS, 24-70mm f2.8L, 70-200mm f2.8L IS II. Others: Flash 580EX II, 270EX II & MR-14EX II

nc0b

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #35 on: February 20, 2014, 02:08:10 AM »
I have two crop and two full frame bodies, and for me it usually comes down to wanting the wider angle coverage I get from a given focal length lens. Walking around Hoover dam with a FF and my 24-105mm resulted in an excellent zoom range. A 1.6 crop factor would not have worked as well.  Shooting a dance floor with the 6D and 70-200mm f/2.8 II wide open was again the correct combination. In that case the zoom would have been way too long with crop body. Often shooting wildlife the crop is a better choice, due to the extra reach, though I have done better with birds in flight with the 6D and 400mm f/5.6 than with the 60D, for some reason. Having started with crop and now having both, I would say I grab the full frame 80% of the time. On a trip in the car I usually try to keep three of the bodies with a lens attached so I am not fumbling with mounting a lens. Unless you simply have no choice from a monetary standpoint, keep your existing body and add a frill frame.
6D, 60D, 5D Classic & 40D. 400 f/5.6, 300 f/4, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II & f/4 IS, 85 f/1.8, 50 f/2.5, 24-105 f/4, 15-85 f/4-5.6 & Zeiss 18mm f/3.5.

Vossie

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 02:55:26 AM »
My recommendation would be ff as well. With the shallow DoF it gives you new creative possibilities (the statement that better gear does not give you better photos is not true in my opinion).

Depending on the budget you can choose between the 6D and 5D3. I would certainly not recommend to sell off your 24-70 II and use primes only.

For macro work, a good flash bracket, a good tripod and a macro rail can be good investments.
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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #36 on: February 20, 2014, 02:55:26 AM »

Sella174

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #37 on: February 20, 2014, 03:39:42 AM »
I honestly cannot agree with the recommendation that the OP keeps the 24-70mm lens. He's a photography student. He still has to learn and define his version of the art. If he uses the 24-70mm, then IMHO, his photographs will look like everybody else's photographs and he won't develop a style of his own that's marketable in a very competitive business. (Over here in South Africa, every idiot with a "Rebel" and Sigma budget zoom considers herself a "pro" photographer ... heck, scratch "pro" ... considers herself a photographer.)
Happily ignoring the laws of physics and the rules of photography to create better pictures.

rs

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2014, 06:09:14 AM »
I honestly cannot agree with the recommendation that the OP keeps the 24-70mm lens. He's a photography student. He still has to learn and define his version of the art. If he uses the 24-70mm, then IMHO, his photographs will look like everybody else's photographs and he won't develop a style of his own that's marketable in a very competitive business. (Over here in South Africa, every idiot with a "Rebel" and Sigma budget zoom considers herself a "pro" photographer ... heck, scratch "pro" ... considers herself a photographer.)
I get what you're saying, but defining your own version of an art doesn't require being focal length limited and/or having inferior lenses. What's wrong with owning the ultimate, and not getting rid of it?
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aj1575

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2014, 07:06:00 AM »
Here are also some samples of macros shoot with a 500D. Pretty amazing work I think.

I personally think that better equipment won't make you a better photographer, better equipment just makes taking pictures more convenient, easier and more fun.

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=canon%20500d%20macro

jdramirez

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #40 on: February 20, 2014, 07:06:26 AM »
This past weekend I took a 5D III with me my daughter's dive meet.  I was pretty excited after what I was reading in regards to ISO performance in lower light.   I was thinking that this would be great compared to my T1i that I've got because natatoriums typically have crummy lighting in them.

Now, I'm not a pro, and I'm sure that it was me, but I pushed the ISO up to 6400 here to get a 1/1600 shutter speed to stop action of divers doing flips.   I cropped this image in LR5, but did not apply any noise reduction (color or luminance).   I wish I had my T1i with me so I could take some comparison shot, but I've attached and example of what I got during this trip.  Most of my pictures have similar output. 

After seeing this, I know that the 5D is a superior camera in all regards, but I felt this output was ho-hum.   Again, before I get beat up for speaking blasphemy - I'm not a pro, I was shooting in manual, and I just received the camera the day before the meet, so I didn't have much time to adjust to it.  I'm sure this is due to learning curve.

In this circumstance and from this distance I probably would have brought along a flash.

The image looks like it was still under exposed which is why there is so much grain...

And it definitely needs some grain reduction...
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

bholliman

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #41 on: February 20, 2014, 07:20:14 AM »
I recommend full frame.  A 5D3 if you shoot lots of action and wildlife, a 6D if not.  Improved low light/high ISO capability and better ability to control your depth of field were the main reasons I made the switch.

I honestly cannot agree with the recommendation that the OP keeps the 24-70mm lens. He's a photography student. He still has to learn and define his version of the art. If he uses the 24-70mm, then IMHO, his photographs will look like everybody else's photographs and he won't develop a style of his own that's marketable in a very competitive business. (Over here in South Africa, every idiot with a "Rebel" and Sigma budget zoom considers herself a "pro" photographer ... heck, scratch "pro" ... considers herself a photographer.)

The OP already owns three primes (50 1.8, 100 Macro and 400 5.6) according to their equipment list.  So, I really don't understand your suggestion to sell the 24-70 2.8 II.  I agree with the premise that zooms often allow the photographer to become lazy and not work for the best framing and composition.  But, I think selling maybe the best standard zoom lens available just to force working with primes seems a bit extreme. 

I have both zooms and primes and at times just take one prime on outings, or even restrict myself to just using a single prime for a week at a time to force myself to work on shot composition when restricted to one focal length.  It is definitely a beneficial exercise.  The OP can learn a great deal from use of primes and still have the flexibility of the 24-70 2.8 for situations (parties, receptions, festivals and events) where you will miss shots if you don't have a zoom mounted.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 07:23:51 AM by bholliman »
Bodies:  6D, EOS-M
EF Lenses: 35mm f/2.0 IS, 100mm f/2.8L IS Macro, 135mm f/2.0L, 16-35mm f/4L IS, 24-70mm f/2.8L II, 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II; EF-M Lenses: 22 f/2, 18-55
Speedlites: ST-E3-RT, 600EX-RT (x3)

jdramirez

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2014, 07:31:49 AM »
I'm also wandering between 5D2 and 6D. Upgrade from 600D, though.

I'd lean towards the 6D.  Wifi, gps, and better low light performance... both are great... but the 6D in terms of shear performance is better.

And for reference... I hated the 6d when it came out.  I thought it was a slightly better version of the 5d mkii and at the same time.. slightly worse... but I've changed my mind.  If you do portrait or landscape... it's perfect... if you shoot action... the 5d mkiii is a good alternative to the 1dx and its cousins.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:16:31 AM by jdramirez »
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #42 on: February 20, 2014, 07:31:49 AM »

wsmith96

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #43 on: February 20, 2014, 07:39:11 AM »
[quote author=jdramirez link=topic=19666.msg370801#msg370801 date=139289798

In this circumstance and from this distance I probably would have brought along a flash.

The image looks like it was still under exposed which is why there is so much grain...

And it definitely needs some grain reduction...
[/quote]

I agree that a flash would have helped me here.   From what I read about how good FF low light performance was, I did not bring a flash as I thought I would not need it.

Now, don't take my experience as a recommendation for a crop camera.  I was just illustrating the noise level advantage that the FF camera has over a crop camera.  YMMV of course.
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jdramirez

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 08:09:33 AM »
I honestly cannot agree with the recommendation that the OP keeps the 24-70mm lens. He's a photography student. He still has to learn and define his version of the art. If he uses the 24-70mm, then IMHO, his photographs will look like everybody else's photographs and he won't develop a style of his own that's marketable in a very competitive business. (Over here in South Africa, every idiot with a "Rebel" and Sigma budget zoom considers herself a "pro" photographer ... heck, scratch "pro" ... considers herself a photographer.)

Dictating that he should only use primes is limiting his artistic options.  I did this really awful long exposure where I zoomed in during the middle of the shot... It wasn't good... but it also isn't achievable using a prime. 

Let him decide how and why... just because he has a zoom doesn't mean he won't zoom with his feet if he composes the shot he wants.

And shooting at wife open apertures and calling it artistic vision is a fallacy unto itself. 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2014, 08:17:08 AM by jdramirez »
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #44 on: February 20, 2014, 08:09:33 AM »