October 20, 2014, 09:27:52 AM

Author Topic: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor  (Read 29954 times)

mackguyver

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2014, 02:20:03 PM »
There are those who read a manual from cover to cover before flipping the "on" switch. Then there are those who once they find the "on" switch, just jump in learning as they go.

And don’t forget that subset of people that flip the on switch and jump in, then 3 hours later in hysterics, post on internet chat forums about something that is clearly addressed on page 7.
That only applies to Canon - have you ever tried to use a Panasonic or other camera with a lousy manual and locked features?  Example with my Panasonic LX-5: Flash is disabled if bust mode is enabled. Period. I took it to an event once and couldn't turn the !@#$ing camera flash on no matter what mode was selected and the 30 pages of menus didn't help.  Weeks later, I read the manual and found a "Tip" explaining this "feature".  Canon cameras may have some faults, but bad manuals, uinintuitive controls, bad menus, and self-defeating features are not among them :)

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2014, 02:20:03 PM »

Larry

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2014, 02:25:16 PM »
If you can take amazing pictures, then that makes you a photographer. Post-processing makes you an editor, and although thats what it takes to be photographer nowadays i.e. be both photographer & editor... It wasn't like that back in the day. And you have to agree...

Nope. Don't have to agree.

A photograph is a thing. The person who makes the thing is a photograph-er. The thing is not made until the image captured by the camera is made visible on the paper or other viewing surface. This "making" consists of the entire process from choosing/arranging/lighting the subject, adjusting/aiming/operating the camera and doing what one will to get it onto the paper. Ansel has already been mentioned as an example of a "back in the day" photograph-er who certainly made use of his dark room, his enlarger, and whatever other tools he chose, to create his "art". The photographs thusly made have  been greatly admired by many, and few of the admirers fail to call him a "photographer", rather than an "editor". (Ansel the dodger/burner?)

Adams and the numerous other "photographers" one could mention as widely recognized and acclaimed, used the tools available to them in their time, just as we do today. I don't doubt that they would envy us our new tools.

It hardly seems appropriate to try to differentiate a carpenter from a measurer, a sawer or a hammerer. Perhaps we should further distinguish him as a laser level technician, an adhesives  applier, or a plumb(vs. apple)-bobber.

Are we having fun yet?  :-)
 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 03:50:38 PM by Larry »

Marsu42

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2014, 02:51:39 PM »
Nope. Don't have to agree.

+1, I'd like to add that every image from a *d*slr is already postprocessed, or you would see the pattern of the bayer sensor to begin with, so the image already is processed and lens/ca/exposure-"corrected".

Most important: The camera freezes motion that is a blur to your bare eye, has a depth of field characteristic alien to us  and presses a dynamic range you cannot see with the human eye at one time into one image. So why is a jpeg out of camera suddenly sacred and exempt from further modification?

neuroanatomist

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2014, 03:17:27 PM »
So why is a jpeg out of camera suddenly sacred and exempt from further modification?

Because the 'pure photographers' say so.  Come to think of it, Nikon should really have made the Df a JPG-only camera.  ;)
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Larry

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2014, 04:08:25 PM »
Quote from: neuroanatomist
[/quote

I am way over my head in this company!

What does one do with the atoms in a neuroan?

 :P

Skirball

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #140 on: February 24, 2014, 04:10:06 PM »
Quote from: neuroanatomist
[/quote

I am way over my head in this company!

What does one do with the atoms in a neuroan?

 :P

Perhaps you should just focus on perfecting your quoting technique first  ;)

mackguyver

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2014, 04:11:59 PM »
So why is a jpeg out of camera suddenly sacred and exempt from further modification?

Because the 'pure photographers' say so.  Come to think of it, Nikon should really have made the Df a JPG-only camera.  ;)
+1 and it would have made more sense if they had limited you to 36 24 exposures and one ISO setting per day - and a built-in "protection" that would have made it impossible to use a zoom ;)

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2014, 04:11:59 PM »

Larry

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #142 on: February 24, 2014, 04:21:23 PM »
Perhaps you should just focus on perfecting your quoting technique first  ;)

What?

I have an imperfection?

I was afraid it would happen someday!

How can I go on? :-[

( …at least I know how to spell screwball.)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 04:25:45 PM by Larry »

candc

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #143 on: February 24, 2014, 04:27:56 PM »
Ansel Adams was known for saying "50 % of the creative process happens in the darkroom"


Sporgon

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #144 on: February 24, 2014, 04:29:39 PM »
Those who think that an image should be perfect from the camera have clearly never worked with film. Negative film was all about the developing and printing. Those on this thread who call post processing 'editing' and not photography are way off the mark. Post processing ( aka developing and printing) has ways been an integral part of photography.

"But transparencies were straight from the camera"! Not so in the professional world. When I was in my teens and used to assist some pretty well known London photographers even transparencies were 'post processed'. Test strips were developed from a shoot, and then the developing process (generally time) was adjusted depending upon what the initial test clips had shown. Colour was added by duping; that is re photographing the transparency with selective colour. 

Processing is as much photography as firing the shutter; always has been.

I think what Stella is meaning is that as a photographer you can become complacent about exposure when always shooting RAW. There was a staunch advocate of shooting RAW on CR about six months ago, who I think has now left, and he stated that a full stop difference in exposure was neither here nor there. That's a mistake in my opinion. Nailing the optimum exposure for a scene makes for better IQ in the image - thank goodness. I hope that will continue.

jdramirez

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #145 on: February 24, 2014, 04:35:04 PM »
Ansel Adams was known for saying "50 % of the creative process happens in the darkroom"

That was his pickup line at bars...
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jdramirez

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #146 on: February 24, 2014, 04:36:57 PM »
Those who think that an image should be perfect from the camera have clearly never worked with film. Negative film was all about the developing and printing. Those on this thread who call post processing 'editing' and not photography are way off the mark. Post processing ( aka developing and printing) has ways been an integral part of photography.

"But transparencies were straight from the camera"! Not so in the professional world. When I was in my teens and used to assist some pretty well known London photographers even transparencies were 'post processed'. Test strips were developed from a shoot, and then the developing process (generally time) was adjusted depending upon what the initial test clips had shown. Colour was added by duping; that is re photographing the transparency with selective colour. 

Processing is as much photography as firing the shutter; always has been.

I think what Stella is meaning is that as a photographer you can become complacent about exposure when always shooting RAW. There was a staunch advocate of shooting RAW on CR about six months ago, who I think has now left, and he stated that a full stop difference in exposure was neither here nor there. That's a mistake in my opinion. Nailing the optimum exposure for a scene makes for better IQ in the image - thank goodness. I hope that will continue.

I contend that the shroud of tourin was the first raw image... and that definitely was in need of post production.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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Sporgon

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #147 on: February 24, 2014, 04:38:21 PM »
Ansel Adams was known for saying "50 % of the creative process happens in the darkroom"

That was his pickup line at bars...

I thought that was "50 % of the creation process happens in the bedroom"  ;)

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #147 on: February 24, 2014, 04:38:21 PM »

candc

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #148 on: February 24, 2014, 07:57:18 PM »
Ansel Adams was known for saying "50 % of the creative process happens in the darkroom"

That was his pickup line at bars...

I thought that was "50 % of the creation process happens in the bedroom"  ;)

So Ansel Adams walks into a bar, walks up to a smoking hot blond and says "50% of the creative process happens in the darkroom, come with me and I'll show you why they call me tripod"?

dash2k8

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #149 on: February 24, 2014, 08:04:09 PM »
"I contend that the shroud of tourin was the first raw image... and that definitely was in need of post production."

LOL x100

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Re: Full Frame Vs Crop Sensor
« Reply #149 on: February 24, 2014, 08:04:09 PM »