December 20, 2014, 04:17:02 PM

Author Topic: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]  (Read 30835 times)

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 3326
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: March 14, 2014, 02:40:47 AM »
"new" software features I'd love to see:

Built in Intervalometer

Ability to do more than 7 shots bracketed at a time, "pick your own" kind of thing.   I do large HDR exposures in 1/3 stops, typically 20+ frames.  It's a pain to do it quickly.. Would be nice if there was no set limit on the number of bracketed shots.
WOW! "20+ frames" ... could you please post some images and how you put it together?
Cheers
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

canon rumors FORUM

Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #90 on: March 14, 2014, 02:40:47 AM »

Don Haines

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 3583
  • Posting cat pictures on the internet since 1986
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #91 on: March 14, 2014, 05:13:50 AM »
I never said 99.9% had a problem with them. However, I'd be willing to bet it's well more than 10%, probably a good third or more of people definitely have problems with EVFs, for a variety of reasons.

Also, I don't have freakishly good eyesight. I have 20/10 vision, which is very common among people who use corrective lenses. It's just "good" eyesight. I've read enough about people complaining about posterization and pixellation in some of the best EVFs to know I'm definitely not alone on this subject.

Oh, and BTW, yes, pixels in TVs and computer screens DO bug me. I have to take a break every couple of hours when I'm looking at a screen, because I DO get headaches. I've had things called ocular migraines, which, when they occur, can last for days...and they are excruciatingly painful, and drain you of every last ounce of energy you have (as they very often become full blown migraines). I truly cannot wait for UHD TVs to become affordable...the pixels are BEAUTIFULLY small, and in the average 55-65" TV are invisible in less than my current viewing distance. Same goes for 4k computer screens...at roughly the same dimensions as my current 30" screen (31.4" seems to be the key size for higher end 4k computer screens) the pixels are small enough that they would finally be invisible to me at my current viewing distances.

You belittle the situation...but it's only because you haven't experienced it. I'm not just making sh*t up here...I have a legitimate reason for my complaints about current and forthcoming EVFs, and a specific reason why I demand better. I've been a software developer for nearly two decades, and I've been programming since the age of eight. Over the last six months, I've been desperately trying to find an alternative means of making money, because I've had too many migraines over the last couple of years, along with other issues, that working in front of a computer screen eight to nine hours a day, then going home only to need to work in front of another computer screen for several more hours to process my photography, is just too much. I don't want to have to deal with ANOTHER pixelated screen in my next camera as well...just too many freaking pixels! :P

It's also the reason I truly hope that Canon will advance their Transmissive LCD technology. The etched glass focusing screen in an OVF has never caused me any problems, and a TLCD could be programmed to be just as capable as a full EVF, especially with a higher resolution RGB metering sensor.

I see both ends of the spectrum ( pun intended). I have 20/2000 vision, corrected with glasses to 20/10. I am also bothered by the pixels on normal displays and can only look at them so long.... I have to take a break.  I find the apple retina displays far easier on the eyes and can't wait until 4K displays get to a reasonable price.

I also get migraines if I stare at a screen too long programming.. I take a break every hour. I get up, walk around the office, do some stretches, and then back to work.

At least for me, I tend to not spend long periods looking through a viewfinder without breaks, so I am sure that an OVF will not bother me as much as a monitor... Call it personal preference, but at least for me, a high quality OVF, if coupled with decent features, may be preferable to an optical viewfinder.

As to your comment about how many people have problems with EVFs, my feeling is that it is at least three quarters of people who have problems with the current crop of EVFs. As they get better, the percentage will drop, but as things now stand, optical is better.

Yikes, 20/2000 is pretty bad. You must LOOOVE your glasses. :D Years and years ago, it seemed the best I could get was about 20/18 with corrective lenses. Nowadays, with both my glasses and my contacts, I get 20/10. I can pick out a good half or so the characters in the 20/8 line, but 20/10 is my sweet spot.

BTW, I think you used the term "OVF" in a few places where "EVF" was intended (at least, given the context, that's what it seems.) Might want to do a quick edit and replace OVF with EVF where you intended EVF...just so other readers aren't confused.

I agree, EVFs bring certain features to the table. Again, I think that could be done with a higher quality, more capable TLCD layer in an OVF, coupled with a better metering sensor and maybe a dedicated processor (as in the 1D X). I think OVFs could be turned into powerhouse HUDs for us viewfinder junkies, without having to limit the underlying "screen" to something electronic (for us mirror slapper junkies. :P)

I'm also sure that some day, EVF pixel densities will reach a point where the pixels become more "background" than "foreground". I don't ever expect them to become entirely invisible, because I think there is a physical limit that will prevent that occurrence in the first place. Maybe a 5000ppi FF sized EVF set in at about a 1" eye relief would do it for me. If I could get that, in a DSLR sized and shaped body, then I'd be all in. (I don't suspect a wonder would be cheap, though...that's would probably 1D X price range territory for a good while before it reached a level of cost that's more within reach.)
You are right, I did goof up while typing.... I went back and corrected the post...
The best camera is the one in your hands

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5381
  • ... on superhero vacation!
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #92 on: March 14, 2014, 10:04:46 AM »
I do agree this camera will have to be extremely feature rich to be successful.

This is most likely the reason the 7d2 isn't here yet and neither "around the corner" ...

... but the competition is a moving target, the new Nikon 1 v3 has 20fps with servo af, full res 18mp and 40 shows raw buffer (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20018.0) so Canon should better come up with something really interesting or amateur wildlife photogs will switch to mirrorless.

The hybrid (evf/ovf?) viewfinder is the indication Canon is following suite - with a high-fps "mirror flipped up" mode, the days of the mirror-flipping high fps beast seem to be almost over.

Steve

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #93 on: March 14, 2014, 01:44:57 PM »
This is a straw man argument, and not indicative of the average case for bird and wildlife photography. If you are photographing elusive birds, that's one thing. If your on a sandy beach packed full of shorebirds, waterfowl, etc. then your eye is going to be looking through the VF far more than 10% of the time.

I'm not going to say I spend 100% of my time looking through the VF, however if there are subjects in view, my eye is to the camera 80% of the time. There have been times here in Colorado, in the heart of the spring and fall bird migrations, where I've been able to set up, lay down on the ground near a popular shorebird spot, and spend the bulk of several hours with my eye through the lens...often to take pictures, sometimes just to observe their behavior.

That's not what a strawman argument is.  I was responding to someone who said they were looking through a viewfinder for hours at a time.  I find, in my personal experience and that of the other photographers I've observed, that statement to be a bit of an exaggeration.  I've shot shorebirds during migration, snowy owl irruptions, and from hides with extremely active water features.  Most recently, I was shooting a college basketball tournament with back to back games from 8am to 10pm for four days.  I'd say 10% viewfinder time, maybe 20% on the high end, is about right, even in target rich environments.  From my experience, most photographers spend more time talking to each other than actually taking pictures.

As I said in my other two posts and I'll repeat it again, if an EVF bothers you it bothers you and nothing I say is going to change that.  It sounds to me though, that your problem is well within the scope of 'atypical'.  I've never heard that complaint from anyone else and the reason I asked you about it was because from all the reading and talking about the problems with EVF's I've done, that's the first time I've ever seen anyone give "pixels" as the reason they will have to pry their mirrors from their cold dead hands.   I don't think you have anything to worry about, though, since EVF's are still pretty niche and OVF's don't look like they are going away anytime soon.  Also, do you have any info on that TLCD overlay stuff you were talking about?  Google wasn't really coming up with anything and it sounds interesting.

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2208
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #94 on: March 14, 2014, 04:05:47 PM »
... the days of the mirror-flipping high fps beast seem to be almost over.

Marsu, don't tell me you're buying into the mirrorless hype. :)

Canon's delaying strategy worked on me and I bit the bullet last fall with a 5DIII. But, I'm still interested in a 7D II.

I think my list is pretty modest.

5DIII style autofocus
Dual card slots (one each)
600 RT settings through the menu (that's a certainty)
Modest improvement in sensor, particularly in reduced noise
If higher megapixels, no loss in image quality
Weather sealing at least to 5DIII standards
Same basic controls as 5DIII
Frame Rate equal to or better than current 7D

Basically, I want a second body that I can shoot birds and wildlife with when I'm distance limited and know I'll need to crop a significant portion of the frame away.




pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5381
  • ... on superhero vacation!
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #95 on: March 14, 2014, 04:43:49 PM »
... the days of the mirror-flipping high fps beast seem to be almost over.
Marsu, don't tell me you're buying into the mirrorless hype. :)

Well, this forum is the stronghold of the old school "80s" dslr community, but alas, tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.

I'm buying the fact that in the near future, you can do 100fps full res with mirrorless - at amateur price w/o 1d-type construction and for shootings styles that need "take your pick". Me, I'm always using flash so 1fps is enough :-)

But really, the whole mirror idea is based on the fact that the analog film needs to be hidden, with a digital sensor it's on its way out except for people who also use digital watches that were once cool. Your camera is a high-performance computer, but this fact is only used up to a tiny fraction by existing designs and software.

Canon is working on this with the whole dual pixel af gadgetry, and the 7d2 delay indicates they won't release it as the last flagship incarnation of the old school dslr system with "everything Canon has" stuffed in.

Tugela

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 281
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2014, 05:08:19 PM »
The mirrors were there so you could see exactly what you were shooting, but were raised when the exposure was being done. The shutter in mechanical film cameras typically was a curtain in front of the film plane that moved aside.

If you don't use an optical viewfinder you don't need any of that mechanism.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #96 on: March 14, 2014, 05:08:19 PM »

JimKarczewski

  • PowerShot G1 X II
  • ***
  • Posts: 35
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #97 on: March 15, 2014, 04:16:13 AM »
Rienzphotoz-


This is older photos (lastyear), unfortunately I haven't uploaded the latest work which is about 30 frames at 1/3 intervals for HDR.

http://www.nwipix.com/p369641141

Aglet

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1088
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #98 on: March 16, 2014, 12:58:44 AM »
I do agree this camera will have to be extremely feature rich to be successful.

This is most likely the reason the 7d2 isn't here yet and neither "around the corner" ...

... but the competition is a moving target, the new Nikon 1 v3 has 20fps with servo af, full res 18mp and 40 shows raw buffer (http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20018.0) so Canon should better come up with something really interesting or amateur wildlife photogs will switch to mirrorless.

The hybrid (evf/ovf?) viewfinder is the indication Canon is following suite - with a high-fps "mirror flipped up" mode, the days of the mirror-flipping high fps beast seem to be almost over.

When I read the N1v3 can do ~60fps with focus locked almost made me choke on my ichiban noodles!

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5381
  • ... on superhero vacation!
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #99 on: March 16, 2014, 01:44:00 AM »
When I read the N1v3 can do ~60fps with focus locked almost made me choke on my ichiban noodles!

Well, at least we have Magic Lantern which can do 60fps+ raw with locked focus right now for Canon ("silent pix"), but alas, only at reduced live view resolution 1824x1224 ...

mkabi

  • Canon 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 368
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #100 on: March 17, 2014, 11:20:10 AM »
When I read the N1v3 can do ~60fps with focus locked almost made me choke on my ichiban noodles!

Well, at least we have Magic Lantern which can do 60fps+ raw with locked focus right now for Canon ("silent pix"), but alas, only at reduced live view resolution 1824x1224 ...

Are you being sarcastic? Because thats actually more resolution than 1080p.
1920X1080 = 2073600
1824X1224 = 2232576
Canon 7D - EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L, EF - 20mm f/2.8, EF 50mm f/1.4, EF 100mm f/2.0, Custom Cine 50mm & Custom Cine 35mm

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5381
  • ... on superhero vacation!
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #101 on: March 17, 2014, 12:07:41 PM »
Are you being sarcastic? Because thats actually more resolution than 1080p.
1920X1080 = 2073600
1824X1224 = 2232576

True, but it's far below the full sensor res of real mirrorless like the 18mp Nikon 1 v3 - so the ML solution is no good for larger prints or cropping.

Rienzphotoz

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 3326
  • Peace unto all ye Canon, Nikon & Sony shooters
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2014, 12:33:23 PM »
Are you being sarcastic? Because thats actually more resolution than 1080p.
1920X1080 = 2073600
1824X1224 = 2232576

True, but it's far below the full sensor res of real mirrorless like the 18mp Nikon 1 v3 - so the ML solution is no good for larger prints or cropping.
Just curious, what exactly are people shooting at 60fps that they are going to make large prints?
Canon 5DMK3 70D | Nikon D610 | Sony a7 a6000 | RX100M3 | 16-35/2.8LII | 70-200/2.8LISII | 100/2.8LIS | 100-400LIS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.4 | 85/1.8 | 600EX-RTx2 | ST-E3-RT | 24/3.5 T-S | 10-18/4 OSS 16-50 | 24-70/4OSS | 55/1.8 | 55-210 OSS | 70-200/4 OSS | 28-300VR | HVL-F43M | GoPro Black 3+ & DJI Phantom

canon rumors FORUM

Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #102 on: March 17, 2014, 12:33:23 PM »

Marsu42

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 5381
  • ... on superhero vacation!
    • View Profile
    • 6D positive spec list
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #103 on: March 17, 2014, 01:54:18 PM »
Just curious, what exactly are people shooting at 60fps that they are going to make large prints?

Any fast movement with a decisive moment water drops or other often pre-arranged settings where you know the focus has to be.

East Wind Photography

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 879
  • EWP
    • View Profile
Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2014, 02:22:49 PM »
... the days of the mirror-flipping high fps beast seem to be almost over.
Marsu, don't tell me you're buying into the mirrorless hype. :)

Well, this forum is the stronghold of the old school "80s" dslr community, but alas, tempora mutantur, nos et mutamur in illis.

I'm buying the fact that in the near future, you can do 100fps full res with mirrorless - at amateur price w/o 1d-type construction and for shootings styles that need "take your pick". Me, I'm always using flash so 1fps is enough :-)

But really, the whole mirror idea is based on the fact that the analog film needs to be hidden, with a digital sensor it's on its way out except for people who also use digital watches that were once cool. Your camera is a high-performance computer, but this fact is only used up to a tiny fraction by existing designs and software.

Canon is working on this with the whole dual pixel af gadgetry, and the 7d2 delay indicates they won't release it as the last flagship incarnation of the old school dslr system with "everything Canon has" stuffed in.

Lol.  Just for the record i picked up an eos-3 two weeks ago.  For the life of me i cant figure out how to do video with it.  ;)


canon rumors FORUM

Re: EOS 7D Replacement Mentioned Again [CR1]
« Reply #104 on: March 17, 2014, 02:22:49 PM »