November 28, 2014, 04:58:26 AM

Author Topic: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body  (Read 2397 times)

gshocked

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2014, 07:31:53 PM »
Hi

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works but aren't you better getting a new or second hand 7d?
Wouldn't that camera perform better overall than an older 5d mk I?

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2014, 07:31:53 PM »

BL

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2014, 07:38:25 PM »
But the OP wants a FF sensor to match his 5D3.

the 40mm pancake lives on my 5Dc.  I love that combo!
M, 5Dc, 1Dx, some lenses, a few lights

gshocked

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2014, 08:20:33 PM »
But the OP wants a FF sensor to match his 5D3.

the 40mm pancake lives on my 5Dc.  I love that combo!

Oh... Could you save a little more and get a 5d II second hand?

Don Haines

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #18 on: April 18, 2014, 09:17:03 PM »
There are hardcore supporters of the idea that "full frame is always better. :-X" I do not think so, and choose 70D without hesitation. ??? Weather sealed, AFMA, AF far superior, more images per second, higher resolution, LCD infinitely better, etc... ::) I have not used original 5D, but some friends use and the noise in the shadows is very ugly. :-[ Any Rebel model currently has more like colored noise film, while the original 5D has horrible colored spots. 8)
I'd pick a 70D over a 5D any day of the week. With a 5D2, there would be a lot of humming and hawing and then I'd get the 5D2. The 5D2 is a major improvement over the 5D... heck, a T5i is an improvement over the 5D.

to go from a 5D to a 5D2 changes:
from 12 to 21 megapixels
max ISO from 3200 to 25,600
both with 9 focus points
a larger screen with 4 times the number of pixels
an impossible to find battery to the LP-E6 that seems to be in everything now....
you get video
you get live view
you get sensor cleaning
The best camera is the one in your hands

sagittariansrock

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2014, 10:45:23 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions aj, gshocked and Don regarding the 7D/70D, however:
I just sold my 7D after buying my 5DIII because I simply don't see a role for APS-C camera for me any more.
While the 7D and 70D are excellent cameras,

1. They aren't as cheap.
2. They won't replace my FF focal lengths or replicate the DoF I can get (this really is the most important aspect I want my backup to have the same sensor size- which is why I am not considering the 60D either).
3. Won't be as good in high ISO- now that, of course, is a presumption. I am presuming the 5Dc will be better than any crop sensor camera at ISO, say 1600. Is that true? I am only thinking theoretically having never used the 5D. The 5DII, of course, blows the 7D out of the water.

Now what you say about getting a used 5DII instead makes more sense, except that won't be possible for me right now.
I suppose I can always wait a few months and save a bit more, and hope 5DII prices come down as well. Of course, the 5DII is a fantastic camera- just could never stand missing the 7D AF. But for a 2nd camera it isn't a problem. Hmmm (THOUGHTFUL SMILEY)
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Don Haines

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2014, 11:03:31 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions aj, gshocked and Don regarding the 7D/70D, however:
I just sold my 7D after buying my 5DIII because I simply don't see a role for APS-C camera for me any more.
While the 7D and 70D are excellent cameras,

1. They aren't as cheap.
2. They won't replace my FF focal lengths or replicate the DoF I can get (this really is the most important aspect I want my backup to have the same sensor size- which is why I am not considering the 60D either).
3. Won't be as good in high ISO- now that, of course, is a presumption. I am presuming the 5Dc will be better than any crop sensor camera at ISO, say 1600. Is that true? I am only thinking theoretically having never used the 5D. The 5DII, of course, blows the 7D out of the water.

Now what you say about getting a used 5DII instead makes more sense, except that won't be possible for me right now.
I suppose I can always wait a few months and save a bit more, and hope 5DII prices come down as well. Of course, the 5DII is a fantastic camera- just could never stand missing the 7D AF. But for a 2nd camera it isn't a problem. Hmmm (THOUGHTFUL SMILEY)
6D????
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sagittariansrock

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2014, 12:04:13 AM »
6D????

Jon, I see your point. However, purchasing a more advanced camera will defeat the point of having a cheap second fiddle for me. Even the 5DII doesn't go for lower than 1K, and for that money I'd rather pay extra and get the 6D.

:)
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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2014, 12:04:13 AM »

gshocked

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2014, 08:41:08 AM »
There are hardcore supporters of the idea that "full frame is always better. :-X" I do not think so, and choose 70D without hesitation. ??? Weather sealed, AFMA, AF far superior, more images per second, higher resolution, LCD infinitely better, etc... ::) I have not used original 5D, but some friends use and the noise in the shadows is very ugly. :-[ Any Rebel model currently has more like colored noise film, while the original 5D has horrible colored spots. 8)
I'd pick a 70D over a 5D any day of the week. With a 5D2, there would be a lot of humming and hawing and then I'd get the 5D2. The 5D2 is a major improvement over the 5D... heck, a T5i is an improvement over the 5D.

to go from a 5D to a 5D2 changes:
from 12 to 21 megapixels
max ISO from 3200 to 25,600
both with 9 focus points
a larger screen with 4 times the number of pixels
an impossible to find battery to the LP-E6 that seems to be in everything now....
you get video
you get live view
you get sensor cleaning

+1

Hi sagittariansrock,

The AF of the 5D mk II is quite usable. Its not as snappy as the 7D but its OK.
I know the price difference is quite a bit but if you can wait I think you'd be happier.

RLPhoto

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2014, 08:47:56 AM »
I also shot a 5Dc + 7D combo for some years waiting for the mk3. The 5Dc is a 20d with a FF sensor. It feels like cheap plastic in the hands, the LCD is low resolution and hard to check focus even zooming in, the AF is about the same as 5d2, the handgrip feels to squared off, and it makes the most satisfying clunk when you release the stone and mortar like shutter.

However, if you can get one sub-400$ and the eg-s focusing screen, it makes a sweet beat up camera. The RAW files you get are very flat and more natural looking than what I get out of my mk3s straight away with no fiddling. I found all its ISO range to be usable if processed but it's limited to 3200. The single center point Is very good. It's just a simple camera with no frills and I'd still choose one over a rebel thus far in 2014.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2014, 08:50:15 AM by RLPhoto »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2014, 11:44:14 PM »
Hi all,
Thanks for the great advice. I ended up getting a nice deal on the 5Dc and having used it for a couple of days, and I like it already. Unfortunately, I have only shot people till now (who don't like their pictures on the net), but I should be able to post some pictures soon.
In case someone has the same questions as me, here's what I like so far:
1. The images are very nice (and I mean really nice), and as RLP said, I needed very little PP in LR. Actually, I just fitted the lens profile and pushed the WB a tad, and that was it. Shots at ISO 1600 are totally ok to push exposures by a stop without any significant deterioration of shadows (didn't try more than that). The fact that I can shoot at 1600 and be perfectly happy with it, trumps the 7D (that I had) right there.
2. AF with center point was absolutely fine. I didn't want to fiddle with the peripheral ones anyway because it was dark.
Here's what I don't like so much:
1. The shutter sound is loud, I almost flinch and worry the mirror will come off (well, it has been reinforced).
2. The LCD is small and low-res and green (Did they borrow this one from Nikon?). There's no way to see a histogram at the same time (it might be technically possible, but practically pointless).
3. No Auto ISO. I really miss that feature.
4. The long-winded menu system. They could have updated the firmware...
I did know 2 and 3 going in though, so not much bothered.

Now, I have a follow-up question. The sensor has a bit of dust, and I know there is no sensor cleaning system.
So should I send it in and get Canon to do it (might also get a replacement screen), or is it something that can be safely attempted by self using a rocket blower (no, I won't go into the stamping/swiping tools)? I have attached a picture of the sensor. Advice will be greatly appreciated.

Second question- I know RLP suggested getting the Ee-S screen, but is there any benefit to the Ee-D with the grids? Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 11:46:32 PM by sagittariansrock »
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Valvebounce

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2014, 05:53:45 AM »
Hi Sagittariansrock.
I would try blowing, possibly seeing how much junk you have in there I would try a small tube taped to the vacuum cleaner, adjust suction and overload on the motor by leaving part of the taped joint open, place the end just inside the mount to encourage the junk to leave rather than just redistribute it!
May I ask why you won't try a wet clean if it is needed? With a system from one supplier, their swabs and fluid following the instructions you can't really go wrong. I suspect that blowing will remove some but not all dirt, I would not be happy with any dirt on the sensor after cleaning, I was looking at a couple of pics yesterday and had the damn I have dirt , then I realised one was an OOF bird and the other was debris (seaweed?) in the wave splash!

Cheers Graham.

Hi all,

Now, I have a follow-up question. The sensor has a bit of dust, and I know there is no sensor cleaning system.
So should I send it in and get Canon to do it (might also get a replacement screen), or is it something that can be safely attempted by self using a rocket blower (no, I won't go into the stamping/swiping tools)? I have attached a picture of the sensor. Advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
7D + Grip, 40D + Grip, 20D, EF-S 17-85 Kit lens, EF 70-200 f2.8 L IS II USM, EF 2x III, Sigma 150-500, Sigma 17-70 f2.8-4 C, 50mm f1.8, 550EX some Filters Remotes Macro tubes Tripod heads etc!
20D, BG-E2N, 17-85mm, 50mm are pre loved. :)
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Sporgon

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2014, 07:53:10 AM »
Second question- I know RLP suggested getting the Ee-S screen, but is there any benefit to the Ee-D with the grids? Thanks.

The Ee-d is just the standard screen with a grid, so whilst it is a benefit for keeping the camera level it is no better for real dof.

If you are using lenses faster than 2.8 then the s screen will show real dof and help manual focus between f1.2 and f2.8. With the standard screen the dof at these apertures is hidden so you can't manually or even see, the exact point of focus within a 2.8 dof.

With the AF system of the 5Diii Canon must have felt you don't need to manually focus an f1.2 - f2 lens, or see real dof. Not sure if the CR community is representative of the whole, but if it is they got that wrong.

RLPhoto

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 08:27:58 AM »
Skip the ee-d screen. It doesn't help with seeing DOF.

As for dust, try a blower first then move onto sensor swabs if the previous fails. Then if all else fails, send it to canon for a cleaning.

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2014, 08:27:58 AM »

sagittariansrock

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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 12:39:33 PM »
Thanks RL, Sporgon and Graham
I will try the blower>sensor swab (Why didn't I want to try this? Because I'm skittish)>Canon, unless I decide for the Ee-S sooner, in which case I might just send it in.
I don't have an f/1.2 lens though, I'll have to see how the 5D AF feels with the f/1.4s and the 135/2.
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Re: Advice needed: thinking of a 5D as a second body
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2014, 12:39:33 PM »