September 17, 2014, 10:04:16 PM

Author Topic: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official  (Read 5523 times)

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2014, 10:05:11 AM »
400$ for 55-200 6.3 kit telephoto zoom?

Are they out of their minds?

because that 1/3 of a stop difference between 6.3 and 5.6 is going to make a huge difference in price.

That 1/3-stop means a 20% reduction in the size of the front element, so yes...that could make quite a significant difference in both lens size and cost.  That's something Tamron, Sigma, etc., have done for years (although they then have to 'spoof' the AF system to show the lens as f/5.6).

size yes.  cost? do you think an element that is 35mm versus one at 31mm is going to significant change the price?

all things being equal - tooling, zoom mechanism, making it this small, STM motor, IS, and the other 14 elements that are less aperture sensitive are going to more cost related.

17 elements in 11 groups - is quite sophisticated for it's intended market / price class.

the EF-S 55-250 STM has 15 elements in 12 groups
and as another example, the Sony E 55-210 is 13 elements 9 groups.

the sony rolls in at 63.8 x108mm as far as size for the same aperture range.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:14:03 AM by rrcphoto »

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2014, 10:05:11 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2014, 10:11:51 AM »
400$ for 55-200 6.3 kit telephoto zoom?

Are they out of their minds?

because that 1/3 of a stop difference between 6.3 and 5.6 is going to make a huge difference in price.

That 1/3-stop means a 20% reduction in the size of the front element, so yes...that could make quite a significant difference in both lens size and cost.  That's something Tamron, Sigma, etc., have done for years (although they then have to 'spoof' the AF system to show the lens as f/5.6).

size yes.  cost? do you think an element that is 35mm versus one at 31mm is going to significant change the price?

all things being equal - tooling, zoom mechanism, STM motor, IS, and the other 14 elements that are less aperture sensitive are going to more cost related.

Sorry, not being clear.  Lower production cost.  That means more profit.  Keep in mind that Canon 'updated' the EF-S 18-55 (pre-STM) with purely cosmetic changes that fractionally reduced production costs.

But...to the extent that a smaller front element allows a reduced diameter of the lens barrel, yes, even a '4mm' reduction matters.  Materials are 3-dimensional, so a small linear change has a larger impact than you might think.

Regardless, I think the main reason for the f/6.3 is a size reduction.
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AvTvM

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2014, 10:17:36 AM »
Regarding the f/6.3, isn't the f stop somewhat moot with contrast detect AF?  Of course more light is likely better, but I thought that was more of an issue with phase detect.  Canon has had P&S cameras for years with >f/5.6 and contrast detect AF.  How is this any different?

EOS-M has hybrid Af ... phase detect on sensor  + contrast-detect. Less light will certainly not help AF, although the issue might not be as bad as on DSLR/phase AF-only system.

Plus f/6.3 on a 200mm lens (equivalent FOV to 320mm lens on EOS M/APOS-C sensor) will require use of higher ISO setting quite often to get fast enough shutter speeds to freeze motion in anything other than fully sunlit scenes ...   

Yet another issue are diffraction losses. f/4 typically delivers maximum sharpness on APS-C sensors, from f/8 onward diffraction losses will set in. A f/6.3 APS-C lens does not leave room for stopping down.

See for example photozone-review of Canon EF-S 10-18/4.0-5.6 ... which shows diffraction losses already at f/8.
http://www.photozone.de/canon-eos/874-canon_1018_4556is?start=1
Quote
We've seen it already with the Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM ... Canon really knows how to design sharp lenses even at this price point. The MTF results are nothing short of astounding. However, first of all some comments regarding the "curves" below. Some of you may be surprised that the lens is capable of providing its best results at max. aperture. This may sound strange but please keep in mind that APS-C lenses perform best around f/4 (full format: around f/5.6) and diffraction has already an impact when stopping down. Thus because the Canon lens is "so slow" to start with, it performs already best between f/4.5 and f/5.6.
The center quality is generally excellent till f/8 and the borders as well as the corners are very good. At f/11 diffraction has a significant impact already. Usually we don't include the reading for f/16 but we've shown it here just to illustrate that this setting should be avoided on APS-C cameras. The reduced quality has nothing to do with the lens, this is just physics in action.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:20:35 AM by AvTvM »

Zv

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2014, 10:20:24 AM »
I never bothered with the EF-M 18-55
It's actually better than you might think - nice metal build quality, the IS works well, and it's sharper than the DxO charts would indicate.  My preferred carry method for this camera is actually to have the body capped, um, body in one pocket and the 18-55 in the other.  When I'm ready to shoot, I just assemble them...

I'm considering the 11-22, but this little telephoto seems like it would be nice for travel as well.  If only it had a viewfinder, it would be the perfect travel camera.  Maybe the M3...

I did consider buying the EF-M 18-55 but I have the 24-105L that covers the general purpose and walkaround needs while on vacation and I didn't want to buy another kit lens ever again. Saying that I'm still eyeing second hand deals for a cheap one!  :P

The thing I like about the 22/2 is that the combo is actually pocketable in a slightly "are you happy to see me or ... ?" kind of way! I use the M in conjunction with my 5D2 & 135L (a great combo btw you should try it!) and either have it hanging from my wrist or in the pocket for quick access for up close or wide shots during events and things.

What's got me interested about this telephoto is the opportunity to have the M as my main camera for events with the 22/2 in a pocket for quick swap-out if needed. By events I mean festivals and things nothing serious!
5D II | 17-40L | 24-105L | 70-200 f4L IS | 135L | SY 14mm f/2.8 | Sigma 50 f/1.4

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rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2014, 10:20:40 AM »
Regardless, I think the main reason for the f/6.3 is a size reduction.

same.  even if this factors in as a not cheap item to get all the way over to NA, I'll probably get one just because it's far more smaller than the EF-S + adapter.

Just an interesting comparison (granted the fuji is faster - but you don't have any other options).

Between the APS-C short registration systems, the telephoto kit len's:

Fuji 2.95 x 4.65" 20.46 oz  f/3.5-4.8
Sony 2.5 x 4.25 12.1 oz  f/4.5-6.3
Canon M 2.4" x 3.38 9.17 oz f/4.5-6.3


rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2014, 10:25:07 AM »

EOS-M has hybrid Af ... phase detect on sensor  + contrast-detect. Less light will certainly not help AF, although the issue might not be as bad as on DSLR/phase AF-only system.

Plus f/6.3 on a 200mm lens (equivalent FOV to 320mm lens on EOS M/APOS-C sensor) will require use of higher ISO setting quite often to get fast enough shutter speeds to freeze motion in anything other than fully sunlit scenes ...   

Yet another issue are diffraction losses. f/4 typically delivers maximum sharpness on APS-C sensors, from f/8 onward diffraction losses will set in. A f/6.3 APS-C lens does not leave room for stopping down.

you're not going to see a significant difference between 5.6 and 6.3 for any of your issues though.

AvTvM

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2014, 10:25:13 AM »
Regardless, I think the main reason for the f/6.3 is a size reduction.

same.  even if this factors in as a not cheap item to get all the way over to NA, I'll probably get one just because it's far more smaller than the EF-S + adapter.

Just an interesting comparison (granted the fuji is faster - but you don't have any other options).

Between the APS-C short registration systems, the telephoto kit len's:

Fuji 2.95 x 4.65" 20.46 oz  f/3.5-4.8
Sony 2.5 x 4.25 12.1 oz  f/4.5-6.3
Canon M 2.4" x 3.38 9.17 oz f/4.5-6.3

I do expect the Canon EF-M 55-200 to be a better perfermer in terms of IQ than both the much more expensive Fuji [which is not great] and the Sony lens. But lets wait and see .. MTF charts anyone? ... and then test results and pictures. :-)

Of course this lens only was announced, because I recently purchased the EF-S 55-250 for use as light telezoom on both my 7D and via adapter on the M.  ;D
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 10:30:35 AM by AvTvM »

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2014, 10:25:13 AM »

AvTvM

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2014, 10:29:36 AM »
you're not going to see a significant difference between 5.6 and 6.3 for any of your issues though.

yeah, but
1. every bit worse hurts ... anything from f/5.6 onward is twilight zone anyways ;-)
2. especially considering how ALL manufacturers LIE about focal lengths and f-stops ... in reality f/5.6 often really means T/6.2  and f/6.3 means T/7.9 ... or so  ::)

Random Orbits

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2014, 10:48:18 AM »
you're not going to see a significant difference between 5.6 and 6.3 for any of your issues though.

yeah, but
1. every bit worse hurts ... anything from f/5.6 onward is twilight zone anyways ;-)
2. especially considering how ALL manufacturers LIE about focal lengths and f-stops ... in reality f/5.6 often really means T/6.2  and f/6.3 means T/7.9 ... or so  ::)

Not necessarily.  What is the T-stop of of the 35 f/2 IS?  T/2.  What is the T-stop of the 24-70 f/2.8 II?  T/3.  Modern coatings are much better than they were a decade ago.  It's time for you to sell the 55-250 and buy the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because that is what you really want.   ::)

AvTvM

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2014, 11:08:47 AM »
Not necessarily.  What is the T-stop of of the 35 f/2 IS?  T/2.  What is the T-stop of the 24-70 f/2.8 II?  T/3.  Modern coatings are much better than they were a decade ago.  It's time for you to sell the 55-250 and buy the 70-200 f/2.8 IS II because that is what you really want.   ::)

For less expensive, darkish consumer zoom lenses, manufacturers tend to LIE MORE regarding focal lengths and f-stop. ;-)

and btw ... i got both, EF-S 55-250 and EF 70-200/2.8 II ... and use each for its own. I do have pictures, where I could not tell from just looking at them, with which one they were made. ;-)

mb66energy

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2014, 01:16:00 PM »
[...]


I do expect the Canon EF-M 55-200 to be a better perfermer in terms of IQ than both the much more expensive Fuji [which is not great] and the Sony lens. But lets wait and see .. MTF charts anyone? ... and then test results and pictures. :-)

Of course this lens only was announced, because I recently purchased the EF-S 55-250 for use as light telezoom on both my 7D and via adapter on the M.  ;D
[/quote]


RED:
http://cweb.canon.jp/ef/lineup/ef-m/ef-m55-200-f45-63-is-stm/spec.html

BLUE:
I know that feeling but it doesn't work always: After I bought my 5.6 400 I was shure an IS version or the 100-400 unicorn lens as mark II would be available instantanously - 3 years later both aren't available.
But that feeling is a good anti dote against GAS ...
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dcm

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2014, 02:08:07 PM »
Don't think I'll rush out to get it since I already have the EF-S 55-250 IS STM and I would have to import it.  Not against importing - I already imported the 11-22 and am quite happy with it.   While I appreciate the size/weight improvement, the MTF appears to be similar - maybe a bit better on the short end and a bit worse on the long end.  Just might wait for other M related announcements to make a decision.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 11:20:49 PM by dcm »
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1Zach1

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2014, 02:55:55 PM »
It kind of feels like Canon is giving up on the US market for the M-line. Hope that isn't the case.

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2014, 02:55:55 PM »

AvTvM

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2014, 04:33:55 PM »
Thanks for the MTF charts!

Since i do have the ef-s 55-250 + adapter i will also hold back buying more ef-m lenses until canon either announces a golden unicorn eos-m3 :-) or at least a vlear roadmap showing, where they want to take the M system to.
If a really good M3 comes along, i will shed all EF-S lenses and pick up Ef-M instead. Actially i might pull the trigger on the 11-22 even before ... If i get a teally good deal. 55-200 is somewhat less enticing to me due to f/6.3.

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2014, 06:34:41 PM »
Yeah cost will be the other one. I already have the adapter and have seen the 55-250 STM for some decent prices lately. Cheaper than this forecast price and if it isn't pocketable (in otherwords anything except the 22mm pancake) then it goes in a bag where even my smallest config would have no real difference carrying this or the EF-S via adapter.

That is noticeably smaller though so can imagine a few people being pretty happy with that.
Hurry up Canon and do something with your sensors! :P

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Re: Canon EF-M 55-200 f/4.5-6.3 IS STM Gets Official
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2014, 06:34:41 PM »