September 17, 2014, 09:54:50 PM

Author Topic: D810!!!  (Read 17300 times)

weixing

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2014, 08:14:31 AM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

While I can understand this for lenses....for camera bodies, they are a depreciating asset. Every camera body I have bought has dropped in resale value over the three years I have owned them. The lenses i have bought have generally been worth more over time due to inflation and increasing prices year on year. My 16-35IIL cost me £850 new, it's still worth close to that S/H and new they are nearly £1200. My 85 f1.2 II L cost me £1200, it's worth nearly that S/H and it's new price is between £1500 and £1800 depending where you buy it.

Camera bodies are electronic devices like your iPad, iPhone, iMac and depreciate accordingly as their function degrades.

I sometimes wonder if the people that care most about the resale value are those that are always running with a month to month non-$0 debt on their credit card and thus see the resale value as being a way to gain back that lost debt, so to speak.
Hi,
    Some of us (me included) always sell the old camera to fund the new camera, so that we don't need to pay the full price for it when we upgrade our camera. In the idea scenario, when a new model come out, we should have save enough $$ to pay for the difference after we sell the old model.

    If the new camera "refresh" too fast, we might not save enough $$ to perform the "sell old, buy new" upgrade especially for a mid range full frame DSLR like D800 which is not cheap, so we wait... By the time, we ready to perform the upgrade, a new model launched (may be D900) and the value of our old camera drop even further...

    Hmm... may be this is the reason why Nikon don't sell as many camera as Canon as their model "refresh" too fast which make the resale value of their camera drop so fast that it's make no sense to perform upgrade, so Nikon user will just use the camera longer until they save enough $$ to buy a new one at full price.

    Have a nice day.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 08:16:03 AM by weixing »

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2014, 08:14:31 AM »

Dylan777

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2014, 09:32:56 AM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

I'm one those guys. I like to keep my camera bodies and lenses nice and clean at all time. 

Just sold one of my 5D III on CL for $2600 cash. Buyer seems to be very happy with the cosmetic condition - MINT.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 09:37:05 AM by Dylan777 »
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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2014, 02:27:16 PM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

I'm one those guys. I like to keep my camera bodies and lenses nice and clean at all time. 

Just sold one of my 5D III on CL for $2600 cash. Buyer seems to be very happy with the cosmetic condition - MINT.
+1 ... I keep all my camera gear in MINT condition, including original boxes, manuals, CDs etc ... in the last 6 months I made over 70000 photos (not counting tons of video footage) ... only absolute ignorant people think that if your gear is in mint condition than you are not using your camera much ... good house keeping of your camera gear is not a sign of a poor photographer ... by the same token, just because one's camera is full of dings or scratches does not mean he/she is a good photographer.
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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2014, 04:01:01 PM »
Nikonian linguistic analysis: the -10 suffix translates to 'fixing a problem'.  The SB910 fixed the thermal issues of the SB900.  The D610 fixed the oil spatter and banned-from-sale-in-China-debacle of the D600.  The D810 fixes the problem Nikon had of producing both the D800 and D800E.

I wonder if there is a neuroanatomist-10 in the nikon forums...

You should go and find out. Bye!
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Tugela

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2014, 04:36:10 PM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

While I can understand this for lenses....for camera bodies, they are a depreciating asset. Every camera body I have bought has dropped in resale value over the three years I have owned them. The lenses i have bought have generally been worth more over time due to inflation and increasing prices year on year. My 16-35IIL cost me £850 new, it's still worth close to that S/H and new they are nearly £1200. My 85 f1.2 II L cost me £1200, it's worth nearly that S/H and it's new price is between £1500 and £1800 depending where you buy it.

Camera bodies are electronic devices like your iPad, iPhone, iMac and depreciate accordingly as their function degrades.

I sometimes wonder if the people that care most about the resale value are those that are always running with a month to month non-$0 debt on their credit card and thus see the resale value as being a way to gain back that lost debt, so to speak.
Hi,
    Some of us (me included) always sell the old camera to fund the new camera, so that we don't need to pay the full price for it when we upgrade our camera. In the idea scenario, when a new model come out, we should have save enough $$ to pay for the difference after we sell the old model.

    If the new camera "refresh" too fast, we might not save enough $$ to perform the "sell old, buy new" upgrade especially for a mid range full frame DSLR like D800 which is not cheap, so we wait... By the time, we ready to perform the upgrade, a new model launched (may be D900) and the value of our old camera drop even further...

    Hmm... may be this is the reason why Nikon don't sell as many camera as Canon as their model "refresh" too fast which make the resale value of their camera drop so fast that it's make no sense to perform upgrade, so Nikon user will just use the camera longer until they save enough $$ to buy a new one at full price.

    Have a nice day.

You upgrade your camera when there is a significant functionality boost over the old camera, not because of minor changes. A three year old camera is a three year old camera, the loss of value over that time will reflect that. As with any product, there is  premium to be paid for something that is new out of the box rather than used, and resale will lose you that premium. If you upgrade every 12 months for some minor improvement, then yes, you are going to be losing a lot more money than if you upgraded every three years because you are giving up that premium three times instead of once. It is not Nikon's fault that you choose to do this.


bosshog7_2000

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2014, 04:57:29 PM »
Seems like the 5D iii just got pooped on.  For anyone who can stomach 36MP that is.

Luckily for Canon they have the better lens line-up.  Which is what really matters.

Better lenses...yeah, as long as you don't shoot UWA...cus besides the 17mm TSE Canon is pretty weak in that regard.  I'm still using my old 5D2 but I would be a pretty happy camper if Canon came out with something like the D810.

Roo

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 05:05:58 PM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

I'm one those guys. I like to keep my camera bodies and lenses nice and clean at all time. 

Just sold one of my 5D III on CL for $2600 cash. Buyer seems to be very happy with the cosmetic condition - MINT.
+1 ... I keep all my camera gear in MINT condition, including original boxes, manuals, CDs etc ... in the last 6 months I made over 70000 photos (not counting tons of video footage) ... only absolute ignorant people think that if your gear is in mint condition than you are not using your camera much ... good house keeping of your camera gear is not a sign of a poor photographer ... by the same token, just because one's camera is full of dings or scratches does not mean he/she is a good photographer.

Couldn't have said it better Rein.  It seems someone has as many dings in his camera as he does in his arguments  ;D
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 05:08:08 PM by Roo »
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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2014, 05:05:58 PM »

dilbert

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2014, 05:18:24 PM »
I feel sorry for Nikon owners.
It doesn't matter what model they buy, even when first released, as a few months down the track, Nikon will bring out a new and improved version of it making your current model obsolete and now worth substantially less than it cost you. Remember the D600 then the 610?
Canon does hang onto models much longer, and hence they have better re-sale value later on as say, after 3 years, your Canon may be just superseded, but if you had an equivalent Nikon, it would be 3 models old and practically worthless.

I'm not saying that Nikon cameras are no good, in fact, they are very good indeed, but constant model updates is not how you keep up the perceived and resale value of products.
It also makes it more difficult regarding spare parts too, as many models mean lots of parts and distributors only have so much space and money for parts.

I feel sorry for people who buy cameras based on how much they can sell them for.

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

I'm one those guys. I like to keep my camera bodies and lenses nice and clean at all time. 

Just sold one of my 5D III on CL for $2600 cash. Buyer seems to be very happy with the cosmetic condition - MINT.
+1 ... I keep all my camera gear in MINT condition, including original boxes, manuals, CDs etc ... in the last 6 months I made over 70000 photos (not counting tons of video footage) ... only absolute ignorant people think that if your gear is in mint condition than you are not using your camera much ...

Well there is no accounting for ignorant people with money to spend. At 70,000, a 5D Mark III's shutter is almost half way through its lifetime before it needs to be replaced.

Shutter actuations, like miles in a car, is the primary key for determining the value of a 2nd hand camera.

sdsr

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2014, 06:08:58 PM »

Summary: Canon owns you as a consumer for photographic equipment.

But don't worry, this is the same boat that a lot of Canon owners are on... and Canon like that boat having as many people as possible on board.

Well, of course they do - it would be rather odd if they didn't.  But just which boat anyone's on rather depends on what you want/need.  For instance, switching brands isn't the expense that many assume (you'll lose on bodies, but not much, if at all, on lenses), while that pest Sony has come up with camera bodies that work as excellent digital backs for any number of lenses, including Canon's.  Many won't be interested in any of this for various reasons (switching brands may mean having to forgo a highly-prized lens, an A7r probably wouldn't be anyone's choice for herons-catching-fish, many unsurprisingly are perfectly happy with how their Canon bodies perform anyway, and so on), but there's more than one boat, even for owners of Canon lenses. 

This new Nikon doesn't look very interesting to me. Had it been mirrorless with IBIS and built in such a way that Canon lenses could be attached, maybe.  But for now my Sony & Canon bodies will do just fine....

sagittariansrock

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2014, 06:18:48 PM »
So, why is not having a low-pass filter (810) better than having one that doesn't anti-alias (800E)? I thought the low-pass filter is useful for protecting the sensor from dust...  ???

If your camera is in good enough condition to be sold as "mint" or "near mint" condition then you obviously haven't used it very much.

There is a difference between 'use' and 'abuse'. I sold my 2-year old iPhone 4S back to Apple and got their maximum possible buyback price (for 'mint'- which anyone who sold back to Apple will know, is pretty rare). And I used my phone every day, all the time.

Snobbish generalizations aside, these incremental improvements will send a bunch of Nikonians scurrying to pick up the last of the 800s at their current price before they are discontinued. Maybe that was the ulterior motive- to boost D800 sales!

Better lenses...yeah, as long as you don't shoot UWA...cus besides the 17mm TSE Canon is pretty weak in that regard.  I'm still using my old 5D2 but I would be a pretty happy camper if Canon came out with something like the D810.

Nikon has one excellent fast UWA zoom, yes. But the other three are quite mediocre. And with the new 16-35 IS, Canon has closed that gap quite a bit (if early samples can be believed).
It is funny how people read posts on the forums and make these generalized comments! Other than a fast UWA, Nikon isn't significantly better in ANY aspect compared to Canon lenses. Head-to-head they are either close or Canon is much better. And that fast UWA isn't the paragon of lenses. Short range, difficult to use a filter, expensive, and prone to flare. How many Nikonians use the 14-24, I ask?
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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2014, 06:36:57 PM »
If I was a D800 owner I would be really pleased with Nikon, as I see hardly no reason at all to upgrade, and consequently they are saving me from GAS and allowing me to comfortably sleep at night knowing I still have some money in the bank.  ;D

If Canon did such an incremental upgrade to the 5D Mark III, I am not sure CanonRumors website could handle the amount of angry traffic!!

Are we sure this is serious, or is Nikon just having a laugh?!!

I was a D800 owner. (Sold it pretty quickly)  There is a reason why the D800 is selling new for $2000.  Nikon is doing the same thing as they did with the poor selling D600, D4, and D800, putting a new badge on it and adding a few features and hoping that someone will buy it.  And, all for only $3300.  The price is the biggest change.

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2014, 06:43:00 PM »
it's interesting to see nikons different approach (with updates between generations, whether it is to fix issues they had or try to be more attractive buying option)

The 36 mp is great, but i didnt mind going down to 24-16 and now even 8 mp !, partly because of the steps i guess.

Also im looking forward to see if canons new sensors will match sony's current gen or surpass it by quite a margin, which would be great for all system users.


Aglet

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 08:26:30 PM »

Nikonian linguistic analysis: the -10 suffix translates to 'fixing a problem'.  The SB910 fixed the thermal issues of the SB900.  The D610 fixed the oil spatter and banned-from-sale-in-China-debacle of the D600.  The D810 fixes the problem Nikon had of producing both the D800 and D800E.

I wonder if there is a neuroanatomist-10 in the nikon forums...

+1
perhaps we can start a poll for the most requested/needed feature changes and improvements ;)

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2014, 08:26:30 PM »

Aglet

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2014, 08:30:11 PM »
The changes between the d800s and d810 are not insignificant

http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/en_INC/o/57qXCcC4VtbrorNNsWOsXvKoNmM/PDF/D810-D800-D800E_Comparison_Sheet_en.pdf

but neither at they significant enough to convince me to upgrade my stable of 800/e at this time.
The improved battery life is big. and the increased fps, AF, metering, etc.
And if the 64 ISO is real then maybe we'll see DxOmark results showing it a wee bit closer to 14 stops worth of DR at the pixel level.

neuroanatomist

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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2014, 08:44:38 PM »

Nikonian linguistic analysis: the -10 suffix translates to 'fixing a problem'.  The SB910 fixed the thermal issues of the SB900.  The D610 fixed the oil spatter and banned-from-sale-in-China-debacle of the D600.  The D810 fixes the problem Nikon had of producing both the D800 and D800E.

I wonder if there is a neuroanatomist-10 in the nikon forums...

+1
perhaps we can start a poll for the most requested/needed feature changes and improvements ;)

I propose a poll to see who among the CR members neuroanatomist, dilbert, or Aglet has provided the most helpful/useful/beneficial information to the other members of the forum.  The one with the most votes earns a pat on the back, the other two are permanently banned from CR forums.  I'll abide by the results if you two agree to do so as well.  What do you say, gentlemen...are you ready to put your reputations on the line? 
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Re: D810!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2014, 08:44:38 PM »