October 24, 2014, 08:11:25 AM

Author Topic: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3  (Read 29068 times)

zim

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2014, 07:28:14 AM »
DPP, for example, has an almost miraculous ability to "add DR" in the shadows compared to Lr; Optics Pro is good too, albeit not as good as it could be in reaching into just the shadows.

That's really interesting Keith, I've recently moved from DPP to Optics Pro mainly for Prime which I think is fantastic but I didn't realise I may be losing out on pulling shadows. Admitedly the only time I can think of wanting to pull shadows recently was about a 1-1/2 stops (oops my bad!) so I'm not sure if any differences would show at that? Must give it a try.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2014, 07:28:14 AM »

PhotoCat

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2014, 08:56:30 AM »


I agree i couldn't  imagine paying money to watch their 9 hours of video they are peddling at the end!

on the cameras one thing that really interests me is the face detect metering the d810 had man that awesome i seriously hope canon do something similar.

Yup, Face-detect metering in viewfinder mode. It was there in D800 too and that was 2 years ago!

mackguyver

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2014, 09:09:48 AM »


I agree i couldn't  imagine paying money to watch their 9 hours of video they are peddling at the end!

on the cameras one thing that really interests me is the face detect metering the d810 had man that awesome i seriously hope canon do something similar.

Yup, Face-detect metering in viewfinder mode. It was there in D800 too and that was 2 years ago!
It's in the 1D X...

jdramirez

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2014, 09:20:16 AM »
The fact is rising tide lifts all boats.
I am not concerned one bit about videography for myself, yet the fact that Canon seems to fall behind in prosumer or low end pro videography behind Panasonic and Sony is unfortunately going to affect revenues. If Canon decides not to bring what is now standard or expected to sub-10K cameras it will definitely affect their bottom line. 5DII used to be the definitive line in HDSLR filming, now GH4 and A7s are much better it seems. Even Black Magic was said to be better than the 5DIII.
Similarly, Nikon has brought lots of great new features in the D810. I am not concerned that my 5DIII doesn't have it, but I would like Canon to bring out a camera that does have all those features so they don't lose customers. A high-res high-DR sensor would certainly help.
I would like Canon to flourish because it will affect me indirectly and allow me to use the great equipment they bring out. I am concerned that Canon's business strategy (which often overrides market surveys for big companies) might be too conservative.

I agree 110%. Sony absolutely has plans to take marketshare from Canon and Nikon. The question is will Canon respond or keep nickel and diming us with incremental updates?

Sony has a lens problem. The other issue with AF and other rough edges would take maybe two or three new generations of cameras to work out. I think we will see Canon and Nikon users switching in big numbers.

Do people not remember the 5d mkii?  The mkiii is a revolution in auto focus and low light performance... nickel and dime in the rebel line... sure... but the 1dx is reportedly amazing and the mkiii is borderline great.  How soon we forget.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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raptor3x

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2014, 09:22:13 AM »
That this test used a converter which does not favour Canon shadows (at x00% view, anyway - FFS) tells you far more about the converter than it does about the camera, and for a supposedly pro tester/photographer to utterly ignore the significance of choice of converter in getting the best out of a camera's files, is risible.

You don't test well by testing in some supposedly equal playing field (in this case a commonly-used converter); you test in such as way as to get the best out of each camera, and that will often necessitate different converter choices.

Ergo, this "test" proves nothing about what the 5D Mk III can do compared with the D810, just what it did do in a half-arsed effort which seems more intended to bring attention to the testers than to the cameras...

I just did a comparison between LR5.6 and DPP4 and am not seeing this huge difference in shadow noise that you're describing.  Can you show some examples?
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2014, 09:25:16 AM »
Btw comparing a 5D3 with the D810's latest features is not really fair, because the 5D3 is a 3 yrs old camera, and technology is rapidly progressing. If you always want the latest camera technology, you'd have to change systems about every six months...

There have been several comments to that effect in this thread, and I totally disagree.  It's perfectly fair to compare Nikon's current high-end FF body to Canon's current high-end FF body. 

The 'unfairness' is the biased comparison in the linked video.  Comparing only at ISO 100, that smells like DxO's BS (but then, lots of people – including some pros – seem to like that smell).  Someone asked about performance at ISO 12800, he said he'd post samples but that the D810 was better...yet he didn't post samples.  No follow through, or he couldn't back up his statement with images?  A 63% hit rate with 5DIII Servo tracking of a subject walking slowly toward you in bright light (even his wife knew that wasn't a 'sports/action' test!)?  Maybe...if you gimp the test by using an AF mode not recommended for moving subjects.  Even then, that seems too low...but maybe that's due to the lens, as I've read that Nikon makes their AF algorithms available to 3rd party lens makers while Canon does not.

So, while it's fair to compare them, performing a biased comparison doesn't help anyone.  Well, that's not true – it helps him earn money...and a reputation worthy of Ken Rockwell.

The reviewers takeaways on the 5DIII vs D810...the D810 is vastly superior, but: "If you have a Mark III and you're not a pro, it's probably not worth switching," and, "If you're putting photos on Facebook...it probably won't make much difference."  Sheesh.
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mackguyver

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2014, 09:48:30 AM »
Btw comparing a 5D3 with the D810's latest features is not really fair, because the 5D3 is a 3 yrs old camera, and technology is rapidly progressing. If you always want the latest camera technology, you'd have to change systems about every six months...

There have been several comments to that effect in this thread, and I totally disagree.  It's perfectly fair to compare Nikon's current high-end FF body to Canon's current high-end FF body. 

The 'unfairness' is the biased comparison in the linked video.  Comparing only at ISO 100, that smells like DxO's BS (but then, lots of people – including some pros – seem to like that smell).  Someone asked about performance at ISO 12800, he said he'd post samples but that the D810 was better...yet he didn't post samples.  No follow through, or he couldn't back up his statement with images?  A 63% hit rate with 5DIII Servo tracking of a subject walking slowly toward you in bright light (even his wife knew that wasn't a 'sports/action' test!)?  Maybe...if you gimp the test by using an AF mode not recommended for moving subjects.  Even then, that seems too low...but maybe that's due to the lens, as I've read that Nikon makes their AF algorithms available to 3rd party lens makers while Canon does not.

So, while it's fair to compare them, performing a biased comparison doesn't help anyone.  Well, that's not true – it helps him earn money...and a reputation worthy of Ken Rockwell.

The reviewers takeaways on the 5DIII vs D810...the D810 is vastly superior, but: "If you have a Mark III and you're not a pro, it's probably not worth switching," and, "If you're putting photos on Facebook...it probably won't make much difference."  Sheesh.
I haven't even watched the video, but I knew the source (and stand by my post at the beginning of this thread), so I'm not surprised to hear my suspicions confirmed.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2014, 09:48:30 AM »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2014, 10:03:31 AM »
My 5D3 still rocks. Images are great, AF hit rate is high, video is great, all my Canon lenses are rock solid top-notch. Spend many $1000 and lots of time switching to Nikon? You've got to be kidding! It would be quicker and cheaper to buy a 1Dx and blow away the D810 in every way but resolution (but I don't need that either), or wait a few months and blow away the D810 with a shiny new 5DIV.  Most professionals will tell you that switching brands is a fools game. Of course there may be exceptions from time to time on specific needs, but not in general all-round use.

I think Canon will blow away the competition soon, and the leapfrog game will continue. They will answer Sony's A7 line, they will further refine dual pixel AF, they will continue to expand the impressive lens lineup.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2014, 10:16:44 AM »


Yup, Face-detect metering in viewfinder mode. It was there in D800 too and that was 2 years ago!
It's in the 1D X...

Cool! In addition to non-flash portraits, does the 1DX face-det metering work with e-TTL flash as well? (just curious, since D800 & D4 claim to do that)
 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 10:24:27 AM by PhotoCat »

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2014, 10:45:07 AM »
These sort of reviews always follow the same pattern. The Canon is underexposed so the data is a little dense. Then they lift heavy shadow low lights to mid tone. Voila ! Job done.

Working in the wrong AF mode.  ??? or more probably  ::) Or from their point of view  :-[

It's all about not working with the 5DIII.


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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2014, 11:06:58 AM »
My 5D3 still rocks. Images are great, AF hit rate is high, video is great, all my Canon lenses are rock solid top-notch. Spend many $1000 and lots of time switching to Nikon? You've got to be kidding! It would be quicker and cheaper to buy a 1Dx and blow away the D810 in every way but resolution (but I don't need that either), or wait a few months and blow away the D810 with a shiny new 5DIV.  Most professionals will tell you that switching brands is a fools game. Of course there may be exceptions from time to time on specific needs, but not in general all-round use.

I think Canon will blow away the competition soon, and the leapfrog game will continue. They will answer Sony's A7 line, they will further refine dual pixel AF, they will continue to expand the impressive lens lineup.

98% of the time when I miss, it is my fault... not the mkiii's.  I like that... what I need to do though is improve my practical execution though my practical knowledge is pretty decent.

I suppose my point is that I'm more than satisfied with the mkiii's performance... so much so that if the mkiv came out tomorrow and I could swap for free... I'm not sure I would bite.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

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raptor3x

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2014, 11:14:45 AM »
Someone asked about performance at ISO 12800, he said he'd post samples but that the D810 was better...yet he didn't post samples.  No follow through, or he couldn't back up his statement with images?

To be fair, the DPReview comparison between the 5D3 and the D810 backs this up.  The D810 seems about equal to the 6D in terms of high ISO RAWs.
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2014, 11:33:54 AM »

The 'unfairness' is the biased comparison in the linked video.  Comparing only at ISO 100, that smells like DxO's BS (but then, lots of people – including some pros – seem to like that smell). 

I think next time you should watch the video more closely - Most of the time Phony was shooting at ISO 64. 

Portrait shots etc Canon and ISO 100 and Nikon at ISO 64.

If he wanted a real honest comparison, having ISO the same might have helped.  Never saw any clips of the "Sportrait" shots from the canon side, but notices settings were 1/1000 F/2.8 and Auto ISO.  Would have been interesting to see comparison with a PROPER AF set up as well as Shutter Priority mode and ISO 100

But from what I was seeing, a lot of times Nikon was set at ISO 64

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2014, 11:33:54 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2014, 11:53:30 AM »
Someone asked about performance at ISO 12800, he said he'd post samples but that the D810 was better...yet he didn't post samples.  No follow through, or he couldn't back up his statement with images?
To be fair, the DPReview comparison between the 5D3 and the D810 backs this up.

Except that DPR 'testing' is based on default ACR conversions, and like most 'high ISO tests' they are not 'low light tests' because they're shot in bright light with a very fast shutter, which has significant implications for the relative noise contributions.
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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2014, 12:02:19 PM »


Yup, Face-detect metering in viewfinder mode. It was there in D800 too and that was 2 years ago!
It's in the 1D X...

Cool! In addition to non-flash portraits, does the 1DX face-det metering work with e-TTL flash as well? (just curious, since D800 & D4 claim to do that)
Not sure, and I don't think it's documented anywhere, but I would imagine so.  To be perfectly clear - Canon's documentation on the 1D X feature that does this is extremely limited.  All we really know for sure is that it's a 100,000 pixel sensor that detects colors and faces and uses that information for metering and motion in normal viewfinder/ phase-detect AF mode.  What I know from actual use is that it works extremely well for portraits and even wildlife.

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Re: Tony Northrup - D810 vs. 5D Mk3
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2014, 12:02:19 PM »