September 18, 2014, 09:45:35 PM

Author Topic: Canon 6D True High ISO King?  (Read 9208 times)

Chosenbydestiny

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 10:14:03 AM »
I own both and I'll end this argument by saying, if it's a paid job I reach for the 5D3 and bring a 6D for backup/reserve but if it isn't I just take the 6D which I agree to disagree has slightly faster focusing in very low light via center point but nothing to shake a fist over.
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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 10:14:03 AM »

Dylan777

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2014, 11:11:35 AM »
5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
-5d3 clearly has overall better AF, but on the other hand I can't put in a high precision focusing screen meaning I can't MF fast lenses accurately through viewfinder (or see what I am truly AFing); 6D center point also rated as being able to focus in lower light than 5d3 per Canon specs.
-I like the joystick on 5d3, but programming the pad on 6d to move AF points works also with a bit less comfort.
-I like the image quality of 5d3, but 6d has better high ISO performance.
-The dual card slots and 1/8000 shutter speed on 5d3 are a nice bonus I'd definitely use, but then again 6d has gps/wifi at no extra cost; though I'd rather have the fast shutter and dual cards than gps/wifi, fast shutter might reduce my usage of ND filters in daylight with fast lenses wide open.

I would like to say the 5d3 is a clear cut upgrade from 6D but there are a important few areas where the 6D exceeds the 5d3.  Hopefully 5d4 will rectify these issues in all areas so I'd consider upgrading to it, as right now the disadvantages of the 5d3 prevent me from considering an upgrade...

LOL...really? I can't believe what I'm hearing GPS/WiFi are more important in choosing between 5D3 & 6D, LOL ;D. You made my morning ;D ;D ;D

If I'm a wedding shooter, 5D III is clearly a winner. I have 4 friends(PRO wedding shooters), none of them carry 6D. Combined, they have eight 5DIII & six 1dx.

With all focus points below, why MF? With just 41 combination of dual & cross type, recompose the shot is almost down to zero = less miss shots, even with f1.2 lenses.

1. How do you MF in live wedding when your subjects are moving around?
2. At what high ISO does 6D is better than 5DIII?
3. Assuming 6D center AF focus faster than 5DIII in -3EV condtion, would you delivery 12800ISO photos to your clients?





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jocau

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2014, 01:52:58 PM »
Ironically enough I was at a friend's wedding last month and the photographer was using a 5D3. I watched her a bit only to find out she was using the center AF point exclusively...

My initial thought? She could have also shot that wedding with a 6D if she only uses the center AF point.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 01:55:06 PM by jocau »
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Dylan777

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2014, 03:33:31 PM »
Ironically enough I was at a friend's wedding last month and the photographer was using a 5D3. I watched her a bit only to find out she was using the center AF point exclusively...

My initial thought? She could have also shot that wedding with a 6D if she only uses the center AF point.
Dual cross perhaps more precise than just cross.
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MichaelHodges

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2014, 03:46:07 PM »
6D is a great landscape and general use camera. Many people don't need a sports/wildlife camera, or would prefer to have a specialist sports/wildlife camera (7D or 1D4) with higher frame rate than the 5D3. T

I always reach for the 6D over my crop cameras when shooting wildlife. There's an overall tonality and smoothness to the images at all ISO's that really makes fur, fin, and feather "pop".

MLfan3

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2014, 04:35:29 PM »
some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of  AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
The GH4 and the A7s are better than the 6D in this specific area, but none of Nikon Canon with mirror beats it.
Oh and also for long exposure thermal noise, the 6D is about 34 percent better than the 5D3 , you can see it in all sensor tests including Roger's.

Ruined

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 05:02:16 PM »
5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
-5d3 clearly has overall better AF, but on the other hand I can't put in a high precision focusing screen meaning I can't MF fast lenses accurately through viewfinder (or see what I am truly AFing); 6D center point also rated as being able to focus in lower light than 5d3 per Canon specs.
-I like the joystick on 5d3, but programming the pad on 6d to move AF points works also with a bit less comfort.
-I like the image quality of 5d3, but 6d has better high ISO performance.
-The dual card slots and 1/8000 shutter speed on 5d3 are a nice bonus I'd definitely use, but then again 6d has gps/wifi at no extra cost; though I'd rather have the fast shutter and dual cards than gps/wifi, fast shutter might reduce my usage of ND filters in daylight with fast lenses wide open.

I would like to say the 5d3 is a clear cut upgrade from 6D but there are a important few areas where the 6D exceeds the 5d3.  Hopefully 5d4 will rectify these issues in all areas so I'd consider upgrading to it, as right now the disadvantages of the 5d3 prevent me from considering an upgrade...

LOL...really? I can't believe what I'm hearing GPS/WiFi are more important in choosing between 5D3 & 6D, LOL ;D. You made my morning ;D ;D ;D

Did you read my post?  It does not appear so.

Quote
If I'm a wedding shooter, 5D III is clearly a winner. I have 4 friends(PRO wedding shooters), none of them carry 6D. Combined, they have eight 5DIII & six 1dx.

And, what does this mean to the total pool of wedding photographers which is multitudes greater than 4?   Are you saying your friends are unable to shoot a wedding with a 5D2 or 6D? What did they do before the 5D3 came out?  My guess is use the 5D2, which has worse autofocus than the 6D.  I would be very concerned about the skill level of a professional unable to shoot a high quality wedding with a 6D.

The 1DX I would use no contest over the 6D as it dominates in all aspects, but I cannot yet justify the cost of two 1DX bodies when 6D is doing the job currently.  I could justify two 5D4 bodies, but only if Canon does not gimp them by removing ability to interchange focus screens as they did with the 5D3.

Quote
With all focus points below, why MF? With just 41 combination of dual & cross type, recompose the shot is almost down to zero = less miss shots, even with f1.2 lenses.

Focus & recompose at f/1.2 will not acquire exact focus due to the thin DOF.  While the 5d3 has a ton of focal points, often none of them are exactly where the eye would be in thin DOF portrait shots in either landscape or portrait orientations.  Hence there is no way to truly focus properly for thin DOF portraits on the 5D3 aside from MF in Live View, which requires a tripod; you can spray&pray or recompose and hope it comes out okay, but I'd rather get it right the first time.  The 6D comes stock with the same screen the 5D3 has stock, and they are both terrible for MFing fast lenses compared to the Ec-S/Eg-S screen which can be used on the 1DX/6D - but not the 5D3.

Quote
1. How do you MF in live wedding when your subjects are moving around?

You don't MF when you are capturing guests moving around.  You MF for precise focus when doing shallow DOF portraits with bride/groom which are some of the most important shots of the whole wedding.  5d3's MF capabilities are very weak since there is no way to see true DOF with fast lenses unlike the 1DX and 6D with high precision screen.  Even when using autofocus with fast lenses the high precision screen better shows what is in focus and what is not prior to taking the photo than the stock screen.  For lots of motion I would center point focus in AI Servo and crop afterwards when needed.

Quote
2. At what high ISO does 6D is better than 5DIII?

I'd say it starts to becomes noticeable at 6400, which can be necessary at low light venues.

Quote
3. Assuming 6D center AF focus faster than 5DIII in -3EV condtion, would you delivery 12800ISO photos to your clients?

Not usually, though delivering a 12800 ISO photo is better than no photo.  However, this is why I use f/1.2-f/1.4 primes... which once again, cannot be MF'd properly through the viewfinder on a 5d3 due to Canon obviously gimping the 5d3 on purpose to differentiate it from 1DX.  Canon literally screwed a thin plate over where you would access the focus screen on the 5d3, but more problematicly removed the metering options for high precision screens out of the C.Fn settings - meaning if you change focus screens on 5d3, you void the warranty and your metering will be off.


The bottom line is, I don't want to give up the ability to MF my fast lenses through the viewfinder, and I also think the 6D autofocus is sufficient for most events (sports excluded, where I would rather use a 1DX).
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 05:24:36 PM by Ruined »

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2014, 05:02:16 PM »

MLfan3

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2014, 05:12:12 PM »
just admit it , the 5D3 is an old tech and already dated when it was first announced.

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2014, 05:26:53 PM »
My personal experience/opinion: The 6D works good in critally light conditions, the 5D3s AF is superior.
Visited an workshop in Munich´s zoo. Compared the shots with the 8 other fotographers (4x6D, 5x7D, 4x5D3. Mostly 100-400mm, 300mm2.8+2x, 1x 400mm, 1x500mm):
5D3 was superior, shooting the fast flying hawks and milans. Sharp pictures: 6D ~50%, 7D~75, 5D3 ~80-90%.
But when we shot swimming sea lions (dark objects), the AF of the 6D could (nearly) reach the 5D3s. And the details of the black and dark brown lion pelts were as good as the 5D3s. 
An good lens helps the AF of the 6D @ moving objects more than if you use it on the 7D. Using the outer AF points in moving objects, is a clear point of the 5D3 or 7D.

Dylan777

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2014, 08:08:42 PM »
5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
-5d3 clearly has overall better AF, but on the other hand I can't put in a high precision focusing screen meaning I can't MF fast lenses accurately through viewfinder (or see what I am truly AFing); 6D center point also rated as being able to focus in lower light than 5d3 per Canon specs.
-I like the joystick on 5d3, but programming the pad on 6d to move AF points works also with a bit less comfort.
-I like the image quality of 5d3, but 6d has better high ISO performance.
-The dual card slots and 1/8000 shutter speed on 5d3 are a nice bonus I'd definitely use, but then again 6d has gps/wifi at no extra cost; though I'd rather have the fast shutter and dual cards than gps/wifi, fast shutter might reduce my usage of ND filters in daylight with fast lenses wide open.

I would like to say the 5d3 is a clear cut upgrade from 6D but there are a important few areas where the 6D exceeds the 5d3.  Hopefully 5d4 will rectify these issues in all areas so I'd consider upgrading to it, as right now the disadvantages of the 5d3 prevent me from considering an upgrade...

LOL...really? I can't believe what I'm hearing GPS/WiFi are more important in choosing between 5D3 & 6D, LOL ;D. You made my morning ;D ;D ;D

Did you read my post?  It does not appear so.

Quote
If I'm a wedding shooter, 5D III is clearly a winner. I have 4 friends(PRO wedding shooters), none of them carry 6D. Combined, they have eight 5DIII & six 1dx.

And, what does this mean to the total pool of wedding photographers which is multitudes greater than 4?   Are you saying your friends are unable to shoot a wedding with a 5D2 or 6D? What did they do before the 5D3 came out?  My guess is use the 5D2, which has worse autofocus than the 6D.  I would be very concerned about the skill level of a professional unable to shoot a high quality wedding with a 6D.

The 1DX I would use no contest over the 6D as it dominates in all aspects, but I cannot yet justify the cost of two 1DX bodies when 6D is doing the job currently.  I could justify two 5D4 bodies, but only if Canon does not gimp them by removing ability to interchange focus screens as they did with the 5D3.

Quote
With all focus points below, why MF? With just 41 combination of dual & cross type, recompose the shot is almost down to zero = less miss shots, even with f1.2 lenses.

Focus & recompose at f/1.2 will not acquire exact focus due to the thin DOF.  While the 5d3 has a ton of focal points, often none of them are exactly where the eye would be in thin DOF portrait shots in either landscape or portrait orientations.  Hence there is no way to truly focus properly for thin DOF portraits on the 5D3 aside from MF in Live View, which requires a tripod; you can spray&pray or recompose and hope it comes out okay, but I'd rather get it right the first time.  The 6D comes stock with the same screen the 5D3 has stock, and they are both terrible for MFing fast lenses compared to the Ec-S/Eg-S screen which can be used on the 1DX/6D - but not the 5D3.

Quote
1. How do you MF in live wedding when your subjects are moving around?

You don't MF when you are capturing guests moving around.  You MF for precise focus when doing shallow DOF portraits with bride/groom which are some of the most important shots of the whole wedding.  5d3's MF capabilities are very weak since there is no way to see true DOF with fast lenses unlike the 1DX and 6D with high precision screen.  Even when using autofocus with fast lenses the high precision screen better shows what is in focus and what is not prior to taking the photo than the stock screen.  For lots of motion I would center point focus in AI Servo and crop afterwards when needed.

Quote
2. At what high ISO does 6D is better than 5DIII?

I'd say it starts to becomes noticeable at 6400, which can be necessary at low light venues.

Quote
3. Assuming 6D center AF focus faster than 5DIII in -3EV condtion, would you delivery 12800ISO photos to your clients?

Not usually, though delivering a 12800 ISO photo is better than no photo.  However, this is why I use f/1.2-f/1.4 primes... which once again, cannot be MF'd properly through the viewfinder on a 5d3 due to Canon obviously gimping the 5d3 on purpose to differentiate it from 1DX.  Canon literally screwed a thin plate over where you would access the focus screen on the 5d3, but more problematicly removed the metering options for high precision screens out of the C.Fn settings - meaning if you change focus screens on 5d3, you void the warranty and your metering will be off.


The bottom line is, I don't want to give up the ability to MF my fast lenses through the viewfinder, and I also think the 6D autofocus is sufficient for most events (sports excluded, where I would rather use a 1DX).
I just got back from shooting the surfers. Feel like I need a cold Starbucks classic espresso. About we both get one each and continue our discussion there.  ;)
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dgatwood

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2014, 10:14:31 PM »
The bottom line is, I don't want to give up the ability to MF my fast lenses through the viewfinder, and I also think the 6D autofocus is sufficient for most events (sports excluded, where I would rather use a 1DX).

IMO, the 6D's max FPS is a much bigger problem for sports photography than its AF performance (which in my experience is fairly usable for sports).

Where the 6D's AF really falls short, IMO, is bird-in-flight photography, where the much higher AF point density of a 5D Mark III or 1DX would be a big step up.

verysimplejason

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2014, 10:58:23 PM »
some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of  AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
The GH4 and the A7s are better than the 6D in this specific area, but none of Nikon Canon with mirror beats it.
Oh and also for long exposure thermal noise, the 6D is about 34 percent better than the 5D3 , you can see it in all sensor tests including Roger's.

Some guys just really don't want to admit 6D's sensor IQ superiority in low-light.  Well, if it's AF that's more important to them and what defines "HIGH ISO KING", then so be it.  We can't argue on something where our definition differs. 

It really hurts when you invested some more $$$ just to find out that it's not superior in everything to something that's significantly cheaper.  ;)

jocau

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2014, 12:35:01 AM »
some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of  AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
The GH4 and the A7s are better than the 6D in this specific area, but none of Nikon Canon with mirror beats it.
Oh and also for long exposure thermal noise, the 6D is about 34 percent better than the 5D3 , you can see it in all sensor tests including Roger's.

Some guys just really don't want to admit 6D's sensor IQ superiority in low-light.  Well, if it's AF that's more important to them and what defines "HIGH ISO KING", then so be it.  We can't argue on something where our definition differs. 

It really hurts when you invested some more $$$ just to find out that it's not superior in everything to something that's significantly cheaper.  ;)

Correct, but the 6D also suffers from that 'disease' as the outer AF points of even the T5i are better than those of the 6D.
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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #42 on: August 25, 2014, 12:35:01 AM »

MichaelHodges

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2014, 02:10:58 AM »
The -3LV focus capability of course is a marketing stunt by canon to give people the feeling they don't have the all out inferior product

I'm having a hard time figuring which one is the inferior product. This noise monkey at long ISO, or the 6D?

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/13/canon-6d-and-5dmk3-noise-comparison-for-high-iso-long-exposures/


I'm a bit puzzled at the blowback against superior sensors by some on this forum (regardless of brand).



verysimplejason

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2014, 03:04:11 AM »
some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of  AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
The GH4 and the A7s are better than the 6D in this specific area, but none of Nikon Canon with mirror beats it.
Oh and also for long exposure thermal noise, the 6D is about 34 percent better than the 5D3 , you can see it in all sensor tests including Roger's.

Some guys just really don't want to admit 6D's sensor IQ superiority in low-light.  Well, if it's AF that's more important to them and what defines "HIGH ISO KING", then so be it.  We can't argue on something where our definition differs. 

It really hurts when you invested some more $$$ just to find out that it's not superior in everything to something that's significantly cheaper.  ;)

Correct, but the 6D also suffers from that 'disease' as the outer AF points of even the T5i are better than those of the 6D.

I'm a center-point / MF user so this doesn't bother me.  For some, the center point is enough but that's not saying that the outer points doesn't work.

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Re: Canon 6D True High ISO King?
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2014, 03:04:11 AM »