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Author Topic: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?  (Read 17934 times)

jdramirez

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2015, 02:32:14 PM »
So I've been itching to upgrade to a new body.  I've always been told when you upgrade, always get new glass.
If you're suggesting that a body upgrade warrants a glass upgrade, I would disagree.   It all depends upon what you have and whether it's limitations are holding you back.

The 7D is a great upgrade from the T3.  If it's the right upgrade for you depends upon the price.  If sports is a priority and the prices are close, consider the 70D.  Even the T5i might be a better choice.  A refurbished T5i body (from Canon) sells for $550.  If the deal on the 7D is better than that, then take it.  If not, then you have some thinking to do.

That's interesting. I didn't read what he wrote the way he wrote it.  I assumed he screwed up the saying, upgrade glass first, then upgrade your body.  Huh... that changes the dynamic of what I think. 

I'm too analytical... I'm thinking in terms of math and there are to many variables that have yet to be defined.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2015, 02:32:14 PM »

hgraf

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2015, 05:43:55 PM »
If you do only portrait and landscape, I'm going to say don't do it because you won't see any of the benefits.

I have to potentially disagree with portrait. The massively larger buffer on the 7D is a really important upgrade for shooting portraits of models that tend to move alot (i.e. babies/kids/pets). I'm ALWAYS hitting the limit on the buffer on my T4i in those situations (only 3-5 shots in RAW).

Granted one can deal with this by shooting just JPEG, which I do sometimes...

jdramirez

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2015, 06:04:43 PM »
If you do only portrait and landscape, I'm going to say don't do it because you won't see any of the benefits.

I have to potentially disagree with portrait. The massively larger buffer on the 7D is a really important upgrade for shooting portraits of models that tend to move alot (i.e. babies/kids/pets). I'm ALWAYS hitting the limit on the buffer on my T4i in those situations (only 3-5 shots in RAW).

Granted one can deal with this by shooting just JPEG, which I do sometimes...

I think I may agree with you on that. I'm trying to think about when I made the transition to full raw... and it might have been after... or at the tail end of having my 60D... Either way... I didn't really notice... but that is a good point. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

pcdebb

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2015, 10:54:13 PM »
I'm glad I came here for advice.  It was hard for me to tell which was newer/better.  I had also looked at the 70d.  That 7d is a beast (didn't realize it was older), noticed right away how heavy that thing is!  One huge drawback is having to find a CF memory card.  They are expensive and hard to find it seems :(  I do like that it has more AF points.  The 70d sounds better in terms of AF reliability.  Altho I'm relying more on manual focus and getting better images because of it, sometimes I need AF to be spot on.

As far as what i shoot, I like birds and landscape.  I do casual candids of family, but i'm more into the outdoors.  My T3 is wonderful, but i feel like I need something better when it comes to resolution since it's only 12mp.  And this is probably where I need the real lesson to be taught to me.  My "other camera" was 24mp and it seemed that my pics were so much clearer because of resolution, or is there a mind game im losing here lol

The 7d was going for around $600.  I'm reading alot of options here in the thread, so I may just hold off and see what's a good fit for me.  All of your input is valuable, and I thank you all very much!

Oh and btw, i'm a she ;)

jdramirez

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2015, 11:28:16 PM »
I'm glad I came here for advice.  It was hard for me to tell which was newer/better.  I had also looked at the 70d.  That 7d is a beast (didn't realize it was older), noticed right away how heavy that thing is!  One huge drawback is having to find a CF memory card.  They are expensive and hard to find it seems :(  I do like that it has more AF points.  The 70d sounds better in terms of AF reliability.  Altho I'm relying more on manual focus and getting better images because of it, sometimes I need AF to be spot on.

As far as what i shoot, I like birds and landscape.  I do casual candids of family, but i'm more into the outdoors.  My T3 is wonderful, but i feel like I need something better when it comes to resolution since it's only 12mp.  And this is probably where I need the real lesson to be taught to me.  My "other camera" was 24mp and it seemed that my pics were so much clearer because of resolution, or is there a mind game im losing here lol

The 7d was going for around $600.  I'm reading alot of options here in the thread, so I may just hold off and see what's a good fit for me.  All of your input is valuable, and I thank you all very much!

Oh and btw, i'm a she ;)

A few small things.  CF is more expensive, but it is also faster.  The write speeds for my CF card is something like 150 mb/s... but I think (because the Canon bodies don't take advantage of the UHS write speeds) the write speeds for SD are around 30 mb/s.  So if you are taking pictures of birds in flight... and you are taking one and another after another... your buffer will clear faster with CF than SD (provided you are shooting in raw).  If you are shooting in .jpg... it probably won't matter. 

If you are shooting with manual focus... it sounds like you are taking photos of birds @ rest... so in that case... it won't really matter.  And if AF isn't a key issue... you might want to consider one of the 18mp line... the sl1 is nice and small... my daughter had one... and for long hikes... it doesn't weigh you down a ton. Ditto with the t5, and the other 10 cameras that all use the 18mp sensor. 

As for megapixels... they do help... but there are several things that go into image quality, from low light performance (and controlling grain), to color fidelity, to contrast and that dreaded dynamic range... So a 24mp with a built in lens can do well in good lighting conditions... but I can work miracles using an 8mp camera and beautiful lighting (and of course a super expensive lens). 

Good luck... hope you figure it out.  One small thing... and I'm making assumptions again... but if your 24mp camera was a point and shoot... and the shots used flash, that might be something you haven't considered.  Adding more light to your subject.  Might not make a difference with a bird at 80 ft away... but a portrait and seeing more of the detail... that could be the cause.

Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

Marsu42

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2015, 11:31:42 PM »
The 7d was going for around $600.  I'm reading alot of options here in the thread, so I may just hold off and see what's a good fit for me.  All of your input is valuable, and I thank you all very much!

That's a great price, if you want an even cheaper good camera look at the very nice 60d (sd cards, swivel screen, a bit smaller/lighter).

The 7d1 has the oldest incarnation of Canon's long-running 18mp crop sensor which can result in visible banding when raising shadows, it's bit better on 60d, it depends on how heavy your post-processing is. The good thing about the 7d1 is this is the cheapest Canon body that is designed for tracking moving objects like birds in flight.

Oh and btw, i'm a she ;)

Oh my, what are *you* doing on a tech nerd internet forum then :-p ?

FTb-n

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2015, 01:19:14 AM »
The 7d was going for around $600.  I'm reading alot of options here in the thread, so I may just hold off and see what's a good fit for me.  All of your input is valuable, and I thank you all very much!

That's a great price, if you want an even cheaper good camera look at the very nice 60d (sd cards, swivel screen, a bit smaller/lighter).

The 7d1 has the oldest incarnation of Canon's long-running 18mp crop sensor which can result in visible banding when raising shadows, it's bit better on 60d, it depends on how heavy your post-processing is. The good thing about the 7d1 is this is the cheapest Canon body that is designed for tracking moving objects like birds in flight.

Oh and btw, i'm a she ;)

Oh my, what are *you* doing on a tech nerd internet forum then :-p ?
60D is another fine choice.  I have both the 7D and the 60D.  Even though I have upgraded to the 5D3, I've kept these crop bodies mostly for my wife and kids to use.  But, I still grab the 7D once in a while.  Lately, I've been using it with the 35 f2.0 IS.  But, I digress.

A few notes.  If you are having trouble with the AF, then it might be the mode.  Are you using single-point focusing?  The 7D is a better option with 19 focus points and it locks on quite well with it's "single point expansion".  Assuming limited action, you shouldn't have any problem locking on focus with the right AF mode with either camera.

The 7D will come into it's own with action shots.  It has a processor dedicated to the focus system and two Digic process to speed up the processing of the images.  The buffer may not be bigger, but the camera is much faster at grabbing an image and moving it to the card.  Because of its superior tracking, my in-focus keeper rate went up when I upgraded from the 60D to the 7D.

I use 32G Transcend 400x and 800x cards.  They sell for $30-36 on Amazon.  They were closer to $60 when I first ordered mine.  These have been quite reliable and I don't see a difference between the two speeds.

Buffer can certainly be a concern with the Rebels.  For the most part, it shouldn't be an issue with the 60D and 70D, unless spray and pray is your shooting style. 

I've stopped shooting JPG and shoot nothing but RAW.  The RAW burst mode on the 60D, 70D, and 5D3 are quite similar -- in the 15-18 range.  I shoot mostly action with the 5D3 (around 40K images annually) and rarely have to wait for the buffer.  I do lean heavily on timing to get the shot and not on burst.  The 7D can shoot about 24 images in RAW before buffer delays.   

For what it's worth, if I grab a crop body, I still prefer my 7D over my 60D.  I also like its heavier build.  So, if it's a choice between these two bodies and pricing is close, I'd recommend the 7D.

Lastly, the new breed of sensor in 70D has about a "stop" advantage over the 7D/60D in noise when shooting JPGs.  This is because the 70D's DIGIC 5+ chip better at converting RAW images to JPGs.  But, if you shoot RAW, this is a moot point.  The "noise" advantage of the 70D isn't as great when comparing RAW images.
Main Kit: 1Dx2, 1Dx, 5D3, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6L IS II, 24-70 f2.8L II, 24-105 f4L IS

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2015, 01:19:14 AM »

pcdebb

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2015, 01:54:34 AM »
Thinking about it more, the weight of the camera could be a drawback.  Even with my previous Nikons, they were lighter, and when I'm out and about it could be an issue.  I'd hate to miss a shot because I put the camera down to rest.  I've never held a 60d, so I'd have to see if I can check one out.   I never even considered the T5i or even the SL1, but right now the 70d is still in the lead :)

Marsu42, I've been a nerd for many moons :-p

greger

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2015, 03:23:55 AM »
MY wife loves her 70D. I am getting better at using my 7D that  I might be ready for an upgrade. I haven't used the
70D but enjoy the results my wife gets with the 70D. I don't know which camera is better at action and BIF but feel in
The long run you would be happier with the 70D. I think you said you were more interested in Landscape and Portrait.
The weight of the 7D and my 100-400 zoom can get a bit heavy feeling after awhile. The 70D and 70-200 lens is no
Bother but the last time we went out she used her 18-135 IS STM lens that came with her camera. The touch zoom
When looking at pics on the 70D is a feature I want. Good Luck in making your choice. Come back and let us know
What you purchased and how it's working out. I know a guy who bought the 70D and 100-400 Zoom when the 70D
First came out. I have yet to see a pic using AI Servo, but birds flying high in the sky are sharp and blur free. The swivel screen on the 70D is very useful for pics at weird angles.
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Valvebounce

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2015, 07:44:04 AM »
Hi pcdebb.
Anyone worried about camera body weight better get good at stalking their wildlife shots, long glass weighs more than most bodies, 1Dx might outweigh some of the shorter tele lenses. The difference in body weight in the range you are looking seems fairly insignificant to me, get a decent strap that gets the camera off your neck and you won't really notice weight.
Buying the ergonomics that fit your hands best is to me more important than the weight, yes the 7D is a bit heavier than the other cameras but if it fits you get it if it feels wrong in the hand DON'T, you will not enjoy using it so your phone will get more use!
I have large hands, and a rebel range camera is too small to hold comfortably, I have to rest from holding small light cameras but I can hold my 7D for much longer 2-3x longer before strain despite the weight.
I think I would order my selection priorities image quality, ergonomics, weight to select from within budget bodies.

Cheers, Graham.

Thinking about it more, the weight of the camera could be a drawback.  Even with my previous Nikons, they were lighter, and when I'm out and about it could be an issue.  I'd hate to miss a shot because I put the camera down to rest.  I've never held a 60d, so I'd have to see if I can check one out.   I never even considered the T5i or even the SL1, but right now the 70d is still in the lead :)

Marsu42, I've been a nerd for many moons :-p
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FTb-n

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2015, 09:23:02 AM »
Thinking about it more, the weight of the camera could be a drawback.  Even with my previous Nikons, they were lighter, and when I'm out and about it could be an issue.  I'd hate to miss a shot because I put the camera down to rest.  I've never held a 60d, so I'd have to see if I can check one out.   I never even considered the T5i or even the SL1, but right now the 70d is still in the lead :)

Marsu42, I've been a nerd for many moons :-p
My most used camera is a 5D3 with the 70-200 f2.8L IS II.  Together, they weigh about 5 pounds.  I like my 60D, but sometimes it feels too light.  But, this is just me.

If the 70D is in lead and in your price range, don't look back.  I think you will be happier with it than any of the other Rebels or the almost discontinued models (like the 7D and 60D).  The road up from a 70D is the 7D2 or the 6D.  Of these, I'd opt for the 6D.  Despite being full frame, it weighs about the same as the 60D/70D.

The 7D2 is best for action.  The 6D is best for image quality and low light performance.  Full frame is a huge upgrade over crop.  But, if the price of these bodies is out of your range, then the 70D stands out as you next camera.
Main Kit: 1Dx2, 1Dx, 5D3, 70-200 f2.8L IS II, 100-400 f4.5-5.6L IS II, 24-70 f2.8L II, 24-105 f4L IS

Act444

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2015, 10:04:50 AM »
The 7D is a fine camera. Used one to shoot ice shows for a couple years. I utilize both the 5D3 (full frame) and 7D2 now.

I think for what you are describing, I think either a 60D or 70D would be a solid upgrade over what you are currently using. Unlike the above poster, I would not consider a 6D - while the image quality and low light performance are definitely better, there are trade offs - it's more expensive, plus if you have any EF-S lenses you won't be able to mount those on the 6D or any FF camera, and you'll have to invest in new lenses (an added cost which can be substantial). FF sensors tend to offer clearer, sharper images than cropped sensors (especially indoors), but you give up "reach" (i.e., your telephoto lenses will not zoom as far), you have less depth of field (area of focus is smaller for a given aperture). Also, the 6D is not action oriented - the AF is not as sophisticated as on the 70D/7D2.

I think you'll find that the 70D is better suited for everyday, all-purpose shooting on a budget. The 7D2 is the next step up (as previously mentioned) and is the top of the line cropped sensor camera - but I don't know if your budget stretches that far. It is also a bigger, heavier camera and if weight is an issue I wouldn't recommend it anyway.

Also - two new Rebels were announced last month - the T6i and T6s. Similar price range. Have you had a look at those?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2015, 10:46:56 AM by Act444 »

Tinky

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2015, 11:23:29 AM »
The 7D is a great buy just now. 

Although the T3 is newer on paper, it's image sensor is from the older 450D.  Same Digic Generation although the 7D has two of them, plus a dedicated AF processor.

It's a leap on in terms of AF, but not BETTER as such for everybody.  If you are prepared to spend some time with the manual and tweak a bit it can be a very very rewarding camera to use, things like AiServo customisation and Micro Focus Adjust are only worth having if you are going to use them.

For many people the 7D was a backwards step right out of the box, it only really shines if you take the time to set it up properly, and then it really really shines.

Great frame rate, great images up to around 3200, great af, especially with better lenses.

If you shoot sports or action it's a worthwhile upgrade.  The 70D might be a gentler step (all of the good bits of the 7D, better sensor, better processor, less complicated custom settings - I hope this doesn't sound patronising, apologies if it does, just want to hammer the point that the 7D is an enthusiasts camera, not a magic bullet solution to automatically better pics) though not as quite a great deal just now.

The logic of better lenses holds true somewhat.  Brighter glass gets the best out of any AF system, things like USM motors, ring type motors, really speed things up, as does focus limiting etc.   

Outdoors in good light, the kit f3.5-5.6 aperture lenses do really well.  If you start getting a bit more demanding they falter.

I can't say favour lenses or camera until I know a bit more about your circumstances..

I can say the 7D is great camera to use, and once you are in harmony with it, it has the potential to vastly up your keeper rate.
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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2015, 11:23:29 AM »

pcdebb

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #28 on: March 08, 2015, 09:41:32 PM »
Thank you Tinky for your feedback.  One thing I've learned that sometimes it really doesnt matter what camera you have, it's the person behind it.  I may make a decision soon, and I"ll be sure to update you guys.  I'm also looking for some glass and might come to you all for recommendations :)

pcdebb

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 10:37:39 PM »
The person selling me the camera is not a stranger to me.  He's letting me "rent" the camera for a few days.  He had a 70d a week ago but sold it, so I took him up on his offer.  While it's heavier than my T3, I actually like the sturdiness of it.  I really like it.  I have to learn the buttons again as the layout is a little different. 

The only thing I hate is that CF cards are expensive!   Any recommended brands to get and/or stay away from?  Right now I have a Kingston.

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Re: T3 to 7D.....the right thing?
« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2015, 10:37:39 PM »