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Author Topic: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan  (Read 21831 times)

Lee Jay

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2015, 09:23:01 AM »
Could it be that American's in general  have larger hands, and thus would prefer a slightly larger body than the tiny ones being offered?

I have extremely tiny hands, and the 5D/7D series is a perfect fit for me.

The tiny mirrorless cameras can't properly fit the hands of anyone older than 10 years old.

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #15 on: March 11, 2015, 09:23:01 AM »

David Hull

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #16 on: March 11, 2015, 11:17:05 AM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

DxO puts a lot of emphasis on an extremely narrow set of use cases.  If you are not interested in those specific use cases, you can easily ignore DxO without any issues.  If the DxO measured DR perspective is what you are alluding to, then for every step above ISO=100 the DxO perspective becomes less relevant.  Not everyone (by a long shot) shoots everything at ISO=100, tries to lift shadows 4 stops, etc.

ahsanford

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 12:27:58 PM »
I normally don't read these, but I found it interesting:

  • It's very easy for a leader to look like he's not the problem with speed-to-market on the back end of what one could call an epic 12 months for Canon -- many many big-ticket items recently got released or announced:  7D2, 5Ds (x2), 11-24L, 16-35 F/4L IS, 100-400L II, 400 DO, etc.  Regardless of which company's sensors you think are better, Canon has unloaded a ton of higher end gear on us this year and no one recently responded with a similarly high MP FF body -- so Canon still has the spotlight to some degree.  So the chief seems to be taking a victory lap on the product development front, and the 'let's go faster' might read more on his desire to keep up momentum on all the product releases.

  • I agree with those that believe that the chief would never use another company's sensor.  Canon may have done so in the past, and may again on lesser products (superzooms, P&S, etc.), but I think it would never happen again on a pro/higher-end product.  Take all the vociferous fighting in forums over sensors -- where both sides have their strengths -- and then dump the pride that comes at running one of those companies into it.  You'll never convince that person until sales dry up, which has not happened.

  • Surprised to hear the lower ISO limit explanation for the 5Ds rigs vs. the 7D2.  He did not correct the interviewer on his assumption, so he's all but conceded the 5Ds sensors will get the same pixel-level performance as the 7D2.  That should be a field day for the competition, right?

  • As much as we lament for a great mirrorless offering, it's fascinating that he backs the EOS-M3 in North America, yet (1) doesn't know why it isn't being offered there and (2) he knows little about our market.  Does Canon USA develop its own products or something?  Should he not know the wants and needs of the North American market?

  • Flip-flopping on product positions with 4-5 year lifecycles is a loooooot easier than flip-flopping in politics. #megapixels

In general, he was an executive like any other: polished speaking points, a promise of things to come, and not even the slightest air of fallibility.  I wasn't out for blood, mind you.  I don't believe that Canon's ship is sinking or that horrific errors were made in past products -- I'm a happy customer.  But I find interviews where an executive brings his company's his own shortcomings forward with honesty and commitment to improve much more 'human' than some suit who stays on message.

- A

ahsanford

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #18 on: March 11, 2015, 12:39:42 PM »
In your opinion, what kind of mirrorless camera would sell best in the USA?

To be honest I don’t really know - I’m not that close to the US market so I can’t speak from first-hand experience. However I get the feeling that users in the US don’t really take a liking to small cameras. That’s just my sense.

----------------------------------

Could it be that American's in general  have larger hands, and thus would prefer a slightly larger body than the tiny ones being offered?

Might a Leica sized (excuse me, Canonet size) body be more appropriate?  Say with an EF mount?  And an EVF?

That entire passage pissed me off.  Please correct me if I have this wrong, but his organization designs all the products we use, correct?  Canon USA doesn't design and build their own products, right?  So would he not have to interface with his Canon USA counterparts to peg what their needs might be?

So I think he can only offer three believable answers to the USA mirrorless question:

1) Canon USA would rather sell SLRs in USA right now because they better serve their customer's needs (speed, responsiveness, selection of lenses, etc.) at the present.

2) We still need to grow our mirrorless ecosystem (cough: small lenses, integral EVF, DPAF cough cough) before it will look attractive enough to the USA market to consider mirrorless over SLR, which is an already comprehensively supported ecosystem.

3) We make a ton more money on SLRs than we do on mirrorless products.

But the Managing Director and Chief Executive of Image Communication Products Operations should not say "Maybe it's because of your huge hands!" or "Ask Canon USA -- that wasn't my call" implies uncertainty and blame avoidance.  Again, I'm not looking for blood (consider: EOS-M sells well where it is sold) so much as an explanation.

- A

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling it would be really nice if whoever it is who is heading up Canon's lens development program just took over the entire camera division and they dumped off the body/sensor development/chief head/MBA market planning executives. Promoted some techie engineer types to management and brought in some serious photographers/videographers into management as well so it's not just all 100% disconnected MBA types, just mix in a few of the other sort.

It feels like it's just run by MBA types with out much connection to/passion for actually doing photography/video or deep technical connection.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 03:23:45 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

Marauder

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2015, 08:29:55 PM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

DxO puts a lot of emphasis on an extremely narrow set of use cases.  If you are not interested in those specific use cases, you can easily ignore DxO without any issues.  If the DxO measured DR perspective is what you are alluding to, then for every step above ISO=100 the DxO perspective becomes less relevant.  Not everyone (by a long shot) shoots everything at ISO=100, tries to lift shadows 4 stops, etc.

+1!!!
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zlatko

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2015, 09:31:33 PM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

+1.  IQ is the bottom line and the D800/810 brings up shadow detail much better than the 5D M3

Lifting shadow detail is a very small part of IQ.  People who equate IQ with bringing up shadow detail, or see that as the "bottom line" for IQ, will find Canon is lacking.  But Canon's IQ is excellent overall.  I'm reminded of that every time I open a Canon raw file. 

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2015, 09:31:33 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #22 on: March 11, 2015, 10:04:15 PM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

+1.  IQ is the bottom line and the D800/810 brings up shadow detail much better than the 5D M3

Lifting shadow detail is a very small part of IQ.  People who equate IQ with bringing up shadow detail, or see that as the "bottom line" for IQ, will find Canon is lacking.  But Canon's IQ is excellent overall.  I'm reminded of that every time I open a Canon raw file.

Exactly.

17% of my shots are taken at base ISO, and of the roughly 150,000 Canon dSLR shots I've taken, exactly one was in conditions where Canon's base ISO DR was too small to capture the shot.  Unfortunately, calculations indicate that scene had about 30 stops of scene DR so a stop or two extra from a Nikon or Sony would have made no difference.

msm

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2015, 01:56:29 AM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

+1.  IQ is the bottom line and the D800/810 brings up shadow detail much better than the 5D M3

Lifting shadow detail is a very small part of IQ.  People who equate IQ with bringing up shadow detail, or see that as the "bottom line" for IQ, will find Canon is lacking.  But Canon's IQ is excellent overall.  I'm reminded of that every time I open a Canon raw file.

Exactly.

17% of my shots are taken at base ISO, and of the roughly 150,000 Canon dSLR shots I've taken, exactly one was in conditions where Canon's base ISO DR was too small to capture the shot.  Unfortunately, calculations indicate that scene had about 30 stops of scene DR so a stop or two extra from a Nikon or Sony would have made no difference.

And that is precisely what to expect from a Canon shooter who don't understand the benefit of Sony/Nikon sensors. It was true for me as well when I shot Canon, very few shots were at base ISO because there was simply no benefit to it. Iso 640/800 gives about the same IQ but faster shutter speeds with less camera shake. However after getting my a7r probably 80-90% of my the shots taken with that camera are at base ISO.

Lee Jay

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2015, 05:18:28 AM »
Personally, I'm GLAD that Canon is sticking to making their own sensors.  I hope they don't suddenly start worshipping at the altar of DXO Mark the way everyone else is.

The differences in sensor output are easily visible outside of DxO Mark and have been since the release of the D800.

DxO Mark just provides an independent 3rd party measurement of those differences that we can point to and say "See, Canon needs to be better."

DxO is just a messenger. Ignore them if you wish.

+1.  IQ is the bottom line and the D800/810 brings up shadow detail much better than the 5D M3

Lifting shadow detail is a very small part of IQ.  People who equate IQ with bringing up shadow detail, or see that as the "bottom line" for IQ, will find Canon is lacking.  But Canon's IQ is excellent overall.  I'm reminded of that every time I open a Canon raw file.

Exactly.

17% of my shots are taken at base ISO, and of the roughly 150,000 Canon dSLR shots I've taken, exactly one was in conditions where Canon's base ISO DR was too small to capture the shot.  Unfortunately, calculations indicate that scene had about 30 stops of scene DR so a stop or two extra from a Nikon or Sony would have made no difference.

And that is precisely what to expect from a Canon shooter who don't understand the benefit of Sony/Nikon sensors. It was true for me as well when I shot Canon, very few shots were at base ISO because there was simply no benefit to it. Iso 640/800 gives about the same IQ but faster shutter speeds with less camera shake. However after getting my a7r probably 80-90% of my the shots taken with that camera are at base ISO.

Huh?

I don't shoot at base ISO when there's not enough light to shoot at base ISO.  That turns out to be more than 80% of the time for me.

ahsanford

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2015, 01:38:34 PM »
Huh?

I don't shoot at base ISO when there's not enough light to shoot at base ISO.  That turns out to be more than 80% of the time for me.

+1

To back Lee Jay's point, consider:  I am a handheld available light shooter who lives in a ISO 800-6400 world, I have a ton of Canon glass, and I need a working autofocus (so adapting my glass to a Sony is flat out of the question).  So the 5D3 is not only the camera I use, it's the best one out there for me right now.

It's pretty simple to me.  If you are a tripod based ISO 100/200 shooter and your livelihood depends on the quality of your images, go rent a SoNikon and see if it takes better shots for you.  Many landscapers have tried this without selling their glass by using an adapter + liveview on a Sony rig.  I think you'll find it takes lovely shots, but leaving the Canon ecosystem to chase the IQ beast (even for a test run) will have you wincing at non-sensor related pain points, like ergonomics, AF performance, new accessories you need, etc.

- A

zlatko

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2015, 11:54:33 AM »
Huh?

I don't shoot at base ISO when there's not enough light to shoot at base ISO.  That turns out to be more than 80% of the time for me.

+1

To back Lee Jay's point, consider:  I am a handheld available light shooter who lives in a ISO 800-6400 world, I have a ton of Canon glass, and I need a working autofocus (so adapting my glass to a Sony is flat out of the question).  So the 5D3 is not only the camera I use, it's the best one out there for me right now.

It's pretty simple to me.  If you are a tripod based ISO 100/200 shooter and your livelihood depends on the quality of your images, go rent a SoNikon and see if it takes better shots for you.  Many landscapers have tried this without selling their glass by using an adapter + liveview on a Sony rig.  I think you'll find it takes lovely shots, but leaving the Canon ecosystem to chase the IQ beast (even for a test run) will have you wincing at non-sensor related pain points, like ergonomics, AF performance, new accessories you need, etc.

- A

Exactly.  Changing to a Sony/Nikon isn't going to change light conditions for me.  It isn't going to make my subjects slow down so I can freeze them with a slower shutter speed.  It isn't going to make the lights brighter.  I'll still be shooting above base ISO for nearly everything, often far above base ISO.  The problem isn't that I "don't understand the benefit of Sony/Nikon sensors."  I understand fully how *minimal* the benefit is for what I shoot.  And it comes with all of those non-sensor related annoyances (ergonomics, etc.).

msm

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2015, 02:23:01 PM »
It has little to do with light conditions, it has to do with how much light the sensor needs to give the desired or optimal quality and that will differ from sensor to sensor.

Read up on isoless shooting if you don't see why. Generally with exmor you can shoot with lower ISO and you will shoot more at low ISO because there is a benefit in doing so. The argument "I never shoot base ISO so I wouldn't benefit from an exmor sensor" is probably false for the vast majority of shooters.

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2015, 02:23:01 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 02:37:24 PM »
I never shoot base ISO so I wouldn't benefit from an exmor sensor" is probably false for the vast majority of shooters.

Really?

I shoot mostly indoors and those shots are typically ISO 800-6400.  What I shoot outdoors is generally both DOF and shutter speed limited, and I need ISO 200-400 to get those shots.  Shooting those at ISO 100 and underexposing 1-2 stops would work in raw, but be a huge pain in JPEG, and those are nearly 100% JPEGs for reasons of space and buffer depth.

In the last 11 years, 17% of my shots have been taken at ISO 100.  You know how many of those are DR-limited (i.e. shadow noise limited)?  One.  And that one shot needed much more DR than an EXMOR could provide (around 30 stops).

As a test, I shot a crazy high DR scene yesterday.  I had to fabricate one since they mostly don't exist, but ended up shooting a shot with 18 stops of DR using my 7D Mark II.  It's a two-shot burst at 10fps, so the two shots are 1/10th of a second apart.  Worked great!  So, for those crazy situations where I really do need a lot of base ISO DR, I'll do that.  It's simple enough.

msm

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 02:55:13 PM »
I never shoot base ISO so I wouldn't benefit from an exmor sensor" is probably false for the vast majority of shooters.

Really?

I shoot mostly indoors and those shots are typically ISO 800-6400.  What I shoot outdoors is generally both DOF and shutter speed limited, and I need ISO 200-400 to get those shots.  Shooting those at ISO 100 and underexposing 1-2 stops would work in raw, but be a huge pain in JPEG, and those are nearly 100% JPEGs for reasons of space and buffer depth.

Nice of you to speak for the vast majority.

If all you do is shoot indoor with really high ISO then shure, but when you are down to 800 you could just as well shoot 100-400 with an exmor and gain room in the highlights if that is better overall. It is a choice you don't have with Canon.

Quote
In the last 11 years, 17% of my shots have been taken at ISO 100.  You know how many of those are DR-limited (i.e. shadow noise limited)?  One.  And that one shot needed much more DR than an EXMOR could provide (around 30 stops).

So what do you shoot at base ISO then? Because in just normal outdoor shots I can see noise in deep shadows on my monitor from my Canon cameras without even pushing shadows. Either you shoot some rather narrow conditions or you got a high tolerance for noise.

Quote
As a test, I shot a crazy high DR scene yesterday.  I had to fabricate one since they mostly don't exist, but ended up shooting a shot with 18 stops of DR using my 7D Mark II.  It's a two-shot burst at 10fps, so the two shots are 1/10th of a second apart.  Worked great!  So, for those crazy situations where I really do need a lot of base ISO DR, I'll do that.  It's simple enough.

Sure enjoy spending your time in postprocessing when you could have avoided it.

Don't know why you need to mention the 10FPS, when I merge exposures I would like to avoid vibration blur and movement between the frames, and my 1DX even has a electronic first curtain in live view to avoid vibrations. Then when I ask it to bracket shots on a delayed timer it waits for the delay then machine guns all shots in the bracket at 12FPS. Not nice.

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Re: Interview: Masaya Maeda of Canon Japan
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 02:55:13 PM »