July 18, 2018, 08:24:16 PM

Poll

To 4K or not to 4K?

Yes, I need 4K video for what I do (broadcast, cinema, documentaries etc)
18 (12.2%)
Yes, I want to dabble in 4K now that I have the means to do so.
16 (10.8%)
Yes, but only to watch movies and TV in 4K.
14 (9.5%)
Waiting to see what happens with 4K before I decide.
23 (15.5%)
No, 4K-off!
77 (52%)

Total Members Voted: 148

Voting closed: May 11, 2015, 11:53:04 AM

Author Topic: Do you care about 4K?  (Read 61454 times)

pwp

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2491
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2015, 12:22:22 AM »
Absolutely yes. This question is obsolete now.
Like most GH4 shooters, you shoot in 4K and publish in 1080p. The quality difference between downsampled 4K and actually shooting in 1080p is astounding. You simply wouldn't bother to shoot 1080p. 4K quality allows you to crop into your frame, and equally importantly allows you to crop and pan across a frame. Nice!

-pw
But you just stated that you publish in 1080p. What was the point of owning something that shoots 4K if you are showing the video in 1080p?

B e c a u s e  of a quality margin that simply cannot be ignored. The jury is in on this. Try it.

1080p is far from dead as a currently appropriate delivery means. Hardware, software and bandwidth all need to catch up and that process is well under way right across the planet. Shooting 4K also future proofs your work to some extent. Here's a very rough analogy. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in JPEG only. He weeps. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in RAW. He breaths a sigh of relief, re-processes the image and delivers a quality file to his client. The concept is not hard to grasp.

-pw
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 12:24:24 AM by pwp »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2015, 12:22:22 AM »

gsealy

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 333
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2015, 12:37:02 AM »
Absolutely yes. This question is obsolete now.
Like most GH4 shooters, you shoot in 4K and publish in 1080p. The quality difference between downsampled 4K and actually shooting in 1080p is astounding. You simply wouldn't bother to shoot 1080p. 4K quality allows you to crop into your frame, and equally importantly allows you to crop and pan across a frame. Nice!

-pw
But you just stated that you publish in 1080p. What was the point of owning something that shoots 4K if you are showing the video in 1080p?

B e c a u s e  of a quality margin that simply cannot be ignored. The jury is in on this. Try it.

1080p is far from dead as a currently appropriate delivery means. Hardware, software and bandwidth all need to catch up and that process is well under way right across the planet. Shooting 4K also future proofs your work to some extent. Here's a very rough analogy. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in JPEG only. He weeps. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in RAW. He breaths a sigh of relief, re-processes the image and delivers a quality file to his client. The concept is not hard to grasp.

-pw

I've heard the 'future proofing' concept many times previously.  For my work I don't feel it has much merit.  If there is any time lag of significance, then I would shoot something fresh.  Goals, context, and situations change quickly. 

expatinasia

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1696
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2015, 02:09:51 AM »
I've heard the 'future proofing' concept many times previously.  For my work I don't feel it has much merit.  If there is any time lag of significance, then I would shoot something fresh. Goals, context, and situations change quickly.

That's not always possible though is it! Sometimes flights are needed to get to the client, and the client may not want you to reshoot if no changes have been made other than the hardware you are using. Are you going to do it for free?!!

Future proofing is real. I remember when people used to ask why I shoot in 1080 and not in a lesser format. I also still have 32MB CF Cards in my drawer, yet my camera today has two 64GB 1066X Cards. Most of the components in my laptop can be upgraded. All this is about future proofing.
1D X + backup + different L lenses etc.

sanj

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 3063
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2015, 02:11:08 AM »
Absolutely yes. This question is obsolete now.
Like most GH4 shooters, you shoot in 4K and publish in 1080p. The quality difference between downsampled 4K and actually shooting in 1080p is astounding. You simply wouldn't bother to shoot 1080p. 4K quality allows you to crop into your frame, and equally importantly allows you to crop and pan across a frame. Nice!

-pw
But you just stated that you publish in 1080p. What was the point of owning something that shoots 4K if you are showing the video in 1080p?

B e c a u s e  of a quality margin that simply cannot be ignored. The jury is in on this. Try it.

1080p is far from dead as a currently appropriate delivery means. Hardware, software and bandwidth all need to catch up and that process is well under way right across the planet. Shooting 4K also future proofs your work to some extent. Here's a very rough analogy. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in JPEG only. He weeps. A photographer pulls out an archive image and realizes he had shot it in RAW. He breaths a sigh of relief, re-processes the image and delivers a quality file to his client. The concept is not hard to grasp.

-pw

I've heard the 'future proofing' concept many times previously.  For my work I don't feel it has much merit.  If there is any time lag of significance, then I would shoot something fresh.  Goals, context, and situations change quickly.

Perhaps for your work it does not apply. For many many it does: Documentary makers, Marriage shooters, Personal event shooters etc etc.

pwp

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2491
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2015, 02:42:28 AM »
I've heard the 'future proofing' concept many times previously.  For my work I don't feel it has much merit.  If there is any time lag of significance, then I would shoot something fresh.  Goals, context, and situations change quickly.

True, goals, context and situations do change quickly, but not necessarily towards irrelevance. A given image or video's relevance and currency can go from zero to hero overnight. Say I shoot an interview and mini doco of a reasonably prominent artist which is planned for 2-3 minutes web publication. Fast forward a few years and the artist either catapults to global prominence or (hopefully not) passes away. That archive of 4K material will become gold.

-pw

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ***************
  • Posts: 22828
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2015, 07:13:21 AM »
Absolutely yes. This question is obsolete now.

Indeed, that's been effectively demonstrated by the responses to the poll above.  ;)
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

lintoni

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 517
  • Good grief!
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2015, 08:07:14 AM »
Just me, but never have and never will shoot video.
Me also!!, tired of all the video talk!! Blaaaaahhhhh!

The clue was in the thread title.  why even butt in?

I don't do BiF or Weddings.  Do I moan about Tracking AF or portrait profiles?   Naah.  I just don't use them and get onwith tne bitsI need / enjoy.
I do agree with your sentiments here... but... I'm really surprised by how many have voted and shown antipathy to the whole 4K debate, especially considering that the poll is in the "EOS Bodies - For Video" part of the forum. I have no interest in video, and I'm pretty sure that this is my first post in these parts. 
EOS 5D III, EOS 5, EOS 30, EF17-40L, EF24-105L, EF100-400L, EF100 f/2.8 macro, Samyang 14 f/2.8, Ʃ50 f/1.4 Art, 550EX, Magic Lantern

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2015, 08:07:14 AM »

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2944
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2015, 09:27:29 AM »
I have 4k on my phone... but I never use it.  I don't need more quality in my videos... because my videos are mediocre at best. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

Ruined

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 796
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2015, 09:28:25 AM »
If you need help selling a 4K recording, pull out a VHS tape and see how good it looks on your 60" HDTV.  In 10 years, HD will look the same - antiquated, low quality.  We capture once in a lifetime events, generally speaking, I want to offer my clients the very best possible currently.  Otherwise, might as well get out the 8mm camcorder.


This is a poor analogy due to the diminishing returns of 4K vs average display size.  4K requires around 120" screen to start really noticing a difference over 1080p from normal seating distance (source: Joe Kane), which is over double the average display size end users have.  Technology has evolved a lot but eventually displays just get too big for a living space, and for 99.9% of people 120" will be too big.

About the only good argument for 4K video is if you are going to crop a lot, as it will allow you to do a significant crop while retaining acceptable pixel density.  It can also be used as a marketing tool to differentiate yourself from your competition, but it is not something the end user will significantly benefit from.

For the vast majority of end users, though, there will be no noticeable difference between 4k and 1080p.  An analogy to the audio world: 4k is like DVD-Audio and SACD - technically better than standard CD, but differences that are not audible.  24bit/96khz may be useful to the producer, but for the end user anything more than 16bit/44.1khz is a waste.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 09:34:01 AM by Ruined »

jdramirez

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • ********
  • Posts: 2944
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2015, 09:31:27 AM »
If you need help selling a 4K recording, pull out a VHS tape and see how good it looks on your 60" HDTV.  In 10 years, HD will look the same - antiquated, low quality.  We capture once in a lifetime events, generally speaking, I want to offer my clients the very best possible currently.  Otherwise, might as well get out the 8mm camcorder.


This is a poor analogy.  4K requires around 120" TV/projector to start noticing a difference over 1080p from normal seating distance.  Technology has evolved a lot but that is not going to change how big of a TV is comfortable for someone in their living room in 10 yrs. 

About the only good argument for 4K video is if you are going to crop a lot.  For the end user, there will be no noticeable difference between 4k and 1080p.

I have a 133" projection screen setup in my living room... well, one of my living rooms.  It is really nice... but the projector is only 720p... so I don't see any benefit with upgrading to 4k until there is more end user content. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

Antono Refa

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 593
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2015, 10:56:34 AM »
I like to shoot video occasionally, but nobody in my family has a 4K TV. Even if my camera had 4K video, I would still set it to FHD.

Roo

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 788
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2015, 11:00:26 AM »
I appreciate that some people would like 4k capability but I have zero interest in shooting video.
1Dxii, 5Div, GoPro Hero 4, DJI Phantom 3, Canon 16-35 f4L, Canon 24-70 f2.8L II, Canon 24-105 f4L, Canon 70-200 f2.8L is II, Canon 50 f1.8 STM, Canon 100 f2.8L, Canon 200-400 f4L, Samyang 14 2.8, 2x Extender III, Yongnuo YN-E3-RT, Yongnuo YN600EX-RT (x3)

andrewflo

  • EOS M5
  • ****
  • Posts: 195
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2015, 01:14:12 PM »
Mainly want 4K for 1080p deliver that is superbly sharp. Also would make shooting interviews easier as they could be done with 1 camera in a pinch instead of 2.
6D | 70-200L II | 16-35 ƒ/4L | 100L | TAMRON 24-70 | SIGMA 15 Fisheye | EOS M3 | EF-M 22 | EF-M 18-55

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2015, 01:14:12 PM »

mkabi

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 505
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2015, 02:12:24 PM »
This is to answer the original question.
Do you care about 4K?
Not particularly, but like most people here have said, if I was to buy a camera now, I'd rather be prepared then be left behind. Some people have embraced it, but most still are not convinced.

I've said this plenty of times, as have so many people here...
You can't see the difference between a 1080p & 4K TV after about 6 to 8 feet away (on 50 inch, 60 inch TVs).
So, this so called "better 1080p" from 4K doesn't matter about 6 to 8 feet away. Most people will lie that they can see the difference about 6 to 8 feet away on a 50 to 60 inch TV, I don't know why... and same can be said with 720p (but thats much further like 10 to 12 feet away) and so on and so forth.

Not enough 4K content, TV cable is still broadcasting in 720p & 1080i still... their so called HD channels is still 720p. No 4K discs or 4K players at the local bestbuy, only 4K TVs and may be a 4K camera...

Nothing other than a computer plays 4K... you can't record it on disc and play it on a 4K player (cause no such thing exists)... so you basically have to connect your computer to the TV.

Then there is the storage problem... how much 4K can you store?
One project takes about 320Gb to 500Gb for me (normal 1080p - h.264), then redundancy makes it about 1.5Tb.
Not to mention the conversion from h.264 to ProRes, so I can only imagine h.265 conversion to ProRes (mind you that there isn't anything current that will edit h.265). Gh4 and NX1 users enlighten us, how big do the files get from ProRes Coversion. Lets just ask for a 1 min. video.
Everyone will argue that storage is getting cheaper... whatever... if you want 4K now, better have cheap storage now. You know how much a 2Tb SSD cost??? Look it up and get back to me... cheap???

But again, if I was to buy a camera now... I dont want to be left behind... just in case it is adopted by the masses in the next couple of years.
Bah...

9VIII

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1843
Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2015, 03:19:23 PM »
First off, to add to the speculation about the future of 4K, I suspect that 4K is going to be the "Standard Definition" of the future, very, very long term.
Before the 90's display technology moved in generational steps, then we had a burst of new technology and now we're back to the slower pace again, except this time I don't see a lot of room for improvement beyond top quality 8K and 4K content. 10bit colour will be great but that's (theoretically) already in the spec for 4K, all we need now is better hardware, the signal doesn't need to change.
I've read that 8K is basically equivalent to IMAX, so I still want that for premium multimedia content, but everything else should be standardized to 4K.

Am I ready to use 4K? Not for daily content consumption, I can't use anything more than the lowest quality available simply due to archaic bandwidth restrictions, so I wouldn't want to record any higher than 1280x720 either. I want everything at 60fps as well.

4K games and movies? Definitely yes.
4K home video? Probably not for another 5-10 years.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Do you care about 4K?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2015, 03:19:23 PM »