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Author Topic: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors  (Read 8544 times)

92101media

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2012, 04:51:17 PM »
From http://mashable.com/2012/01/17/sopa-dangerous-opinion/:

"This means that YouTube, Facebook, Wikipedia, Gmail, Dropbox and millions of other sites would be “Internet sites…dedicated to theft of U.S. property,” under SOPA’s definition. Simply providing a feature that would make it possible for someone to commit copyright infringement or circumvention (see: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0) is enough to get your entire site branded as an infringing site."

I am sure Canon Rumors fits that definition too.

Something to ponder for those not strongly opposed to SOPA.

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2012, 04:51:17 PM »

sanyasi

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2012, 05:28:01 PM »
The U.S. will be at a huge competitive disadvantage because of SOPA?  No. We already are at a huge competitive disadvantage without it.  We produce the content that others want to steal.  I don't visit pirate sites, but I suspect that there are few sites in the U.S. that are serving up Romanian movies and music.

The RIAA and MPAA rule the majority?  No.  We have private property rights in this country.  Because the majority wants something doesn't mean they can just take it.  The RIAA and the MPAA have every right to lobby.  If you don't think Google and Comcast are putting big bucks into furthering their interests, you are wrong.

One of the articles sited for support says that copyright infringement is ridiculously easy to prove.  Fair use may not always be clear, but much of the commentary in blogs and elsewhere online is clearly fair use.  All of you who worry about stifling free speech forget the many Supreme Court decisions that give the First Amendment priority over the interests of copyright and trademark holders. The language in SOPA is not going to be interpreted in a vacuum.

What I see here is a bunch of talking points that have been circulated by people funded by large corporations who have an indirect stake in piracy.  Tell me how SOPA is going to stifle your expression, innovation, and speech, not Google's.  The big boys and girls are more than capable of protecting themselves.

Finally, it really doesn't matter if SOPA fails this time.  The cat is out of the bag and regulation is coming to the Internet.  The people with the content are finally speaking up and saying we've had enough.

wickidwombat

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2012, 05:46:44 PM »
This is quite pathetic for what is supposed to be a government running a "FREE" country. Most other western countries wont be far behind I am sure.
I have lived and worked all over the world and increasingly in recent times I find that while China as well as other developing nations are embracing a free market, the western nations / developed nations are moving into a system I like to call the Fascist Beaurocracy that is it doesnt matter which person or party you vote for with your token democratic right stupid rules laws and a desire to inflict control over the population is pushed down from an excess of public servants that are trying to justify their existance. China censors their internet very heavily and political control is still very strong however they are moving rapidly. I have never felt more free, more safe and more respected as a human being in my life than when i was living in China. The west could learn alot from this culture.
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Ryusui

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #33 on: January 18, 2012, 05:49:44 PM »
The RIAA and MPAA rule the majority?  No.  We have private property rights in this country.  Because the majority wants something doesn't mean they can just take it.
You continually equate people who oppose SOPA to people who want free digital media.  What is it about "we are happy to support the cessation of piracy but oppose the way it's being proposed" that's hard for you to understand?
No one here wants to just take something.  We don't want something taken from us.

Quote
What I see here is a bunch of talking points that have been circulated by people funded by large corporations who have an indirect stake in piracy.  Tell me how SOPA is going to stifle your expression, innovation, and speech, not Google's.  The big boys and girls are more than capable of protecting themselves.
I have seen several "non-big boys/girls" examples in this thread.  If you choose to ignore them, not much else can be done, can it?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 05:52:35 PM by Ryusui »

Minnesota Nice

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2012, 07:21:53 PM »
Even though SOPA and PIPA are bad and I'm really against them.  I'm not concerned, there is so much support for not passing it that they just can't do it, not to mention the massive infringement on constitutional rights.  Scary thing though, image the internet if SOPA and PIPA were to pass.

elflord

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #35 on: January 18, 2012, 07:26:04 PM »
All of you who worry about stifling free speech forget the many Supreme Court decisions that give the First Amendment priority over the interests of copyright and trademark holders. The language in SOPA is not going to be interpreted in a vacuum.

Are you arguing that it's OK to pass laws that violate our constitutional rights, because the supreme court will strike them down ? It's true that the supreme court has some authority to defend our rights, but that is not a justification for the legislative branch infringing on them.

Quote
What I see here is a bunch of talking points that have been circulated by people funded by large corporations who have an indirect stake in piracy.  Tell me how SOPA is going to stifle your expression, innovation, and speech, not Google's.  The big boys and girls are more than capable of protecting themselves.

At best, it makes life very inconvenient, because it could potentially take down websites that I find useful (flickr, linux distributors, google)   At least in the case of flickr, it quite clearly would be stifling my activity.

elflord

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2012, 07:37:10 PM »
Sorry folks:  It is easy to come out against SOPA, but I still haven't seen an alternative solution proposed in this thread.  And I don't doubt anyone who says they don't steal content, but there are lot of regular folks who know exactly what they are doing when they go these pirate sites and download music and movies.

Not mine or anyone else's responsibility to find a "solution" to the problem of extracting compensation in return for distributing creative works. This is a business problem, and the industry lobby are hoping to use censorship to make it go away instead of developing solutions.

Rights are trumps, and in particular, my right to free speech trumps your desire to make money using a particular business model. There is no such thing as the right to profit from a particular business model, and neither the government, nor other parties have any obligation to intervene on your behalf for the purpose of making your business plan profitable.

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2012, 07:37:10 PM »

VerbalAlchemy

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #37 on: January 18, 2012, 07:42:55 PM »
The RIAA and MPAA rule the majority?  No.  We have private property rights in this country.  Because the majority wants something doesn't mean they can just take it.
You continually equate people who oppose SOPA to people who want free digital media.  What is it about "we are happy to support the cessation of piracy but oppose the way it's being proposed" that's hard for you to understand?
No one here wants to just take something.  We don't want something taken from us.

Quote
What I see here is a bunch of talking points that have been circulated by people funded by large corporations who have an indirect stake in piracy.  Tell me how SOPA is going to stifle your expression, innovation, and speech, not Google's.  The big boys and girls are more than capable of protecting themselves.
I have seen several "non-big boys/girls" examples in this thread.  If you choose to ignore them, not much else can be done, can it?

I concur. There seems to be a lot of binary thinking: Support SOPA vs. Support Piracy.

I think most people who oppose SOPA opposed the implementation, not the stated goal. It is undeniable that content creators should see their work protected, just as someone who manufacturers a physical product (like a Canon 1DX) shouldn't be expected to just give that product away (unless Canon ones to give one to me). The problem with SOPA is that it establishes vague legal language that make little effort to protect individual freedoms or the Internet's generally unregulated dynamic. Rather, the imprecise scope seems to instead encourage the legal system to settle all scores. This would mean that some questionable legal action might extend for a while before matters are settled. It also means that some bizarre and creative legal precedents can be conjured out of the bill's more obtuse language. In this case, any questionable use of the law might not be something a court could easily overturn; the court might conclude that the action was within the vague confines of the law and that the questionable use can therefore only be overturned by a subsequent revision to the law. This would require mass action by Congress, which is easier said than done, and... This legal web can get pretty convoluted and contributes to a number of issues that are currently hotly contested, from the scope of Executive Power to the ramifications of Citizens United decision.

Because of this complexity, I think many of us want legislation that clearly articulates the intent and scope of the law. Even if no one in Congress intends to abuse a law's more extreme powers, we have to question whether those powers should be pre-emptively extended just to combat a potential worst case scenario. In some cases, the answer might be "yes," as getting caught unprepared in the midst of a disaster could threaten continuity of government, the stability of the market, etc. In other cases, however, it makes more sense to be cautious about the execution of legislation. President Obama has recently negotiated with Congress on sanctions related to Iran. While some have argued that his behavior betrays a soft attitude toward international affairs, others - including the President himself - have argued that he is being justly strategic, that his decision is not a matter of the target but of the optimal approach. I think this reasoning - whatever you think of U.S. international policy, which is a separate issue that I invoke only for its parallel logic - applies to SOPA as well.

Piracy in many forms needs to be eradicated. If media producers are unable to protect their products, the situation will not only be unfair, but also, given how much work the media industry feeds tangential industries, economically significant. That piracy needs to be addressed is not in serious dispute. Nevertheless, we mustn't rush into a solution just for the sake of action. We can't tie up debate in committees forever either-- but we need to pass a law that makes sense, not one that "sort o"f addresses the problem while causing ancillary damage that either erodes individual rights or must be slowly repaired in an endless bureaucratic process. SOPA opposition isn't necessarily an ideological extreme; it can also represent a shared goal coupled to a disagreement over tactics.

Maui5150

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2012, 07:50:27 PM »
As for concerns about blogs being taken down because they link to a newspaper article or are critical of a product, just not an issue.  Fair use protects will protect those sort of references.  Law ultimately reflects social norms and courts take those norms into account when interpreting words in legislation.  Fair use is not going any place.
I suggest you do your homework.  There is a very well known company that already aggressively sues the hell out of website owners, bloggers, and the like for linking to their newspapers or owned properties.  I suggest you research Righthaven LLC

Also know that many companies engage in hostile legal practices.  They may lose, they may know from the beginning that they have no case, but they have deep pockets, team of lawyers, and especially when a corporation takes on a small website, etc. it often comes down to pay up and settle, or can you afford to spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to finally prevail.  A website I used to frequent was one of Fairhaven's victims.

As far as "the courts" deciding... That is the sign of POOR LEGISLATION.  Abuse is rampant with bad legislation.  The Patriot Act for example, has been used to side step the law to go after Pizza joints, strip clubs, etc.  99% of "Patriot Act" usage is actually used in domestic non-terrorist cases. 



Ryusui

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2012, 08:02:21 PM »
SOPA opposition isn't necessarily an ideological extreme; it can also represent a shared goal coupled to a disagreement over tactics.
There.  That's it, completely.

funkboy

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2012, 09:03:21 PM »
Even though SOPA and PIPA are bad and I'm really against them.  I'm not concerned, there is so much support for not passing it that they just can't do it, not to mention the massive infringement on constitutional rights.  Scary thing though, image the internet if SOPA and PIPA were to pass.

Do not fool yourself into thinking that the Constitution will protect free speech and the right to privacy from the ability of Corporate America to buy legislation.  If that were the case, then we wouldn't already have the DMCA, PATRIOT, retroactive telecom immunity from warrantless wiretapping lawsuits, etc etc etc.

Public momentum against this will have to be an order of magnitude stronger than it is now in order for your vision to become reality.  At the moment the best we can hope for is a Presidential veto.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2012, 09:05:36 PM by funkboy »

Orangutan

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2012, 10:29:09 PM »
I'm sure I'm not the only "computer guy" on this web site, but wanted to chime in with my professional opinion.  I've done a variety of computer-related work, from programming to network security, all of which goes into this.

First,  I will leave to others the description of exactly what offenses SOPA would permit.


My opinion: Laws such as SOPA won't achieve their desired effect.  Furthermore, their "collateral damage" will cause people to feel angry with copyright holders and will diminish their regard for intellectual property.  Large-scale copyright violators will have the means and the incentive to find a way around constraints using, for example, encryption or obfuscation schemes.  My grandfather was fond of the saying "locks are to keep honest people honest."  We need to encourage honest people to remain honest by not treating them, a priori, as criminals.  There will always be some copyright violators, and we will never stamp them out short of creating a police state.  There is no simple solution to this problem, and legislation such as this will not solve it, it will only give the criminals strong and immediate incentive to build better methods of evasion, while trampling on the freedoms of ordinary people.

Minnesota Nice

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2012, 10:59:12 PM »
I'm sure I'm not the only "computer guy" on this web site, but wanted to chime in with my professional opinion.  I've done a variety of computer-related work, from programming to network security, all of which goes into this.

First,  I will leave to others the description of exactly what offenses SOPA would permit.


My opinion: Laws such as SOPA won't achieve their desired effect.  Furthermore, their "collateral damage" will cause people to feel angry with copyright holders and will diminish their regard for intellectual property.  Large-scale copyright violators will have the means and the incentive to find a way around constraints using, for example, encryption or obfuscation schemes.  My grandfather was fond of the saying "locks are to keep honest people honest."  We need to encourage honest people to remain honest by not treating them, a priori, as criminals.  There will always be some copyright violators, and we will never stamp them out short of creating a police state.  There is no simple solution to this problem, and legislation such as this will not solve it, it will only give the criminals strong and immediate incentive to build better methods of evasion, while trampling on the freedoms of ordinary people.

I like your opinion, a lot.

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2012, 10:59:12 PM »

wickidwombat

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2012, 11:06:32 PM »
Fundamentally Piracy in the digital domain was born because of the price fixing and price gouging the media companies have monopolised for decades.

the cost of production and distribution has fallen significantly yet they still price new movies and music at a certain level. This level is high enough to provide an incentive for people to look for ways around it.

There will always be a degree of copyright infringment everyone has to accept this as fact.
how much is determined by the price.

There is a threshold where if the content is priced low enough it provides a natual disincentive for people to bother with copyright infringement and you could draw a direct correlation between price vs copyright infringement. If providers priced their products more competatively then it would provide several distinct benefits to them and the government and global economy as a whole

1) They would increase sales volume - as price decreases the number of people that were trying to get it for free would no longer bother due to the lower costs, as they can just pop down to their local store and buy it on disc or download it from a purchased online source.

2) They would not need to spend the insane amount of resources on lawyers and chasing individuals for copyright infringement. I am sure just cutting the lawyers from this epic gravy train would fund some significant RRP cost cuts.

3) the governement could spend more time on real issues and probably get rid of some excess public servants saving the tax payers money.

4) Money and resources would no longer need to be wasted on DRM (digital right managment) because lets face it hackers take all of 5 seconds to get around this stuff.

5) people would be happier and more productive because the government would be meddeling and trying to micro-manage their individual lives to a lesser degree.

So in summary 1 simple action can cut piracy down to such small levels it would be hardly worth being worried about. Set the right price and let the free market run!

I will use the Apple app store as an example
while this gets a lot of flak for monopolistic behaviour and the walled garden approach it is successful because of the pricing. If you wanted to say purchase a computer game for your PC you have to pay say $50 - $100 of course people are going to look for ways of not paying this. however on the app store to buy a game for you phone costs say $1, $2 maybe $5 at these prices why would you even bother wasting your time trying to get it for free just buy it and enjoy it. This difference is orders of magnitude.

If media of games, albums and movies were priced the same (and they got rid of this DRM rubbish) 95% or more of people would just buy it.

Big media need to have a look at the business model they have run with for too long in the face of a rapidly changing world. It is such a simple concept these greed driven corporations dont see the wood for the trees

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D.Sim

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2012, 05:27:47 AM »
Who cares!
2 posts, one of which is the above, and you have (at the time of this post) -25 karma. Apparently people do care.


That said... I missed it. =(
I'm guessing something along the lines of CR blacking out as well, which could have been done longer if anything.

I'm considering blacking out my own tumblr account for a bit - anyone know how I can link to the link all the blackouts are using?

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Re: a thank you letter to Canon Rumors
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2012, 05:27:47 AM »