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Author Topic: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage  (Read 9558 times)

niels123

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Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« on: February 15, 2016, 02:21:29 AM »
Occasionally, I photograph a wedding or other formal ceremony. Until now, I didn't have a contract and I just did all the communication via email. Recently, I had several bad experiences: clients violating agreements and refusing to pay  :(

This made me think to set up terms&conditions. Suddenly, I was asked to photograph a ceremony in seven days. Since I didn't have anything and wanted to be more 'strict' I made some clear terms&conditions and now my client complainds about two of these 'rules':

1) I wanted to put a small watermark of my homepage in the bottom right corner of my photos. I would then supply the client with two copies of each photo: full-res without watermark and about 1000px with small watermark for facebook etc.

2) I asked permission to use the photos for promotional activities (i.e. in my portfolio). He wants to give explicit written permission for each photo before I can use it.

3) If you do supply all the photos without any whatermark, is it then fair to request that the photographer is mentioned when photos are published by the client?

It is common practice for photographers to ask for permission in a contract so the photographer can use whatever he likes on his website(s)? What do you think of it?
What is you opinion on watermarks? Obviously, gray, small and only in the bottom and about 30% opacity, not large black or white text.

Here's an example:

« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 12:24:54 PM by niels123 »

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Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« on: February 15, 2016, 02:21:29 AM »

LDS

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2016, 04:55:43 AM »
About your first point, think about why you need a model release form even when you actually pay the model. I agree that any image you would like to use for your portofolio, or any other commercial use, needs an explicit consent by the people portrayed. Asking the customer to agree on a full non-exclusive right for his or her own photos may be a bit too much.

I'm not sure, but photos taken in some private location may also need a property release form to be used for commercial reasons beyond the event they were paid for, including promoting your business.

mrzero

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2016, 11:07:09 AM »
That watermark could be cropped off in about 30 seconds, in a batch process run on every file you handed over.  What I see on facebook, either the watermark is more prominent and central (so it can't be cropped off), or the photographer puts up the album on his or her account and shares it with the client.  To me, that is better promotion because it spotlights and links the photog right in the post, and gives the viewer one-click access to you.  Nobody is going to bother to memorize your website link, close the facebook app, open up a browser, remember and then type in your link.  However, they might click on your facebook link and like your page so they can come back to it later.  Plus, that gives you a direct connection with the client, and has to make it more likely they will seek you out for repeat business (from wedding photos, to new baby photos, to family photos, to prom photos, etc...).
Canon 6d, t1i, 16-35/4LIS, 24-70/4L, 20/2.8, 28/1.8, 35/1.4L, 40/2.8, 50/1.8II, 100/2.8 macro, 70-200/4LIS, 70-300/4-5.6IS, g1x, 430exII, 90ex
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niels123

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2016, 12:23:33 PM »
That watermark could be cropped off in about 30 seconds, in a batch process run on every file you handed over.  What I see on facebook, either the watermark is more prominent and central (so it can't be cropped off), or the photographer puts up the album on his or her account and shares it with the client.  To me, that is better promotion because it spotlights and links the photog right in the post, and gives the viewer one-click access to you.  Nobody is going to bother to memorize your website link, close the facebook app, open up a browser, remember and then type in your link.  However, they might click on your facebook link and like your page so they can come back to it later.  Plus, that gives you a direct connection with the client, and has to make it more likely they will seek you out for repeat business (from wedding photos, to new baby photos, to family photos, to prom photos, etc...).

You mean that the photographer creats a separate album for each shoot or client on his own facebook account, puts all the photos on this album and then shares the link to this (public?) album with his client(s)?

This raises two questions:
First: what if the client doesn't want the photos to be public or if only part of the photos would have been shared by the client?
Second: One may have hundreds of wedding photos from a single wedding. In terms of business promotion, it is more effective to only show a small selection of the very best photos. How do you consider to deal with that?

mrzero

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2016, 02:08:33 PM »
You mean that the photographer creats a separate album for each shoot or client on his own facebook account, puts all the photos on this album and then shares the link to this (public?) album with his client(s)?

This raises two questions:
First: what if the client doesn't want the photos to be public or if only part of the photos would have been shared by the client?
Second: One may have hundreds of wedding photos from a single wedding. In terms of business promotion, it is more effective to only show a small selection of the very best photos. How do you consider to deal with that?

Yes, that is what I see frequently happening.  I assume that these albums are a small sample of all the photos taken, but I'm not clicking through very many of them.  I also assume that this is something the client and photog discuss ahead of time.  I think this generally happens pretty quickly after the event.  At my age, it is fewer weddings and more baby and kid portraits, to be honest. 
Canon 6d, t1i, 16-35/4LIS, 24-70/4L, 20/2.8, 28/1.8, 35/1.4L, 40/2.8, 50/1.8II, 100/2.8 macro, 70-200/4LIS, 70-300/4-5.6IS, g1x, 430exII, 90ex
Elan 7N with 28-105/3.5-4.5II, Rebel G with 35-70/3.5-4.5, A-1 with 28/2.8, 50/1.8, and 135/3.5

niels123

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2016, 02:20:14 PM »
You mean that the photographer creats a separate album for each shoot or client on his own facebook account, puts all the photos on this album and then shares the link to this (public?) album with his client(s)?

This raises two questions:
First: what if the client doesn't want the photos to be public or if only part of the photos would have been shared by the client?
Second: One may have hundreds of wedding photos from a single wedding. In terms of business promotion, it is more effective to only show a small selection of the very best photos. How do you consider to deal with that?

Yes, that is what I see frequently happening.  I assume that these albums are a small sample of all the photos taken, but I'm not clicking through very many of them.  I also assume that this is something the client and photog discuss ahead of time.  I think this generally happens pretty quickly after the event.  At my age, it is fewer weddings and more baby and kid portraits, to be honest.

Usually, the client is given lots of photos and he or she decides himself which ones will be put online. It could be an option to suggest to give me a selection which I will put in an album and then share. However, I do feel it feels a bit 'limited' for the client because they probably want the freedom of putting the photos online themselves.

cpsico

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 03:35:10 PM »
Occasionally, I photograph a wedding or other formal ceremony. Until now, I didn't have a contract and I just did all the communication via email. Recently, I had several bad experiences: clients violating agreements and refusing to pay  :(

This made me think to set up terms&conditions. Suddenly, I was asked to photograph a ceremony in seven days. Since I didn't have anything and wanted to be more 'strict' I made some clear terms&conditions and now my client complainds about two of these 'rules':

1) I wanted to put a small watermark of my homepage in the bottom right corner of my photos. I would then supply the client with two copies of each photo: full-res without watermark and about 1000px with small watermark for facebook etc.

2) I asked permission to use the photos for promotional activities (i.e. in my portfolio). He wants to give explicit written permission for each photo before I can use it.

3) If you do supply all the photos without any whatermark, is it then fair to request that the photographer is mentioned when photos are published by the client?

It is common practice for photographers to ask for permission in a contract so the photographer can use whatever he likes on his website(s)? What do you think of it?
What is you opinion on watermarks? Obviously, gray, small and only in the bottom and about 30% opacity, not large black or white text.

Here's an example:


I would be very leary of a client that needs a photographer a week before the event.You may have a problem client no one wants. I wouldn't stress on getting photo releases for this wedding, save that hassle for one that you are going to be able to plan the event a little better. This may not be the event to implement these new rules. This seems like a quick in quick out deal.

If this client doesn't want there pictures online i would say respect their wishes, while this client may not have time to get another photographer others will, so be flexible for your future clients. If they like your work they will refer people to you.

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Re: Embed small watermark in "internet versions"? + Portfolio usage
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2016, 03:35:10 PM »