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Author Topic: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H  (Read 27701 times)

Gothmoth

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 10:37:34 AM »
Whether the 7D mk II should be ASP-C or ASP-H has been hotly debated on this forum for months now; it has gotten me probably 35/40 of my smites, and generated pages and pages on the threads.

As I have said many times, the 7D is what it is precisely because it is a high MP crop sensor camera at an affordable price. Not everyone can afford a 1DIV, and not everyone would want one even if they can afford it. The ASP-H sensor loses a little reach, and has no lenses as wide as either fullframe or ASP-C. I do not want an ASP-H 7D, nor do many people here.

what is ASP?    ;)

i get often ask if there is a cheaper APS-H model. 

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2012, 10:37:34 AM »

EYEONE

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2012, 10:52:31 AM »


what is ASP?    ;)


Haha, you know, I constantly forget if it's ASP or APS. I guess I have mild dyslexia. I have to look it up before I type a message. :) 
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unfocused

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2012, 11:12:01 AM »
Quote
canon said it will not abandon the APS-H sensor format.

I'd like to see that statement. All I am aware of are some vague statements about keeping their options open and similar non-denial denials.

Here's the thing: Canon only made one model with APS-H. Canon never spent a penny on designing a single lens for APS-H. No other manufacturer offers APS-H.

The one thing Canon was very clear about was that the 1Dx would replace both the 1D and 1Ds. The 1D was their newest high-end body at the time and they had no reason to announce it's demise if they had any thought of retaining the format. But they made a conscious choice to declare the 1Dx as the replacement for both bodies.

APS-H is the Betamax of sensors. The technology may be superior, but the market didn't support it.

I think Canon was only too glad to come up with an excuse to abandon it. And, of course, they aren't going to alienate APS-H fans by an outright declaration that it's dead and they probably are truly keeping their options open. I would put the chances of a new APS-H camera just slightly greater than the chance of finding Bigfoot riding a unicorn.
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Gothmoth

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2012, 11:19:01 AM »
Quote
Canon has already stated that they do not intend to drop the APS-H format sensor, what somehow is contrary to general assumption after the launch of the EOS-1D X. In fact, looking back to August 2010, they announced the development of an APS-H size sensor with an image resolution of approximately 120 megapixels (13,280 x 9,184 pixels), the world's highest level of resolution for its size.  The first was a 50 million sensor made sometime before. By Canon. Both APS-H.

i read it on many websites but have no original canon source.

TexPhoto

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2012, 11:33:32 AM »
Quote
canon said it will not abandon the APS-H sensor format.

I'd like to see that statement. All I am aware of are some vague statements about keeping their options open and similar non-denial denials.

Here's the thing: Canon only made one model with APS-H. Canon never spent a penny on designing a single lens for APS-H. No other manufacturer offers APS-H.

The one thing Canon was very clear about was that the 1Dx would replace both the 1D and 1Ds. The 1D was their newest high-end body at the time and they had no reason to announce it's demise if they had any thought of retaining the format. But they made a conscious choice to declare the 1Dx as the replacement for both bodies.

APS-H is the Betamax of sensors. The technology may be superior, but the market didn't support it.

I think Canon was only too glad to come up with an excuse to abandon it. And, of course, they aren't going to alienate APS-H fans by an outright declaration that it's dead and they probably are truly keeping their options open. I would put the chances of a new APS-H camera just slightly greater than the chance of finding Bigfoot riding a unicorn.

I have to agree with this.  I think we have seen the last of APS-H, but we might see the 1 Mark IV sell for a while after the 1DX goes on sale.

dilbert

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2012, 11:47:11 AM »
APS-H came about because that was the largest size sensor that Canon could initially produce with a single pass of the "stepper" that exposes the silicon wafers.

This meant that full frame sensors such as those in the early 1Ds cameras required two passes of the stepper, introducing risk to the process of creating the sensors if the stepper is not properly aligned for the second pass.

The introduction of the 1DX likely means that Canon now have single pass steppers working well for full frame 35mm sensors and that production of APS-H sensors no longer has a financial advantage for Canon.

Thus there's no chance of seeing APS-H reappear in any other model camera as all of the technical problems that made it attractive from a business perspective have been solved.

The only question that remains is at what point did they start using the single-step production. Was it prior to the 5D Mark II (and thus the drop in price from the 5D to 5D Mark II) or was it later, and hence the price drop from $9000 for the 1Ds series to $6800 for the 1DX.

Gothmoth

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 11:54:47 AM »
chuck westfall said canon is not dropping the APS-H format.

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/

but that maybe only means they use it for video cams....
« Last Edit: January 26, 2012, 11:57:36 AM by Gothmoth »

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2012, 11:54:47 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2012, 12:26:07 PM »
chuck westfall said canon is not dropping the APS-H format.

http://www.dougbrownphotography.com/2011/10/24/chuck-westfall-on-the-canon-eos-1d-x/

but that maybe only means they use it for video cams....

That's in line with what unfocused stated.  "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off.  Canon is keeping all options open for future products."  That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold.  At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing.  We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.
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Gothmoth

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2012, 12:40:19 PM »

That's in line with what unfocused stated.  "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off.  Canon is keeping all options open for future products."  That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold.  At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing.  We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.

yep that´s possible.

i only wonder why they put so much effort in R&D of an 120 MP APS-H sensor?
why did they spend the R&D resources on APS-H and not FF or APS-C?

i mean... i wondered in late 2010 already why they used the APS-H format and not FF.
 

moreorless

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2012, 12:42:04 PM »
That's in line with what unfocused stated.  "The 1.3 crop sensor is not being killed off.  Canon is keeping all options open for future products."  That's 'corporate speak' for indefinite hold.  At my company, we call it 'putting it in the hopper' but it amounts to the same thing.  We did a lot of R&D on it, we don't want to send the message that it was wasted effort, so let's 'keep our options open'.

I'm guessing "on hold unless 1DX/7D mk2 sales disapoint and we see a real demand for it".

One other use for it to me seems to be for a mirrorless system, large enough to offer clear IQ/DOF advanatge over rival systems but not so far as to make the system overly bulky.

mjbehnke

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2012, 12:44:47 PM »
I very much doubt they will change the sensor format of an existing camera. I think any current Aps-C body will continue to be an Aps-C body. If they ever make another Aps-H camera, it will be a new line. I tihnk one reason is that anybody with a current 7D that is using EF-S lenses would have to sell them all, as an Aps-H does not support that lens.

Just my III cents worth.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2012, 12:45:42 PM »
i only wonder why they put so much effort in R&D of an 120 MP APS-H sensor?
why did they spend the R&D resources on APS-H and not FF or APS-C?

Perhaps because while there are other FF and APS-C sensors, Canon was the only one using APS-H - therefore, Canon's claim to having the only 120 MP APS-H sensor will likely stand unchallenged.
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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 01:23:43 PM »
an APS-H would be nice, but the price would for sure go up. i think they would also upgrade the sensor too instead of the older aps-H. and i mean. 1.6 vs 1.3 is sort of a big difference at the same time it isnt i feel.

aps- c 200mm x 1.6 = 320
aps-h 200 x 1.3 = 260

but i mean its prob worth more of a jump from aps-c to ff. actually wouldnt mind whichever. an FF 7D would be cool but then that will get expensive. maybe its too much for canon to balance all 3 sensors? who knows.
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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2012, 01:23:43 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2012, 01:49:50 PM »
Kodak, not Canon made the first APS-H sensors in the early 90's.  It certainly could have had to do with the production capability of the equipment.  It was the standard until Canon came up with a FF sensor.

I liked the APS-H format, and would consider a new APS-H body.  I don't expect to see one, but, if the 1DX falls flat, they might bring it to life again, or, a prosumer body with the larger sensor is also a possibility, Maybe a 7DH?

The one weakness of the APS-H for all around use is the lack of wide lenses.  You really need 12mm to get ultra wide, but the 16-35mm is fine for most uses.  The 14mm prime is priced out of my reach.

traveller

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 01:55:12 PM »
I think that the main reason they won't be putting an APS-H sensor in a non-1D line camera is that they don't want to risk 1DIV users trading down due to their loss of pixels on target in the 1D X.  If they put a 24MP APS-H sensor in a 7D-esque body and charged a 5D MkII price for it, there might be some who'd be tempted. 

My money for the 7D replacement would be on sort of 'mini-1DX', where you'd get most of its features except for the full frame sensor.  Canon might figure that this would keep the birders happy as a second or third body next to their 1D X body(ies).  I bet that both Canon and Nikon will be hoping to add perceived value to this tier of cameras to keep their selling price higher [note how quick the prices for the D300(s) and 7D fell once Nikon lost their 'monopoly' in this price bracket].  This would sit well with the improved specifications of the D7000 and allow Canon to up the specs (and the list price) of the 70D. 

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Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2012, 01:55:12 PM »