December 10, 2016, 05:32:05 PM

Author Topic: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H  (Read 35741 times)

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2012, 09:57:13 AM »
In this case, owners of 7D might be unhappy about downgrading from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop. At best, this would require buying a 1.4x teleconverter ($300 for the mark II, $470 for the mark III). At worst this might require buying new telephoto lenses, and that's really big money.

They have already done this to the 1.3 owners by moving to the ff 1DX - of which a lot were already using the 800 f/5.6. By taking away the f/8 capability there is no way of getting back the extra reach. The longest they can get now is the 600 f/4 + 1.4 to give 840.

The only way to get the extra reach would be by going to a 1.6 - which then hits the noise issues when trying to get the shutter speeds to 1/1500.

A lose/lose situation

The only way I see to resolve the issue is to continue making both both APS-C and APS-H body (whether those are called 7D and 1D or not), anything else taking something away from current owners.

[OK, Canon might be bought by santa, who would offer 1D owners to replace their telephotos with 1.3x longer lenses, but that's not a likely scenario.]

Perhaps we might copy Nikon and have compatibility modes? I dont know if it would be possible to mount ef-s and ef lens on a ff body

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #75 on: January 31, 2012, 09:57:13 AM »

EYEONE

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 612
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #76 on: January 31, 2012, 10:16:40 AM »
In this case, owners of 7D might be unhappy about downgrading from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop. At best, this would require buying a 1.4x teleconverter ($300 for the mark II, $470 for the mark III). At worst this might require buying new telephoto lenses, and that's really big money.

They have already done this to the 1.3 owners by moving to the ff 1DX - of which a lot were already using the 800 f/5.6. By taking away the f/8 capability there is no way of getting back the extra reach. The longest they can get now is the 600 f/4 + 1.4 to give 840.

The only way to get the extra reach would be by going to a 1.6 - which then hits the noise issues when trying to get the shutter speeds to 1/1500.

A lose/lose situation

The only way I see to resolve the issue is to continue making both both APS-C and APS-H body (whether those are called 7D and 1D or not), anything else taking something away from current owners.

[OK, Canon might be bought by santa, who would offer 1D owners to replace their telephotos with 1.3x longer lenses, but that's not a likely scenario.]

Perhaps we might copy Nikon and have compatibility modes? I dont know if it would be possible to mount ef-s and ef lens on a ff body

It's not. EF-S lenses go too deep into the mount and the FF mirror would hit the back of the lens.
Canon 5D Mark III w/BG-E11, Canon 7D w/BG-E7: EF 24-70mm f.2.8L, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS II, EF 40mm f2.8 Pancake STM, Speedlite 430EXII + 430EXI, Canon EOS 3

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #77 on: January 31, 2012, 10:19:01 AM »
In this case, owners of 7D might be unhappy about downgrading from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop. At best, this would require buying a 1.4x teleconverter ($300 for the mark II, $470 for the mark III). At worst this might require buying new telephoto lenses, and that's really big money.

They have already done this to the 1.3 owners by moving to the ff 1DX - of which a lot were already using the 800 f/5.6. By taking away the f/8 capability there is no way of getting back the extra reach. The longest they can get now is the 600 f/4 + 1.4 to give 840.

The only way to get the extra reach would be by going to a 1.6 - which then hits the noise issues when trying to get the shutter speeds to 1/1500.

A lose/lose situation

The only way I see to resolve the issue is to continue making both both APS-C and APS-H body (whether those are called 7D and 1D or not), anything else taking something away from current owners.

[OK, Canon might be bought by santa, who would offer 1D owners to replace their telephotos with 1.3x longer lenses, but that's not a likely scenario.]

Perhaps we might copy Nikon and have compatibility modes? I dont know if it would be possible to mount ef-s and ef lens on a ff body

It's not. EF-S lenses go too deep into the mount and the FF mirror would hit the back of the lens.

I appreciate that it cant be done at the moment but there maybe a way of moving the mirror?

EYEONE

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 612
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #78 on: January 31, 2012, 11:26:01 AM »
In this case, owners of 7D might be unhappy about downgrading from 1.6x crop to 1.3x crop. At best, this would require buying a 1.4x teleconverter ($300 for the mark II, $470 for the mark III). At worst this might require buying new telephoto lenses, and that's really big money.

They have already done this to the 1.3 owners by moving to the ff 1DX - of which a lot were already using the 800 f/5.6. By taking away the f/8 capability there is no way of getting back the extra reach. The longest they can get now is the 600 f/4 + 1.4 to give 840.

The only way to get the extra reach would be by going to a 1.6 - which then hits the noise issues when trying to get the shutter speeds to 1/1500.

A lose/lose situation

The only way I see to resolve the issue is to continue making both both APS-C and APS-H body (whether those are called 7D and 1D or not), anything else taking something away from current owners.

[OK, Canon might be bought by santa, who would offer 1D owners to replace their telephotos with 1.3x longer lenses, but that's not a likely scenario.]

Perhaps we might copy Nikon and have compatibility modes? I dont know if it would be possible to mount ef-s and ef lens on a ff body

It's not. EF-S lenses go too deep into the mount and the FF mirror would hit the back of the lens.

I appreciate that it cant be done at the moment but there maybe a way of moving the mirror?

Well, I've said it before but I think it could be done if Canon used a mirror motion similar to the Sony A900. The mirror in the A900 is pushed up more than it is swung up. It moves forward very little during the operation. I doubt Canon would employ a new shutter design just to allow people to use EF-S lenses on FF cameras however.
Canon 5D Mark III w/BG-E11, Canon 7D w/BG-E7: EF 24-70mm f.2.8L, EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS II, EF 40mm f2.8 Pancake STM, Speedlite 430EXII + 430EXI, Canon EOS 3

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #79 on: January 31, 2012, 11:39:25 AM »

I appreciate that it cant be done at the moment but there maybe a way of moving the mirror?

Well, I've said it before but I think it could be done if Canon used a mirror motion similar to the Sony A900. The mirror in the A900 is pushed up more than it is swung up. It moves forward very little during the operation. I doubt Canon would employ a new shutter design just to allow people to use EF-S lenses on FF cameras however.

Was thinking that top of the range could be a full frame sensor that allowed 1.6 users a seemless and painless migration path upwards. That would mean that xD and xxD  could move to ff and improve the IQ all round. It would also get round the issues with the EF-S and truly allow the APS-H to wither away as there would be no need for compromise.

However it would need more mps on the ff sensor. I suspect new mirror costs would be more than recouped by large scale economics

Rocky

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 769
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #80 on: January 31, 2012, 12:38:03 PM »
The EF-S lenses angle of view cannot cover the whole APS-H snsoer, even after the mirror problem has been taken care of.

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ************
  • Posts: 20050
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2012, 12:53:55 PM »
The EF-S lenses angle of view cannot cover the whole APS-H snsoer, even after the mirror problem has been taken care of.

That's why the suggestion was for a reduced MP final image, just the APS-C frame cropped from the larger sensor.  Nikon doesn't use short back focus lenses, and that's how their DX mode works.
EOS 1D X, EOS M2, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #81 on: January 31, 2012, 12:53:55 PM »

briansquibb

  • Guest
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #82 on: January 31, 2012, 01:27:03 PM »
The EF-S lenses angle of view cannot cover the whole APS-H snsoer, even after the mirror problem has been taken care of.

That's why the suggestion was for a reduced MP final image, just the APS-C frame cropped from the larger sensor.  Nikon doesn't use short back focus lenses, and that's how their DX mode works.

I was thinking the the firmware would give a reduced pixel sizes so as well as mRaw we might have cRaw and hRaw for APS-C view and APS-H view, perhaps even 2kRaw for HD landscape. Rather like an electric version of the old APS film camera.


Vamp898

  • Guest
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #83 on: January 31, 2012, 01:39:50 PM »
To say the truth, i highly doubt that the 7D will get an APS-H, with that step Canon would bring two situations with that.

With crop-lenses (EF-S), you can only use it with reduce megapixels

With Full-Frame lenses, you dont have the full focal-lengh, there is always the crop-factor.

Sou you have the disadvantage of a smaller sensor on full-frame lenses and you have the disadvantage of the reduced MP with a crop-lense (without any advantage like better noise-handling. You just loose parts of your sensor).

Also Canons flagship would be the 60D again until 70D is released. You can not compare the 7D view-finder with the 60D view-finder and i doubt that the 70D view-finder and features will _that_ better to be the new 7D.

So Nikon takes the lead in the APS-C section with the D7000 and Sony with its Alpha 77 is close after it.

Where would Canon be? An 7D with an DIGIC5 Sensor is exactly what Canon needs in the APS-C Sector, using an APS-H sensor wouldnt be that clever at all.

Also it seems like canon dont want to use the APS-H anymore, at least the choise of merging the 1D and 1Ds look like that for me.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2012, 01:42:37 PM by Vamp898 »

moreorless

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 753
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #84 on: January 31, 2012, 02:52:03 PM »
For a mirrorless system with APS-H sensor not to use EF lens would be a total folly on Canon's behalf. With the EF-S mount there are only a few good lens (3 or 4?) whereas to have to redesign all the good EF lens for a new mount does not make commercial sense

Using EF-S lenses would surely mean that Canon would be unable to reduce the flange distance and thus unable to save much space on a mirrorless body as there rivals have.

Seems most likely to me that they'd create a small new system of general purpose mirrorless lenses along with an EF adaptor to allow for more speicalist lenses to be used with AF intact. Not being able to use EF-S lenses doesnt seem like much of a problem to me since there arent really any speicalist lenses in the lineup besides arguebley the 60mm macro which has many EF alternatives anyway.

nicku

  • Canon 70D
  • ****
  • Posts: 300
Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2012, 03:49:49 AM »
For a mirrorless system with APS-H sensor not to use EF lens would be a total folly on Canon's behalf. With the EF-S mount there are only a few good lens (3 or 4?) whereas to have to redesign all the good EF lens for a new mount does not make commercial sense

Using EF-S lenses would surely mean that Canon would be unable to reduce the flange distance and thus unable to save much space on a mirrorless body as there rivals have.

Seems most likely to me that they'd create a small new system of general purpose mirrorless lenses along with an EF adaptor to allow for more speicalist lenses to be used with AF intact. Not being able to use EF-S lenses doesnt seem like much of a problem to me since there arent really any speicalist lenses in the lineup besides arguebley the 60mm macro which has many EF alternatives anyway.

I do the same. i believe that the final price will be under $3.000

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 7D Mk2 ..... APS-H
« Reply #85 on: February 02, 2012, 03:49:49 AM »