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Author Topic: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras  (Read 19778 times)

fyngyrz

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Is anyone else as...
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 04:06:16 PM »
...completely unmoved by Canon's recent gear as I am?

For lenses, I'm interested in fast, low-CA lenses. And no, 2.8 isn't fast. 1.2 or 1.0 is fast.

For cameras, I'm interested in high ISO and low noise and more dynamic range. Not more pixels. 10...15mp is fine.

As for price, I'm interested in 5DmkII territory... $7000 is cause for hilarity, not purchase.

Seriously, it's been years since Canon released *anything* I actually wanted to go out and buy.

Half of every day is spent in the dark. Cameras and lenses that do poorly in the dark are of exactly zero interest, especially when we're talking the prices we do for EF/EOS.

I'm hoping for a 5DmkIII priced like the mkII that will add even more light-gathering capacity to my 85mm and 50mm f1.2 lenses. $3000 absolute tops.

The 5DmkII is *really* long in the tooth now. I like it, all right, but it's long past time it was retired for something better.

Better shots. In darker environments. That's the key. After all, a camera that can do that will do well in the daytime, too.

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Is anyone else as...
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 04:06:16 PM »

psolberg

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 04:15:00 PM »
Let me just say admin that I've followed your site for years. never cared for the forums but this time I will. I've heard you say many times before (pretty much every year for the last two years) that this would be a big lens years. never is. canon sticks to its schedule of updates and a couple of new things now and then. But this year is likely to be the typical thing as lenses go, because that's how it goes all the time. Lenses will come as they always do with a +- few variance at best. we're not going to get 10 lenses by july, period. we haven't even gotten stuff that was anounced last year!.

Second, new better lenses don't point to a huge MP body. it is just the logical progression of things. everybody else, nikon/sony/sigma whatever, put out new models with better optics all the time. If they weren't better, nobody would buy them considering they are always more expensive. This is just wishful thinking from people that wish canon to keep chasing the ever pointless MP crown.
 
Third, canon isn't going back and forth at this point like a panic grandmother. The D5III is already what it is likely just about to be made official with production and tooling already churning out parts. 22MP or 52MP, it is what it is and if it doesn't fit somebody's idea of perfect, then that's life.

All we're hearing is a reaction to Nikon's D800, and we always do, for nikon can't do anything without people freaking out why canon isn't doing the same and vice versa. I'm sure everybody is emailing you that a 50MP 3DX is inminent in just a few months....curiously just as the D800 makes a splash. Whereas before everybody was emailing you that a low MP 5D was on the wings because that's what nikon was supposed to have.

get it? it's all just the same trend. I enjoy educated guessing but let's keep things realistic.


... The question is, how will the current line of lenses fare under 36+ MP scrutiny? ...

Have you seen images taken with good glass on a 7D?  They are good, right?  That is the same pixel density as a 46MP FF camera.  A 37MP camera is equivalent to 16MP APS-C (D7000).  Why is this still part of the conversation?  The only APS-C/FF camera with a high density than the 7D is the Sony a77 at 24MP APS-C.  Why does everyone think this is some unknown territory we have never seen before?

My 10MP XTi has a higher density sensor than the 5D Mark II, 1Dx, and D4 (would come out to be a 26.3MP FF).  Can I still get pixel-level sharpness with excellent glass?  The answer is yes.

EXACTLY. THANKS. Nikon/Canon/Sony don't need new lenses for 30MP+ full frame. Maybe if it was APSC and maybe if it was in the 40MP range. All this stuff about one lens indicating a huge MP jump is a bunch of wishful thinking. Surely edges in full frame cameras are going to come under scrutiny of the pixel peepers, but who cares. 36MP is only about a 20% linear increase over 20's so if the edges were good before, they will be good after. Sony, as other pointed out, has a 24MP APSC sensor which if sony wanted to, could be upsized to over 50MP. At that point *maybe* you'll start to worry. But 36MP is simply the next natural step.
22 is the new 12,
36 is the new 22.

Quote
Canon should not take the D800 lightly. It´s just one camera, but it could destroy the Canon sales if Canon fails to reply right now! Show who´s boss. I always think realistic! Right now Canon is in a lot of trouble.
I hate to break it to you but this is precisely what's wrong with the crowds. Canon doesnt' have to show anybody who's boss...because there is NO boss. In fact if you look at specifications, Nikon had both the highest MP pro level DSLR (D3x if you don't consider the A900 pro) and the highest ISO performing full frame camera. Did canon die? did they get destroyed? What about this, canon doesn't have the highest MP apsc body either. are they going to die?

let's cool off for a second, put fanboyism aside and think straight. people switch back and forth all the time. canon has a lead in some areas and lag in others. you can't expect, and you'll never see any one company be the top of everything. it may have happened in the film days but not these days.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2012, 04:58:58 PM by psolberg »

jasonsim

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 05:04:38 PM »
I´m sorry if things i said was upsetting to some, the thing is that i´m a very realistic person. I´m not a certain brand fanatic, though Canon is my first choice. The Nikon D800 has the same AF and metering system as the D4. 36mp and probably the best video from a dslr today. I have no doubts in my mind that Canon can make a camera just as good. But they need to hurry, they have to give us something to look forward to, not today not tomorrow, but yesterday. The sad part is that i know for a fact that a lot of people selling their canon gear and the reason is "swithing system" that´s what it says in their ads. Many doubt that Canon can match the D800. As we speak more and more are having thoughts of going to the other side. Canon should not take the D800 lightly. It´s just one camera, but it could destroy the Canon sales if Canon fails to reply right now! Show who´s boss. I always think realistic! Right now Canon is in a lot of trouble.

I agree, Canon has to come out with a killer response to the D800 and D800e.  I doubt that they have a very good response though; perhaps a reason for them delaying the release of a 5D III. 

As for the new 24-70mm f/2.8 II: no IS is a real bummer and so is the stratospheric price!  Did not see a need for the version 1, much less a need for version II.  Damn dumb for Canon to put IS into consumer grade 28mm and 24mm primes.

The comment about the 50mm f/1.2L II possibility is just crazy.  The 50mm f/1.2L is not that old and they could stand to improve quality control on it.  Took me two tries to get a good one.  Still not the best AF, but I can live with it.
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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 05:50:03 PM »
While I agree that we're not exactly lens resolution-limited, it should be noted that overall shaprness is a combination of multiple factors, and sharper lenses will yield increased overall sharpness. 

Have you seen images taken with good glass on a 7D?  They are good, right?  That is the same pixel density as a 46MP FF camera.   Why does everyone think this is some unknown territory we have never seen before?

Because we haven't seen it before.  The unknown territory is the combination of high pixel density and the perpiphery of the image circle.   If you look at lens performance and/or theoretical MTF curves, you notice that lenses perform best in the center of the image circle, and that's the part that we see with an EF lens and an APS-C sensor.



Hi Neuro,

Do you think there's a case for making the image circle of L lenses larger and is this behind the front element getting wider on the new lenses (for a given max aperture)?  Is this going to be where they find the FF lens quality, by forming the FF image using just the middle part of oversize lenses?   

It's a formula that works splendidly in the TS/E lenses.

Is there a reason why this wouldn't work (other than needing some stupendous aspherical surfaces and heading towards Leica S2 territory).

 

Woody

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2012, 06:58:43 PM »
I agree, Canon has to come out with a killer response to the D800 and D800e.  I doubt that they have a very good response though; perhaps a reason for them delaying the release of a 5D III.

Thought we should all take a walk down memory lane.

Does anyone remember the time when the Nikon D90 was announced? It was the first camera with video capabilities and everyone thought Canon was doomed. But several weeks later, the 5D2 was announced: FF camera with 1080p video capability. Then, as they say, the rest is history: nobody ever talked about the video capability of the D90 anymore, the 5D2 became a massive seller for Canon (surprising even Canon themselves) and every single Canon DSLR after the 5D2 was equipped 1080p video capability while Nikon had nothing to offer (with 1080p) until the D3100 was released...

psolberg

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2012, 07:37:02 PM »
I agree, Canon has to come out with a killer response to the D800 and D800e.  I doubt that they have a very good response though; perhaps a reason for them delaying the release of a 5D III.

Thought we should all take a walk down memory lane.

Does anyone remember the time when the Nikon D90 was announced? It was the first camera with video capabilities and everyone thought Canon was doomed. But several weeks later, the 5D2 was announced: FF camera with 1080p video capability. Then, as they say, the rest is history: nobody ever talked about the video capability of the D90 anymore, the 5D2 became a massive seller for Canon (surprising even Canon themselves) and every single Canon DSLR after the 5D2 was equipped 1080p video capability while Nikon had nothing to offer (with 1080p) until the D3100 was released...

they were different cameras though. the D90 was not a 5D competitor or ever was, it was a 50/40D competitor. The D700 was the closest to a 5D competitor but really it was more of a speed demon than a high res studio camera....Also the D700 had NO video which was an auto win for canon. not so much this time around. so in a way nikon has never had a 5D competitor until now. And now it looks like the 5DIII will become a D700 competitor just as nikon leaves that segment. The bottom line is that just like the D700 wasn't inferior to the canon 5DII because it was different, and more than made up for the non video guys, the canon 5DIII won't be inferior to the nikon 800. They will be aimed at different needs and please different owners. The big news IMO is that video is now pretty much a zero sum game with all manufacturers doing it. so the free lunch of the 5D line is over.

PJshooter

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2012, 11:11:28 PM »
Hey Canon, c'mon, with the pricing?  :o

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2012, 11:11:28 PM »

Wrathwilde

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2012, 11:46:00 PM »
my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.

SomeGuyInNewJersey

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Re: Is anyone else as...
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2012, 11:57:10 PM »
Half of every day is spent in the dark.

Sounds like somebody didnt pay their electricity bill...

Waterdonkey

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2012, 12:20:51 AM »
I don't think anyone has brought it up...

But what ever the camera combo, the Video offering need to output 1080p 4:2:2 video@60,30 and 24.
H.264 is a nightmare to deal with in the broadcast world (I work for CBS in SF). We don't generally have time for grading and tweaking. You need good clean video at about 50Mbs ( Broadcast Standard? I think? Even tough we broadcast HD @ 35Mbs). 
I know the 5D II was a boon for the film guys and what a camera it is - I should'a bought that instead of 7D- but the film guys have time to deal with and grade the footage. 
Looking at this from the video guy point of view- I sometimes use my 7D as a 2nd cam with a Sony XDCAM-HD 350L and ok, it's the old 35Mbs VBR not the 50 Mbs.  We take the HD-SDI out to a Nanoflash drive and that writes 35Mbs .MOV files. Some how that was easier then dealing with the XD"wraper" that comes off the XD disk...Now, I'm wading into the Editor's world, where they speak in CODEC and RENDER TIME and XD WRAPPERS and things I don't understand.
The point is I give them my H.264 1080p 30frames video out of my 7D and they cringe and say this will take forever to render to 4:2:2 Prores  HD (or whatever) in FCP.

The crazy high 4K should be held for maybe the C400? C300 is already 4K, they just have two green channels along with the R and B... and more things I don't, well, uh, understand ...

Am I making any sense?


D.Sim

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2012, 12:51:49 AM »
my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.

you beat me to it, 4D is highly unlikely (Even though Nikon did come out with a D4, so theres that...)

That said, a new high megapix camera... not something i'd want Canon to come up with, to be honest. I don't think it'll be too much like them to release one "just to" compete with the Nikon, they'll come up with something that Nikon doesn't have... mark my words

« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 02:58:31 AM by D.Sim »

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2012, 01:29:47 AM »
Now that the cat is out of the bag, we keep hearing (well maybe more Graig then us!) more and more of the high MP camera some dream of being part of the 2012 line up.  I think it will come after the 5DX or 5DIII and am sure it will blow the D800 out of the water. My two cents.

Well my to cents concerning the rumor " I have heard there will be a very high megapixel camera some time in 2012, possibly in the 40mp range and it won’t be the “5D Mark III":

This is marketing crap to torpedo D800 sales, e.g. people switching systems from Nikon to Canon. *Developing* a high MP camera is not exactly the same as having it in the release pipeline like Nikon, is it? And the updated primes they just released are not high MP but for video - the segment in which Canon is in ahead.

If Canon would be even in the general vicinity of a Camera of the D800 type, they'd call it 5DIII. If this really is released w/ 22MP, we'll know there's no high MP variant on the horizon.

BlueMixWhite

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2012, 02:49:58 AM »
All the comparision between Nikon and Canon, did anyone realize the D4 is being delay. Nikon too have their release problem to deal with. 

The first shipment of Nikon D4 cameras is delayed. The original date of February 16th is now pushed till March 15th, 2012. The reason for the delay seems to a be firmware bug and not a hardware issue. This appears to be a worldwide delay, not specific to a country or a region. The US press release listed the Nikon D4 availability as "late February".


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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2012, 02:49:58 AM »

Woody

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2012, 05:32:25 AM »
The truth is Canon is very very good in keeping their plans under wraps. We gotta give this to them. Sure, there may be 'leaks' here and there, but no one can tell with certainty, from miles away, what their road-map is and what their next product is going to be. Contrast this with Sony's MILC releases and even the D800: detailed leaks of their specs were typically spot on several weeks or months before announcements.

I believe even if the upcoming 5D3/5DX is 'only' 22 MP and 7 fps, as rumored, it does not mean Canon has no intention of releasing a 2D or 3D camera with 40 MP. For all we know, Canon may release a 6D rebel-like FF camera with 9 AF pt, 3 fps and 40 MP? Canon, after all, has unveiled a 100 MP APS-H sensor some years ago. :)
« Last Edit: February 09, 2012, 06:27:38 AM by Woody »

DzPhotography

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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2012, 07:50:44 AM »
my bets are on 4D.

I'll bet you $20 Canon will not have a 4D in their line up. The number four is considered inauspicious, in Japan, because it is pronounced the same as the word for death.
Why the Nikon D4 then?  ;D
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Re: What's Next? Lenses & Cameras
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2012, 07:50:44 AM »