September 25, 2017, 08:32:38 PM

Author Topic: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP  (Read 5111 times)

Random Orbits

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 12:37:53 AM »
While, in theory, it would be nice to have a camera this size that allows me to use my ef and ef-s lenses, I wouldn't want to use fast lenses.

According to TDP:  "While it focuses very consistently (most important), the review camera I have been using unfortunately focuses slightly in front of its subjects and, with the AF Microadjustment feature not included in this model, this SL2 needs a visit to Canon Service (or exchanged). "

Yes, I've heard the assertion that this is not for fast lenses.  So why would somebody wanting a small camera limit themselves?  If they have the lenses, they have to put aside the fast ones.  If they don't have the lenses but they want a small body, why not go with mirrorless and the associated native lenses?

I can, however, see its appeal to those who don't know about AFMA, don't even know about aperture, and that's a big market.  Canon seems to be a company that does solid market research!

For those that value size and weight highly (i.e. hikers), this camera fills a niche.  SL2 + EF-S 24, EF 40 or a 50 STM, and that will be good enough in a small and light package.

Personally, I have a lot of heavy gear including fast lenses, so a M5 would be more appealing.

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 12:37:53 AM »

mb66energy

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 01:11:13 AM »
Since the 6d2 is officially off my checklist, I may pick up one of these down the road to pair up with my 6d and to have a crop body for more reach. The specs seem to be pretty good, and i'll get to have a camera with a tilty screen. :D

Same here and that is one reason why I bought that camera. 80D is to large / heavy and doesn't give (much) better IQ sensor-wise. I will stay with 5D for a while for FF and maybe a FF mirrorless body is the next investment for landscape+macro, but also for re-use of FD glass i own.
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

mb66energy

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 01:20:43 AM »
I can, however, see its appeal to those who don't know about AFMA, don't even know about aperture, and that's a big market.  Canon seems to be a company that does solid market research!
Would never even consider getting a DSLR without AFMA...

I think for the folks that shoot @ f/5.6 it won't matter much. But I agree if they included AFMA that would be a terrific camera.

Wrong AF @ f/5.6 is a problem just with consumer tele and macro lenses ... on a 24 MPix APS-C body (would be 62 MPix on FF). f/5.6 is the "new 4.0 or 2.8" for these sensors. I think that SL2 might be some path from smart phone photography to SL2 to 6D to whatever - so it might matter for those who just want to see if a DSLR is better than a smart phone for photography.

And after some initial use of the SL2 I see some things with the AF I do not understand. I won't blame camera and/or lens for that. But having AFMA would NOW be great as an optional tool - so +1 for your statement, that AFMA would make it a terrific camera!
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 01:30:06 AM by mb66energy »
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Khufu

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 05:28:02 AM »
Did they include the 3x Video Crop mode? :(

I'm still carrying around an M2 and adapter to slap on the back of my 400/5.6L for filming kingfishers, woodpeckers and other tiny, distant creatures. I would love an upgrade in ISO 800 performance; is the M3 going to be my last upgarde option... ever?!
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YuengLinger

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 07:46:00 AM »
I can, however, see its appeal to those who don't know about AFMA, don't even know about aperture, and that's a big market.  Canon seems to be a company that does solid market research!
Its much more likely AF problems are in the lens rather than the camera so AFMA is so you can get by until you can return a new lens or make do for a second hand one. If you get one of the Rebels you just need to test your lenses promptly and get them fixed if there is an AF problem. Keeping lenses with wompy AF and relying on AFMA keeps you from switching cameras easily.

It's actually no sweat, so long as you just by Sigma and Tamron new glass. Just dock adjust to the SL1 and then use the Canon AFMA to adjust the other bodies to the adjusted lens. This has worked well for me for two SL1s over time. Sticking the 18-35 Art on an SL body is a powerful package. Great second body.

Excellent point, so dSLR's without AF should continue to help Sigma sell more lenses.  And maybe Canon will peddle its own version of a little USB docky thing?

« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 09:04:54 AM by YuengLinger »

mb66energy

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 09:53:36 AM »
Did they include the 3x Video Crop mode? :(

I'm still carrying around an M2 and adapter to slap on the back of my 400/5.6L for filming kingfishers, woodpeckers and other tiny, distant creatures. I would love an upgrade in ISO 800 performance; is the M3 going to be my last upgarde option... ever?!

Only about 3x (...10x) Video Crop: It is there in the SL2 / 200D but AF is only limited to center AF as far as I have seen it on my camera. All the goodies like Tracking, off center focus area are NOT available with 3x zoom. The resolution is limited to FHD with 25P (two compression rates).
EDIT: There is another setting that allows you access to typical NTSC formats in digital zoom mode: FHD with 29.97 and 23.976 fps - I was a little bit annoyed by not finding the 60fps while seeing it in advertisements, so I searched the right "switch" in the menu.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 10:04:53 AM by mb66energy »
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ritholtz

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 10:52:57 AM »
I can, however, see its appeal to those who don't know about AFMA, don't even know about aperture, and that's a big market.  Canon seems to be a company that does solid market research!
Its much more likely AF problems are in the lens rather than the camera so AFMA is so you can get by until you can return a new lens or make do for a second hand one. If you get one of the Rebels you just need to test your lenses promptly and get them fixed if there is an AF problem. Keeping lenses with wompy AF and relying on AFMA keeps you from switching cameras easily.

It's actually no sweat, so long as you just by Sigma and Tamron new glass. Just dock adjust to the SL1 and then use the Canon AFMA to adjust the other bodies to the adjusted lens. This has worked well for me for two SL1s over time. Sticking the 18-35 Art on an SL body is a powerful package. Great second body.

Excellent point, so dSLR's without AF should continue to help Sigma sell more lenses.  And maybe Canon will peddle its own version of a little USB docky thing?
They should just design auto AFMA like Nikon and add it to all DSLR's.  There is no wireless transmitter to fire off camera flashes in SL2.  View finder also not showing all the information like Rebels. Canon marketing team put in all their effort to design different Cameras (80d, 77d, t7i, sl2, M5,M6 and M100) with different price points using same sensor with dual pixel tech. It is very difficult to find out a winner or one with better value.
 


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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 10:52:57 AM »

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2017, 12:04:58 PM »
If you do "fix" a lens for one camera by sending it to Canon, it might not play as well with another.  That's what makes in-camera AFMA so great.  The lens works great on any body which has had AFMA registered for that lens.  And AFMA can be done in as little as five minutes per lens per body.

Btw, for the record, I'm very happy with my 80D.
OK, it may just be me. Between my Rebel and 6D only one lens needs AFMA and then it's fine on the 6 but unusable on the Rebel. The rest are all OK back and forth but then none are over 1.8.

YuengLinger

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2017, 05:54:32 AM »
If you do "fix" a lens for one camera by sending it to Canon, it might not play as well with another.  That's what makes in-camera AFMA so great.  The lens works great on any body which has had AFMA registered for that lens.  And AFMA can be done in as little as five minutes per lens per body.

Btw, for the record, I'm very happy with my 80D.
OK, it may just be me. Between my Rebel and 6D only one lens needs AFMA and then it's fine on the 6 but unusable on the Rebel. The rest are all OK back and forth but then none are over 1.8.

If I understand what you are saying, your lens behaves differently on the Rebel after you have applied AFMA on the 6D.  But Canon's AFMA system does nothing physical whatsoever to the lens.  I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong, but from my understanding, the camera body uses a look-up table for each registered lens, then makes a slight compensation for the AFMA value for each shot taken with the lens.  Nothing physically changes in either lens or camera due to AFMA.  It's not as if the glass or sensor has been "adjusted."

Just my personal opinion, but a camera in 2017 without AFMA available is not an attractive option or even a worthwhile compromise to any but the most casual shooter.  But the most casual shooters are happy with their cell phones.  There are simply too many mirrorless options or slightly more expensive dSLR's that have AFMA.

Oh, I'm sure the sales numbers will be adequate.  And I know that many, many photographers who want an optical viewfinder and a small package, and, as already addressed, use lenses in the f/4.5 and up range, haven't even heard of AFMA.  And so does Canon.

And maybe Canon sees an end game for dSLR's; otherwise, why play gotcha with a feature that is firmware based and would remove one of the cons of choosing a dSLR over a mirrorless? 

Just an observation that may have nothing to do with "real world" interest in this little dSLR, but look how few posts there are for it compared to mirrorless and higher end dSLR cameras being released this year.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 06:06:39 AM by YuengLinger »

Khufu

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2017, 04:26:02 PM »
Did they include the 3x Video Crop mode? :(

I'm still carrying around an M2 and adapter to slap on the back of my 400/5.6L for filming kingfishers, woodpeckers and other tiny, distant creatures. I would love an upgrade in ISO 800 performance; is the M3 going to be my last upgarde option... ever?!

Only about 3x (...10x) Video Crop: It is there in the SL2 / 200D but AF is only limited to center AF as far as I have seen it on my camera. All the goodies like Tracking, off center focus area are NOT available with 3x zoom. The resolution is limited to FHD with 25P (two compression rates).
EDIT: There is another setting that allows you access to typical NTSC formats in digital zoom mode: FHD with 29.97 and 23.976 fps - I was a little bit annoyed by not finding the 60fps while seeing it in advertisements, so I searched the right "switch" in the menu.

WHAT?!

AAARGH, FFS!

I thought the possibility of this feature being included in the 200D might please me, and I didn't expect it would be there; but now I'm just even more p****d off that they left it out of the M5... Who at Canon do I have to grab by the nuts to get an explination of why is been omitted from the M5 and prompt them to release firmware with it included?
I just tried out an M5 yesterday with my 400/5.6L attached and it was awesome...  and lacking the one feature that would have made me hand over all my money for a versatile, useful piece of kit :(

Edit: Also, the EOS M3 does NOT have the video crop mode; I swear I read people on this forum talking about it being there... Is the M2 actually the only EOS M with the 3x video crop mode? I love my M2, would love a Viewfinder on it though, and the M5 does feel and operate like a proper camera...
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 04:30:33 PM by Khufu »
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mb66energy

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2017, 04:49:52 AM »
Did they include the 3x Video Crop mode? :(

I'm still carrying around an M2 and adapter to slap on the back of my 400/5.6L for filming kingfishers, woodpeckers and other tiny, distant creatures. I would love an upgrade in ISO 800 performance; is the M3 going to be my last upgarde option... ever?!

Only about 3x (...10x) Video Crop: It is there in the SL2 / 200D but AF is only limited to center AF as far as I have seen it on my camera. All the goodies like Tracking, off center focus area are NOT available with 3x zoom. The resolution is limited to FHD with 25P (two compression rates).
EDIT: There is another setting that allows you access to typical NTSC formats in digital zoom mode: FHD with 29.97 and 23.976 fps - I was a little bit annoyed by not finding the 60fps while seeing it in advertisements, so I searched the right "switch" in the menu.

WHAT?!

AAARGH, FFS!

I thought the possibility of this feature being included in the 200D might please me, and I didn't expect it would be there; but now I'm just even more p****d off that they left it out of the M5... Who at Canon do I have to grab by the nuts to get an explination of why is been omitted from the M5 and prompt them to release firmware with it included?
I just tried out an M5 yesterday with my 400/5.6L attached and it was awesome...  and lacking the one feature that would have made me hand over all my money for a versatile, useful piece of kit :(

Edit: Also, the EOS M3 does NOT have the video crop mode; I swear I read people on this forum talking about it being there... Is the M2 actually the only EOS M with the 3x video crop mode? I love my M2, would love a Viewfinder on it though, and the M5 does feel and operate like a proper camera...

Sorry for the "bad" news. I too do not understand some of the combinations of features in cameras. That they left out AFMA in the SL2 / 200D is reasonable, but that they left out safety shift is NOT reasonable for a "beginners" camera. It helped me a lot, now I have to check blinking Time / Aperture display values ...
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

mb66energy

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 11:23:18 AM »
I can, however, see its appeal to those who don't know about AFMA, don't even know about aperture, and that's a big market.  Canon seems to be a company that does solid market research!
Would never even consider getting a DSLR without AFMA...

I think for the folks that shoot @ f/5.6 it won't matter much. But I agree if they included AFMA that would be a terrific camera.

Wrong AF @ f/5.6 is a problem just with consumer tele and macro lenses ... on a 24 MPix APS-C body (would be 62 MPix on FF). f/5.6 is the "new 4.0 or 2.8" for these sensors. I think that SL2 might be some path from smart phone photography to SL2 to 6D to whatever - so it might matter for those who just want to see if a DSLR is better than a smart phone for photography.

And after some initial use of the SL2 I see some things with the AF I do not understand. I won't blame camera and/or lens for that. But having AFMA would NOW be great as an optional tool - so +1 for your statement, that AFMA would make it a terrific camera!

After much mure use (and besides testing) of my 200D I am shure that the 9pt AF system focuses right including EF 2.0 100mm.

I was misled by the small extension of the AF LEDs in the view finder. My idea is that the extension of the AF sensor fields is larger than the LED spot and larger than the small frames around it. While PD AF locks in to the nearest object in the range of the subsensor arrays of each AF point some plants slightly before the plant (on an acre) might have locked AF but not the intended plant slightly behind it. So I misinterpreted it as "front focusing".
Most used tools: EOS 200D + EF-S 60mm + 4.0 / 70-200 IS AND/OR EOS 5D i  + 4.0 70-200 IS + 2.8 100 Macro

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Re: Review: Canon EOS Rebel SL2 / 200D / Kiss X9 by TDP
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2017, 11:23:18 AM »