June 22, 2018, 07:42:24 AM

Author Topic: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]  (Read 45441 times)

traveller

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2017, 07:30:16 AM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

If they're still at the APS-H test sensor stage, I doubt we'll see a 5DSII next year! Or are you implying that your source may have got their facts muddled?

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2017, 07:30:16 AM »

Hector1970

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2017, 09:06:46 AM »
On moire I've never had an issue with it on a 5DSR.
I'm sure it could occur but I haven't noticed.
64MP or 120 MP sounds great but even 50MP is a bit of a pain.
You need a very good Laptop / PC to handle the files quickly.
Most off the shelf ones are too slow.
My wish for a 5DSR II would be better image quality especially at higher ISO's
The current one is very good in perfect conditions.
I don't like the noise at higher ISOs. In my version it's smudgy (very like my 7DII noise).
I've found my 5D III and 5IV better at higher ISO's and grain finer.
An increase in frame rate if it could cope would be good.
I'd like a wider dynamic range even if it matched the best currently I'd be satisfied.

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2017, 09:34:27 AM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

If they're still at the APS-H test sensor stage, I doubt we'll see a 5DSII next year! Or are you implying that your source may have got their facts muddled?

This makes no sense. The only difference between the 5D and 5Ds is the sensor. There is nothing else to test.

Canoneer

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2017, 09:43:00 AM »

and like I said, canon's already been actively demo'ing the 120MP DSLR for the past two years and have actually stated "it's coming.. " it's actually in development now since sept 2016, as a 120MP DSLR.  Again, that's not even a rumor, it's already been stated by canon.  So what there's going to be two more different high resolution 5D's coming out? that seems unlikely. 

and you're wrong on the lenses, you're into the world of oversampling.  every lens will improve even the worst.

The lens quality issue won't be a problem if the oversampling ratio is 4:1; a 120MP image with 4:1 oversampling would yield a 30MP image, which is well within the resolving power of all Canon L glass. The problems would arise when attempting to use the full 120MP image resolution without oversampling. Only a handful of L series primes stopped down between F4 and F8 would be capable of corner to corner sharpness at that resolution. But as long as Canon provides the means to record both full-size 120MP RAW files and 30MP oversampled RAW files, then photographers get the best of both worlds. The 120MP may not give you corner-to-corner sharpness with any given lens, but it does give you the ability to crop in the center with a factor of 2 and still yield an image of 5D mk.4 quality. Meanwhile, an oversampled image of 30MP would blow away a 5D mk.4 in terms of IQ with greater DR, and fewer false color artifacts.

BillB

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2017, 09:50:26 AM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

If they're still at the APS-H test sensor stage, I doubt we'll see a 5DSII next year! Or are you implying that your source may have got their facts muddled?

This makes no sense. The only difference between the 5D and 5Ds is the sensor. There is nothing else to test.

You might want to look at the spec sheets for the 5DIII, the 5DS, and the 5DIV.

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2017, 11:48:10 AM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

If they're still at the APS-H test sensor stage, I doubt we'll see a 5DSII next year! Or are you implying that your source may have got their facts muddled?

canon tests their sensors at APS-H size because it's the largest most economical one they can do in small batches.

a full frame sensor is stitched with three exposures.  APS-H takes only one.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 11:52:38 AM by rrcphoto »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »

and like I said, canon's already been actively demo'ing the 120MP DSLR for the past two years and have actually stated "it's coming.. " it's actually in development now since sept 2016, as a 120MP DSLR.  Again, that's not even a rumor, it's already been stated by canon.  So what there's going to be two more different high resolution 5D's coming out? that seems unlikely. 

and you're wrong on the lenses, you're into the world of oversampling.  every lens will improve even the worst.

The lens quality issue won't be a problem if the oversampling ratio is 4:1; a 120MP image with 4:1 oversampling would yield a 30MP image, which is well within the resolving power of all Canon L glass. The problems would arise when attempting to use the full 120MP image resolution without oversampling. Only a handful of L series primes stopped down between F4 and F8 would be capable of corner to corner sharpness at that resolution. But as long as Canon provides the means to record both full-size 120MP RAW files and 30MP oversampled RAW files, then photographers get the best of both worlds. The 120MP may not give you corner-to-corner sharpness with any given lens, but it does give you the ability to crop in the center with a factor of 2 and still yield an image of 5D mk.4 quality. Meanwhile, an oversampled image of 30MP would blow away a 5D mk.4 in terms of IQ with greater DR, and fewer false color artifacts.

sRAW would be 30mp.  however you're better off tailoring that yourself.

however yes, the oversampling effect would simply blow out any lower MP camera aka a Mark IV.

you're also correct about the crop factor.  it's HUGE and I think people aren't getting this. this is the FIRST camera EVER that beats out any crop format for resolving power.

you can do a 2x crop factor on this and get better resolving than with any m43's camera body. (30mp to 20mp)

so you can use a 300mm lens like a 600mm lens like they do in the m43 world

in the right hands and with the right mindset, this will be a pretty awesome camera if it's this.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 11:57:17 AM by rrcphoto »

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2017, 11:49:06 AM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2017, 11:51:50 AM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

yes/no. they would simply scale the masks for production.  but that still wouldn't work out.  they'd need around a 70MP APS-H to make that all work out to 120MP.

that would put it at 100MP though, which would be a nice number as well.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 11:56:26 AM by rrcphoto »

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2017, 12:49:05 PM »
Update 09/04/2017 @ 16:56 EST: Keep in mind that Canon uses APS-H sensors in some test bodies and this can affect pixel count.

If they're still at the APS-H test sensor stage, I doubt we'll see a 5DSII next year! Or are you implying that your source may have got their facts muddled?

canon tests their sensors at APS-H size because it's the largest most economical one they can do in small batches...

Okay, that makes some sense now. Although wondering where the 60 mp number came from. A 60 mp APS-H sensor would scale out to about 100 mp, which seems like a big leap.  If they are testing a 35.5 mp APS-H sensor it would scale out to about 60 mp, full frame. One seems conservative and one seems too extreme.

Time will tell. 

Maiaibing

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2017, 01:44:12 PM »

I'd love a 120mpx camera, but I don't think there's enough demand for it, because it will be a pain to work with such huge files, it'll be slow and you'll have to downsample almost everything to make it worthwhile.

You are confused. There is no need to "downsample" anything - ever. "Downsampling" is not something any photographer "does" with his/her pictures and has nothing to do with how you view your results on screen or in print - its only - and exclusively - used as a technical path to compare different sensors, but has no meaning when viewing your resulting final images.

sure they do. I take 600mp stitched images all the time and downsample them for additional clarity and sharpness.

My sigma merrills are marvelous for doing this.
You're not downsampling anything. You're just stiching and printning (or viewing) at the size you prefer. Nothing different from what you would do with any other camera - no matter what pixel count.


no, I actually downsample.

I take the image at it's 600mp and when I'm ready to save for final printing, i change the resolution DOWN and choose an appropriate sampling algorithm.  that's downsampling.

when you print, even when you don't downsample it happens during the print process anyways.

when you view the full image on your screen,it's significantly downsampled.
I give up...

NancyP

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: September 06, 2017, 01:51:36 PM »
To tell the truth, I would rather have increased dynamic range and less noise than more pixels.

AdjustedInCamera

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: September 06, 2017, 02:31:51 PM »
I hope the "Identical body to the EOS 5D Mark IV" part is not true. As a high resolution camera that is often used in live view on a tripod, an up-down tilting screen would be really useful.

+1

Personally find it strange that even reviewers highlight the tilty-screens as being good for getting those 'impossible otherwise shots'. Personally, just having the camera on a tripod, and being able to adjust the screen rather than myself is a massive win.

Also, I wouldn't know how to shoot video at any resolution unless I could hold the camera securely which seems, again, to require the screen to be adjusted so I can actually see what it's filming.

vscd

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2017, 02:33:59 PM »
To tell the truth, I would rather have increased dynamic range and less noise than more pixels.

Then you should switch your 5DSR with a 5D Mark IV ;)
5DC, 5DM3, 85 1.2L II, 80-200 2.8L, 100 2.8L IS, 14 2.8, 35 1.4, 75-300 IS, 135 1.8, 40STM, 24-85, Helios 44-2, Zeiss Lenses, and real cams like Zenza Bronica ETRSi or Fuji GX680

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2017, 02:33:59 PM »

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #88 on: September 06, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »
To tell the truth, I would rather have increased dynamic range and less noise than more pixels.

Well, yes, but that's what the rest of Canon's lineup is for. The 5Ds series is intended for maximum resolution. If you want low noise and high ISO there are other options.

On the other hand, as the 5DIV showed, the old relationship between noise and resolution isn't quite as clear these days as it once was (The 5DIV compares very favorably to the 1DXII despite the higher pixel count).

unfocused

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2017, 02:38:03 PM »
I hope the "Identical body to the EOS 5D Mark IV" part is not true. As a high resolution camera that is often used in live view on a tripod, an up-down tilting screen would be really useful.

+1

The 5Ds needs the economy of scale that comes with using the 5D body in order to remain competitive. I don't see Canon making any changes in the body that would require a different design and thus, higher costs.

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Re: Canon EOS 5DS R Mark II Talk [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: September 06, 2017, 02:38:03 PM »