June 19, 2018, 04:22:16 PM

Author Topic: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M  (Read 7665 times)

Dreamer

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5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« on: December 16, 2017, 08:35:40 PM »
Hi Guys

Geniune question from a mere enthusiast. Recently sold my 5D3 (great camera) with a view to upgrading - as phase detect and touchscreen functionality are things I really think are useful.

My dilemma, or question, to sound less dramatic is:

I've just heard that the reality of a mirrorless camera from Canon is now very possible in the new year (2018).  Does everyone think that, on balance of probabilities, this will be up to 5D3/4 quality (for ease i'll just call this 5D-M)???  I ask as I have a Panasonic G85 that I really love and really take every time I travel and just love it's functionality. I'm too lazy to lug my DLSR stuff around. 

If Canon go FF, do you think it will be with EF backwards compatibility, or will they continue to develop the M range of lenses to deal with FF???

Does anyone think that the 5D4 will be upgraded in the same year - or rather the following year - given the potential to release 5D-M in 2018.  In particular, raising the bar on their touchscreen to say OLED and perhaps articulation rather than fixed????

I know there will always be technological advancements and trying to keep up is fraught with problems - particularly to the hip pocket.  I guess my funds are limited, FF is my preference, but with millenial technology (read as cool stuff that is actually useful rather than making anybody a better photographer).  I guess i can wait a year and continue to use my M4T G85 which is a great little product.

Thanks for your time and all thoughts are appreciated

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5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« on: December 16, 2017, 08:35:40 PM »

slclick

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2017, 09:20:21 PM »
This is one of those posts where you will get the admonishments of how you can't shoot with a rumor, how no one really knows and it's all wild stabs in the dark, whether the flange will allow this or that, whether or not it will be based upon EF or another mount. On and on. If you have to have the latest and greatest, you will do so no matter what anyone says, right? But the 5D4 is a remarkable tool and you cannot go wrong with it even if a successor comes out. I personally don't see another 5D body until 2019. As for the M series, it's anyone's guess...not enough good info out there. Stay tuned...

Dreamer

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2017, 09:30:23 PM »
Thanks slckick - yeah I did wrestle with whether to post or not.  It's why I tried to emphasise, for those that also really care, what their best estimate of the balance of probabilities was.

I don't need the latest and greatest - but I think phase detect and a great reticulated rear OLED screen on say, a 5D4 or better sensor, will definitely see me through to the next 5+ years.  Really enjoyed my 5D3 - its a great camera, and by all reports, the 5D4 is similar.

I agree with you around the 5D4 - I would think it would be 2019-2020, judging by the 5D3 update that 5 yrs for a body seems to be the par now.

Thanks again for your thoughts
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sanj

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2017, 10:59:14 PM »
No one knows. Everyone wants to know.

I suspect it is just a matter of time. Till then you want to be without a camera?

Right now your choice is only 5d4

slclick

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #4 on: December 16, 2017, 11:02:42 PM »
Thanks slckick - yeah I did wrestle with whether to post or not.  It's why I tried to emphasise, for those that also really care, what their best estimate of the balance of probabilities was.

I don't need the latest and greatest - but I think phase detect and a great reticulated rear OLED screen on say, a 5D4 or better sensor, will definitely see me through to the next 5+ years.  Really enjoyed my 5D3 - its a great camera, and by all reports, the 5D4 is similar.

I agree with you around the 5D4 - I would think it would be 2019-2020, judging by the 5D3 update that 5 yrs for a body seems to be the par now.

Thanks again for your thoughts

As for me, I'll be milking my 5D3 for all it's worth. It's more camera than I will ever need or want and all I ever have to do to humble my G.A.S. is to look at all the amazing images from yesteryear shot with much less DR and other whiz bang features than what I have which I will never be able to duplicate.

Dreamer

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2017, 11:24:26 PM »
Thanks Sanj - I guess I can be without a FF for a short time.  Glass lasts 3 times longer than bodies from a tech perspective (rough not scientific number).  I have another camera that I find more than useful in the interim -  but it does lack some magic in the underlying picture that seems to come with the combo of FF and glass (perhaps its psycho sematic, but it doesn't matter if I find it to be real)

Thanks again also Slclick - you do make a great point its not gear that makes the photo.  I totally agree too - although suffer from mild GAS myself.  It's more the functionality that assists, rather than underpins, the creation of the shot.

Appreciate both your perspectives
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Don Haines

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 12:00:24 AM »
At some point there will be a Canon FF mirrorless. When, is everyone's guess.

What it will not be, is compatible with the M series of lenses..... If they designed for them, the camera would vignette like crazy, and effectively make it useless to have a FF sensor in it.... The lenses will either be EF, or they will have to invent a new mount.

A new mount, with a shorter flange distance, would make wide angle lenses a bit smaller, but with just about everything else the difference would be minimal. They could also develope a tiny body (like Sony) to use, but the problem with that is ergonomics. You need the real estate for the grip and the controls.... it would suffer ergonomicaly if made smaller than the 6D.

Also, you have to remember that for those people to which small size is paramount, no FF mirrorless is ever going to be able to compete with the M series of cameras and lenses. I can see a thriving market for timy mirrorless (M series) and a 5D sized FF mirrorless with EF lenses, but is there really room for something in the middle? Sort of like APS-H sensors, despite a few very vocal affictionados, there may not be enough of a market to make it financially viable.

In the meantime, if you can get along with what you have, fine..... but if you are waiting for something new and revolutionary, remember that Canon is very conservative and you may be waiting several years. I am also waiting for a FF mirrorless from Canon, and got a 6D2 to hold me through the wait. I suspect that I will be shooting with it for several more years.

Now we wait.
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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2017, 12:00:24 AM »

Dreamer

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2017, 12:14:11 AM »
At some point there will be a Canon FF mirrorless. When, is everyone's guess.

What it will not be, is compatible with the M series of lenses..... If they designed for them, the camera would vignette like crazy, and effectively make it useless to have a FF sensor in it.... The lenses will either be EF, or they will have to invent a new mount.

Thanks Don - I totally agree.  I was looking for further thoughts around this.  I hope it falls somewhere between the two in size - there has to be an equilibrium, as you say, from an ergonomics perspective.  I'm not interested in Sony.  Very happy with the Canon product and don't see an economic perspective in shifting nor a photographic one.



Also, you have to remember that for those people to which small size is paramount, no FF mirrorless is ever going to be able to compete with the M series of cameras and lenses. I can see a thriving market for timy mirrorless (M series) and a 5D sized FF mirrorless with EF lenses, but is there really room for something in the middle? Sort of like APS-H sensors, despite a few very vocal affictionados, there may not be enough of a market to make it financially viable.

Not sure - happy with the current dichotomy of the market.  I'm also happy with the size and functionality of the Panny G85 for this market.

In the meantime, if you can get along with what you have, fine..... but if you are waiting for something new and revolutionary, remember that Canon is very conservative and you may be waiting several years. I am also waiting for a FF mirrorless from Canon, and got a 6D2 to hold me through the wait. I suspect that I will be shooting with it for several more years.

Now we wait.
  Yep - I will wait for 2018 and see what happens - then if need be, revert to the 5D4 if it fails to meet expectations.  Thanks again for your perspective also
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 12:26:44 AM by Dreamer »
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Talys

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2017, 12:32:12 AM »
You could always get a 6DII.  There are some insanely good deals, it's by most accounts superior to the 5D3 on the image department, with most of the new Canon technology/convenience stuff, and also, with the articulating screen that you desire.

If you buy the 5D successor in the future, 6DII is still a useful backup or second body.

Personally, I'm very happy with mine!

Dreamer

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2017, 12:41:42 AM »
You could always get a 6DII.  There are some insanely good deals, it's by most accounts superior to the 5D3 on the image department, with most of the new Canon technology/convenience stuff, and also, with the articulating screen that you desire.

If you buy the 5D successor in the future, 6DII is still a useful backup or second body.

Personally, I'm very happy with mine!
[/i]

Thanks Talys - I did consider it - and I have no doubt its a great camera, but when i looked at the comparisons coldnt swing it.  Cant justify being in the two camera FF realm at the minute either

ps. BUT what i should also say, if the new Canon 5D-M could bring some of the 6D11 benefits with the 5D4 sensor or better, then i'm pretty much sold
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 12:48:10 AM by Dreamer »
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unfocused

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2017, 11:16:10 AM »
Trying to answer your specific questions


...I've just heard that the reality of a mirrorless camera from Canon is now very possible in the new year (2018).  Does everyone think that, on balance of probabilities, this will be up to 5D3/4 quality (for ease i'll just call this 5D-M)??? ...

Possible does not mean definite or even probable. Only Canon knows if and when they might offer a full frame mirrorless camera. If Canon does offer a mirrorless camera, it will be of high quality because only the lucrative enthusiast market cares.

If Canon go FF, do you think it will be with EF backwards compatibility, or will they continue to develop the M range of lenses to deal with FF???

Opinions vary on this. The last rumor (and it is only a rumor) is that Canon may offer two versions, one in traditional EF mount and one that is something else. I personally believe that Canon has too much invested in the EF mount not to make a full frame mirrorless in that mount.

Does anyone think that the 5D4 will be upgraded in the same year - or rather the following year - given the potential to release 5D-M in 2018.  In particular, raising the bar on their touchscreen to say OLED and perhaps articulation rather than fixed????

It is highly unlikely that we will see a 5DV before 2020.


tiggy@mac.com

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2017, 11:42:49 AM »
Remember that the current the current deals on the 6D2 are so crazy good, that you'll likely MAKE money selling it used six months from now. You can get the $2k camera for about $1.3k with grip, battery, etc. You could consider it a free rental. If something much better comes out, selling it for $1.5k is quite likely, as I bet Canon bring the price back up into the neighborhood of $100 or $200 below the introduction price.

There's very little downside to purchasing the 6D2 right now.

hendrik-sg

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 12:47:30 PM »
I would be careful predicting that the price for a actual model will go up significantly. this never happened as far as i know. And if they are sold now for huge discounts in big numbers, there will be many used items abailable after some time.

Maybe the cameras are not selling as expected, maybe they do all to fight against decreasing market, both are no indications that the prise will go up very soon and very much.

It's electronics and consumer goods in combination, both not known for increasing prices during product cycle. Buy it if you have use for it and can afford some loss....

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2017, 12:47:30 PM »

Dreamer

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2017, 05:05:52 PM »
Thanks Unfocussed - yep pretty much agree.  This speculation is all on the balance of probabilities based on available knowledge to date and competitor movements.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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rjbray01

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 05:45:31 PM »
Hi

for what its worth - and I don't think my opinions are in the majority - I would very strongly recommend you try using a mirrorless camera if you haven't already.

I have a 5Div and an M5.  Gosh what a difference.

Its not the picture quality which concerns me - its the viewfinder quality.

When using the 5Div obviously you are just looking through lenses and a mirror - the picture quality in the viewfinder is fantastic ... and when you pan the lens the picture moves just like when you turn your head.

With a mirrorless camera - or at least with the M5 - the picture quality is poor and the lag when moving the camera is terrible.  Also the recovery time after you take a picture is terrible - and if you want to chimp its even worse.

My view - and I get the impression that I'm perhaps in a small minority these days - is that mirrorless cameras have got a quite a way to go before the viewfinders can match their optical counterparts.

Canon have filed patents for some sort of hybrid arrangement - if that comes out then we might have the best of both worlds - but I'm not technical enought to understand what's really going on there.

I hope that's of some help - if not then apologies.

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Re: 5DIV v 5DV v 5D-M
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2017, 05:45:31 PM »