May 27, 2018, 02:15:33 PM

Author Topic: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera  (Read 38690 times)

Tugela

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #180 on: January 29, 2018, 07:59:46 PM »
####  Canon  ####

I hope you are reading this.

You guys need to stop short cutting us.  I've been a long time loyal canon user.  Give us 4k full frame with usable codec.  Make dual native ISO.  Make it a user friendly Hybrid for photo and video.  Add 5axis stabilizer.  MUST be EF mount, otherwise I won't invest in a newer mount, and newer lenses.  Make C-log as standard, or have a very good dynamic range.   Must be Touch AF, phase detect, not contrast detect.  Your lack of innovation makes me want to buy a Sony or Panasonic.

1. Full Frame with EF mounts
2. 4K full Frame with "usable" codecs @ 60fps
3. Pro-res, C-log as standard not upgrades
4. Dual native ISO
5. 20-ish Megapixel with great Low light performance.
6. Touch Autofocus
7. Articulating LCD Screen
8. 5 axis stablizer
9. 12 FPS
10. Focus Peak, zebra, etc.
11. 4:2:2 - 10bit video
12. Weatherseal
13.  High Flash sync maybe up to 1000/s without HSS
14.  Timecode
15.  Better phone app
16.  Faster Wifi/bluetooth
17.  New touchscreen menu system, similar to any modern phone
18.  New digital LCD on top Screen.  The old style is outdated since the 80's
19.  Big Battery life
20.  Hybrid EVF with optical viewfinder

A lot of that is not possible without a high performance thermally efficient processor. So far Canon appear to be way behind the competition in that regard, so don't expect anything cutting edge from them. If they do make a FF mirrorless, it will likely be very conservative in specs based on the capabilities of current DIGIC processors.

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #180 on: January 29, 2018, 07:59:46 PM »

Tugela

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #181 on: January 29, 2018, 08:03:57 PM »
I was hoping that they would have been asking these questions a couple years ago.  This means that a pro mirrorless camera is still years away.

Based on the story that just dropped today here at CR:
http://www.canonrumors.com/bcn-rankings-are-out-canon-continues-to-dominate-dslrs-further-growth-in-mirrorless/

They remain dominant in SLRs and lens sales, and they are #2 in mirrorless... to an m43 company.

Apparently not having FF mirrorless isn't hurting Canon all that much at all. 

- A

BCN is 50% of Japan, not worldwide.

When it comes to FF offerings (where the high margins are) Canon has zero presence. All of their products in that market segment are DSLRs, which are rapidly falling in overall sales volumes. MILCs on the other hand are slowly picking up in volume. The writing is on the wall, those trends are NOT going to reverse.

privatebydesign

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #182 on: January 29, 2018, 08:37:59 PM »
4K video

Seriously? From what I had seen recently pro video content creators working with the sub cinema class cameras are turning away from 4k. They do want high quality 4:4:2 high frame rate 1080, preferably with a good Log profile, they also want Canon color science and flip out touch screens, good battery life and unconstrained internal and external recording depending on their specific use in any given scenario.

As I have seen 4k is becoming less well accepted in anything but a truthfully pro production, in which case the proposed camera isn't a primary choice. Yes 4K is becoming more popular, just not in the market segment this new line of cameras will occupy.

That is why no new cameras include 4K video any more. Only HD.

 ::) Did you seriously not even read the second paragraph?

For low and mid level video cameras there are specs far more important and relevant to those users than 4k. That doesn't mean everybody doesn't 'want it' on every visual recording device from phones on up, just that people who are serious about actually using video features want other bullet points crossed off first.
Too often we lose sight of the fact that photography is about capturing light, if we have the ability to take control of that light then we grow exponentially as photographers. More often than not the image is not about lens speed, sensor size, DR, MP's or AF, it is about the light.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #183 on: January 29, 2018, 08:45:02 PM »
I was hoping that they would have been asking these questions a couple years ago.  This means that a pro mirrorless camera is still years away.

Based on the story that just dropped today here at CR:
http://www.canonrumors.com/bcn-rankings-are-out-canon-continues-to-dominate-dslrs-further-growth-in-mirrorless/

They remain dominant in SLRs and lens sales, and they are #2 in mirrorless... to an m43 company.

Apparently not having FF mirrorless isn't hurting Canon all that much at all. 

- A

BCN is 50% of Japan, not worldwide.

When it comes to FF offerings (where the high margins are) Canon has zero presence. All of their products in that market segment are DSLRs, which are rapidly falling in overall sales volumes. MILCs on the other hand are slowly picking up in volume. The writing is on the wall, those trends are NOT going to reverse.

Thom Hogan, who's data are generally reliable, indicated that Canon is #2 in MILCs globally.  Given that only Sony (and Leica, in essentially irrelevant numbers) sell FF MILC, it's evident that FF is niche segment of the MILC market.
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Talys

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #184 on: January 30, 2018, 12:09:01 AM »

When it comes to FF offerings (where the high margins are) Canon has zero presence. All of their products in that market segment are DSLRs, which are rapidly falling in overall sales volumes. MILCs on the other hand are slowly picking up in volume. The writing is on the wall, those trends are NOT going to reverse.

Thom Hogan, who's data are generally reliable, indicated that Canon is #2 in MILCs globally.  Given that only Sony (and Leica, in essentially irrelevant numbers) sell FF MILC, it's evident that FF is niche segment of the MILC market.

I will bet dollars to donuts that M5 and M6 are extremely profitable cameras.  Those things are $1,000+ kits.

Also, the economies of scale are a lot better for APSC than full frame.  Regardless of brand, APSC cameras are cheaper to make because they make a lot more of them than FF's.

MayaTlab

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #185 on: January 31, 2018, 07:09:13 AM »

I will bet dollars to donuts that M5 and M6 are extremely profitable cameras.


That may be profitable, but at least in France or Germany they are very, very poor sellers. Shops have started to stop stocking them, they're now special order items in various shops in both countries. An example ("sur commande" means "special order") in the photo linked.

The M5/M6 were also heavily discounted here recently, while the 80D wasn't.

Same applies to the 5DS / 5DSR.

That same shop stocks other comparable mirrorless models from other manufacturers.

I have very little doubt though that the story is different in the rest of the world.

So at least where I live the M5 isn't drawing much attention. The recipe didn't work. My guess is that quite a lot of it has to do with the EF-M lens lineup.

Azathoth

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #186 on: January 31, 2018, 09:48:07 AM »
- 5DmkIV sensor
- DPAF that works like on the M5
- EF mount
- Flippy tilty screen
- Decent built in EVF
- Weather sealing
- Focus peaking
- Decent battery life similiar to the A9/A7riii
- Could have a Body similar to the M5
- Decent price ?  :)

PS:
- No need for video

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #186 on: January 31, 2018, 09:48:07 AM »

Talys

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #187 on: February 04, 2018, 12:07:13 AM »

I will bet dollars to donuts that M5 and M6 are extremely profitable cameras.


That may be profitable, but at least in France or Germany they are very, very poor sellers. Shops have started to stop stocking them, they're now special order items in various shops in both countries. An example ("sur commande" means "special order") in the photo linked.

The M5/M6 were also heavily discounted here recently, while the 80D wasn't.

Same applies to the 5DS / 5DSR.

Wow, really?  M5/M6 are good sellers here.  Every camera store has them.

I'm not quete sure I get it though.  If Canon is the #2 MILC manufacturer, are not most of those sales of M5/M6?

MayaTlab

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #188 on: February 04, 2018, 04:33:23 AM »

I will bet dollars to donuts that M5 and M6 are extremely profitable cameras.


That may be profitable, but at least in France or Germany they are very, very poor sellers. Shops have started to stop stocking them, they're now special order items in various shops in both countries. An example ("sur commande" means "special order") in the photo linked.

The M5/M6 were also heavily discounted here recently, while the 80D wasn't.

Same applies to the 5DS / 5DSR.

Wow, really?  M5/M6 are good sellers here.  Every camera store has them.

I'm not quete sure I get it though.  If Canon is the #2 MILC manufacturer, are not most of those sales of M5/M6?

Europe and America aren't a huge part of mirrorless sales, so I guess that it's entirely possible for Canon to still be able to claim the second spot. Besides I only commented on France and Germany, because that's what I know.

But yep. Stores such as Digit-photo.fr are basically the French equivalent to Adorama : specialised, reasonably high volume shops. If a camera is a special order, it's because it sells sufficiently poorly that they don't want to stock it. In Germany the M5 has recently had a big price cut to help sales. It's now available for €700 or so, vs. €950 or so for the 80D. These are fairly good indications that the Canon M5 simply isn't flying off the shelves in these countries.

Why, I don't know. The lens lineup could be a problem. There is a lack of well-balanced primes (think : Fuji F2 lineup, which is a major seller), for example. But then it isn't exactly like the EF APSC DSLRs are endowed with a good lens lineup either, so... my gut feeling is that something else is lacking.

My guess is that a repeat of the M5, but just with a larger sensor, may not work here in France or Germany. Even using the EF mount may not provide sufficient relief when it comes to lenses, as, for example, the most popular primes (middle range 50s and 85s), which also are in terms of size and weight the most relevant ones for a more compact mirrorless camera, aren't exactly stellar in Canon's lineup.

scyrene

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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #189 on: February 04, 2018, 11:37:25 AM »
So at least where I live the M5 isn't drawing much attention. The recipe didn't work. My guess is that quite a lot of it has to do with the EF-M lens lineup.

Given the vast majority of ILC camera buyers never get a second lens (and even fewer buy more than two), I'm not sure that is likely.
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Re: Canon Asking Select Professionals What They Want in a Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #189 on: February 04, 2018, 11:37:25 AM »