May 27, 2018, 06:18:22 AM

Author Topic: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+  (Read 11920 times)

LSXPhotog

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 09:45:39 PM »
I kinda want to hear about a new M-series lens that isn't a slow aperture. But a refresh of the affordable prime line for full-frame would be pretty cool.
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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 09:45:39 PM »

Chaitanya

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2018, 10:24:12 PM »
Where is the update to 50mm Compact macro or 180mm Macro? I can understand why canon is delaying updating 180mm as it is a specialist lens but why not update that short tele macro lens? There are rumors of Nikon already updating their AF-S 60mm Macro with new upgrades and its quite baffling why Canon is neglecting that lens.

HaroldC3

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2018, 10:25:01 PM »
Release 3 fast m primes (like they did the 3 ts lenses) and they would make a lot of noise.

slclick

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2018, 10:32:11 PM »
I kinda want to hear about a new M-series lens that isn't a slow aperture. But a refresh of the affordable prime line for full-frame would be pretty cool.

complete the M prime trinity

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Mac Duderson

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #19 on: January 15, 2018, 11:11:51 PM »
Canon PLEASE make some noise with a 50mm 1.4 IS and 28mm 1.4 BR.  ;D 8) ;D

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 01:20:10 AM »
that theory was debunked the first time this came up. it's shipping with EF-M lenses, so it's not some type of crossover system.

I never said crossover or Rebel sans mirror with a full EF-S mount.  I mean Canon might decide to offer an EF-S and EF-M of similar specs / trim-level / price to be sold side by side rather than as these different Rebel & EOS M ecosystems.  Batteries are different, lenses are different, sure, but if FPS / MP / Wireless / tilty-flippy were similar and all had a common ergonomic / interface language, the EF-M could someday replace the EF-S version.

Then after one generation of overlap, the EF-S variant dies off and only the EF-M one gets refreshed.  Start low with the 1300D-like camera market position, then do Rebels, then XXD, etc.

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Nik

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2018, 01:20:35 AM »
At least two new lenses

Let the one be an EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 update, please! :)

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2018, 01:20:35 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2018, 01:26:29 AM »
I would argue the M5 is already a M mount equivalent to a Rebel. 

Spec-wise, sure, but the technology, handling, accessories, etc. are all quite different.  Hypothetically, if Canon today said here's your next Rebel and it was effectively an M5, it would feel a little odd / left field to the market. 

What I was talking about before was effectively rebranding the EOS M line to walk very closely in spec, button layout, features (with obv mirrorless differences), etc. to specific SLRs in the line and sell them side by side, i.e, an 800D and an 800Dm, and 80D and 80Dm, etc. -- one with the mirror, one without.  Sell them side by side for a generation, and then when it comes time to refresh that line, only the mirrorless one is refreshed.

- A

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2018, 01:46:21 AM »

"What I have found odd is the EOS M50 being called the “Kiss M” in certification. I don’t recall any other EOS M camera getting the KISS designation in Japan. It could be something, it’s probably nothing."


 - CR Guy

Potentially, that's a very big deal. 

If mirrorless is going to retire almost all of the SLRs someday (other than the most demanding product lines), an 'overlap generation' like a Rebel SLR and Rebel mirrorless sold side by side makes a ton of sense. 

that theory was debunked the first time this came up. it's shipping with EF-M lenses, so it's not some type of crossover system.

I think you missed the point.  Yes, it's an EOS M camera and part of the current M lineup, taking EF-M lenses.  But the name is important.  'Kiss' is the Japanese equivalent of the North American designation, 'Rebel' – the nameplate for the entry-level SLRs, and later for entry-level dSLRs.  If Canon is applying the Kiss moniker to an EOS M camera, that indicates they're 'mainstreaming' the M platform, at least in Japan (where it would make sense to do that, initially).
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Canoneer

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2018, 08:40:32 AM »
A 5DS II would be a welcome announcement. Especially with that fabled 120MP sensor Canon has been teasing us with for years now. Even if they released it as a 96MP (12,000 x 8,000) sensor it would still be amazing, especially with a 4:1 oversampling option for a 24MP (6,000 x 4,000) non-mosaic output.

jolyonralph

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2018, 10:06:09 AM »
Agreed.  When I read this, my biggest question is what mount?  To overlap, I assume we are talking about an EFS/EF mount Rebel M.  Not an EF-m mount. 

I would argue the M5 is already a M mount equivalent to a Rebel.  So, this could be "big news." The first EF mount mirrorless camera from Canon.  Not surprisingly, it would and APS-C sensor.

Don't try to read too much into the Rebel name. 

The Eos M50 will be an EF-M mount camera.  There is absolutely NO WAY that Canon would confuse the market by producing a M-branded camera without the M mount.  The term "rebel" is a regional marketing term, nothing more, that presumably can be applied to different types of camera depending on how they want to use their brand.

I very much doubt we'll see an EF-S mount mirrorless camera, ever.  I guess it's possible a 7D Mark IV could be this, but I suspect that the EF-S mount will slowly wither and die as they migrate over to EF-M for the low end.
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ahsanford

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #26 on: January 16, 2018, 11:03:42 AM »
I think you missed the point.  Yes, it's an EOS M camera and part of the current M lineup, taking EF-M lenses.  But the name is important.  'Kiss' is the Japanese equivalent of the North American designation, 'Rebel' – the nameplate for the entry-level SLRs, and later for entry-level dSLRs.  If Canon is applying the Kiss moniker to an EOS M camera, that indicates they're 'mainstreaming' the M platform, at least in Japan (where it would make sense to do that, initially).

Yep.  This is potentially a big deal symbolically.  If EOS M is going to replace Rebel SLRs someday, renaming it to Kiss/Rebel would logically be part of that process.  I'm not saying "It's finally happening -- the great exodus from mirrors!" if this name turns out to be correct.  But one can't imagine mirrors simply going away on a product line that has been a cash cow for Canon without the mirrorless line walking towards SLRs in a symbolic fashion.

...or Canon just thinks it will make a few more bucks in Japan.  ;D  They've done some nutty branding things in the past that seemed to have little justification (760D --> 77D), so maybe they are just being inconsistent/unpredictable here.

- A


neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »
They've done some nutty branding things in the past that seemed to have little justification (760D --> 77D)

EOS 77D...don't you mean the EOS 9000D?   ;)
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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #27 on: January 16, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #28 on: January 16, 2018, 11:37:19 AM »
The Eos M50 will be an EF-M mount camera.  There is absolutely NO WAY that Canon would confuse the market by producing a M-branded camera without the M mount.  The term "rebel" is a regional marketing term, nothing more, that presumably can be applied to different types of camera depending on how they want to use their brand.

I very much doubt we'll see an EF-S mount mirrorless camera, ever.  I guess it's possible a 7D Mark IV could be this, but I suspect that the EF-S mount will slowly wither and die as they migrate over to EF-M for the low end.

Agree with this completely.  EF-S mirrorless just doesn't make sense like full EF mirrorless would for full frame.

I could be wrong, but I'm assuming:

  • EF-S has been left in a state of semi-neglect (on the higher end stuff) and Canon really only has a handful of EF-S* lenses considered vital to competitiveness in the Rebel space.  The upside of this is the EF-S is 'rebuildable' in an EF-M future far far far more easily and economically than the same effort would take in EF.

  • Crop owners own a lesser number and much lower value of EF-S glass than FF users have of EF glass.   So the pain of a mount migration (with new products) / must use an adaptor (with old products) from EF-S to EF-M won't be nearly as crushing an ask.

*Both mounts now have:  slow UWA zoom, slow standard zoom, slow 18-135/150 zoom, 22/24 mm pancake, wide illuminated IS macro, 55-2XX tele

Only EF-S has:  high end standard zoom (17-55 2.8.), premium but not high end zooms (15-85, 17-85 with USM), a comparable-to-FF-100 macro -- and of all of those, I only see the EF-S 60mm macro ever getting refreshed.

So EF-M has almost already cloned / backfilled its mount with the guts of EF-S.

- A
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:01:17 PM by ahsanford »

aceflibble

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2018, 12:45:24 PM »
EF-S 60mm is unlikely (note I said "unlikely", not "impossible") to be remade any time soon as it's never been a particularly big-seller and they probably wouldn't make their money back on the R&D. The 180mm is in a similar situation. The two 100mm macros dominate in sales as far as Canon macros go, by such a degree it's a wonder that Canon keep making the 60 and 180 at all.
(Inb4 someone with no sense of perspective says "but I use it, so it must be a big deal!")

EF-S as a whole made a lot of sense and did well for Canon previously, but as sales of APS-C SLR drop off, there really is less and less use for it. With older 35mm bodies becoming cheaper and more available to beginners/lower budgets (a used 5D2 is now what, £550 or so? About the same price as a 200D/SL2 and only a little more than a 1300D), and mirrorless eating up pretty much all of the cheaper market anyway (and obviously taking big chunks out of the high-end market, too), making brand new lenses just for APS-C SLR doesn't make much sense. At the pro/semi-pro market, bodies make little profit and it's all about the lens sales; at the cheaper end, lenses barely break even and though bodies still make a profit, it's becoming less and less each year. If there are any new EF-S lenses from here on, you can be sure they'll be simple (more pancake primes and 'kit zooms', for instance) and/or simple relaunching of existing designs. (e.g. if production can be made cheaper by switching a casing material and moving factory, they might do that and relaunch the lens; it won't be a fully new EF-S lens, though.)

 
Be prepared for EF-M to take up the space EF-S used to, and otherwise doubling down on higher-end EF lenses, which is where the big profits still are. (Though even that may slide as Sigma and Tamron take a bigger and bigger market share and provide significant enough competition to make Canon lower their premiums.)

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Re: Canon Was Quiet at CES 2018, Expect More Noise Next Month Ahead of CP+
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2018, 12:45:24 PM »