February 18, 2018, 12:43:54 AM

Author Topic: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears  (Read 3777 times)

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Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« on: February 07, 2018, 01:17:11 PM »
We haven’t heard of a follow-up to the Canon XC15, but there’s little doubt that we will see one some time.

The first specification list for the XC20 has appeared at New Camera.

Canon XC20 Rumored Specification:

  • UHD 4K Output up to 60 fps
  • 8MP, 1″ CMOS Sensor
  • Dual-Pixel CMOS Autofocus Feature
  • DIGIC DV 6 Processors
  • 5-Axis Optical Image Stabilization
  • Wide Dynamic Range
  • Live Stream/FTP/Remote App via Wi-Fi

We’ll try to confirm if and when a follow-up to the XC15 is coming.

« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:43:25 AM by Canon Rumors »
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Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« on: February 07, 2018, 01:17:11 PM »

transpo1

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 07:27:20 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.

bhf3737

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 08:13:12 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

MaxDiesel

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 08:31:48 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.

This update needs at minimum a non variable f-stop lens, f/2.8 minimum. If they do this, they will have a winner.
What your asking for is basically the C100 line. That’s not what this is designed to be.

I have a feeling “patents” they will give us a hybrid “camcorder” of sorts soon, it won’t be the cinema line, more prosumer.

transpo1

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 08:32:27 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

Well,

1) Canon is the only manufacturer with THAT form factor, so the answer to that question is no if you include that. However, the GH5/s does 4K 60p and so does the 1DXII.

2) Just because no one is doing it does not mean no one SHOULD do it. This is against Canon’s conservative mentality, but it would be a great way to create a buzz around their video products again (at least, on the consumer / prosumer end).

bhf3737

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 08:58:01 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

Well,

1) Canon is the only manufacturer with THAT form factor, so the answer to that question is no if you include that. However, the GH5/s does 4K 60p and so does the 1DXII.

2) Just because no one is doing it does not mean no one SHOULD do it. This is against Canon’s conservative mentality, but it would be a great way to create a buzz around their video products again (at least, on the consumer / prosumer end).
By form factor, I meant still camera form as opposed to a dedicated video camera (ENG video cam, etc.).
Although GH5/s does impressive 4K 60p, it has micro-four-third sensor, quite smaller that APS-C and full frame and has crop factor of 2 compared to full-frame, which actually reads smaller area than 5D IV's 1.74 crop.
I agree that some company should stand up and make it happen.
Seems no other company has done it yet, except Canon, as you mentioned.     

mkabi

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 10:12:44 PM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

Well,

1) Canon is the only manufacturer with THAT form factor, so the answer to that question is no if you include that. However, the GH5/s does 4K 60p and so does the 1DXII.

2) Just because no one is doing it does not mean no one SHOULD do it. This is against Canon’s conservative mentality, but it would be a great way to create a buzz around their video products again (at least, on the consumer / prosumer end).
By form factor, I meant still camera form as opposed to a dedicated video camera (ENG video cam, etc.).
Although GH5/s does impressive 4K 60p, it has micro-four-third sensor, quite smaller that APS-C and full frame and has crop factor of 2 compared to full-frame, which actually reads smaller area than 5D IV's 1.74 crop.
I agree that some company should stand up and make it happen.
Seems no other company has done it yet, except Canon, as you mentioned.   

I don’t know what your argument is here...
But, just for clarification...
-only the 1dx mark 2 does DCI 4K up to 60p with 1.35 crop from the FF sensor, but it’s 8 bit 4:2:2
-the 5D mark iv also has DCI 4K, but not 60p only up to 30p and 8bit 4:2:2 with 1.74 crop
-the 1dx mark 2 also has 1080p at 120fps where the 5Div maxes out at 60p on 1080p
-the GH5 has UHD at 60p and DCI 4K at 30p and depending on resolution + frame rate can do 10bit 4:2:2
-the GH5 has 6K (open-gate) anamorphic video (this is the most interesting thing for me)
-the GH5 has 1080p at 180fps
-the GH5S has DCI 4K at 60fps and better low-light, also has more 10bit 4:2:2 options but loses the 6K anamorphic.
-the GH5S has 1080p at 240fps
-both GH5 and GH5S are micro 4/3rd sensors, which is smaller than APS-C, but much much bigger than the 1inch sensor mentioned above.
-the GH5S has a slightly bigger sensor than GH5 - GH5 has 2.0 crop and GH5S has 1.86 crop. BTW, the GH4 has a 2.3 crop... it had something to do with how the sensor was being read.
-the GH5 has IBIS, whereas the GH5S loses the IBIS.
-speaking of crop factors, it really doesn’t matter for the GH5/GH5S, because look at their lens lineup... you will find lenses like the 12-35 f/2.8, 35-100 f/2.8, 42.5 f/1.7 - those focal lengths remind you of any Canon equivalents?
-even if you want to use your Canon lenses on the GH5/GH5S - metabones makes speedboosters that make the crop factors 1.2 and 1.1 (respectively) which is not only way better than the 5D mark iv but also better than the 1dx mark 2
« Last Edit: February 07, 2018, 10:19:21 PM by mkabi »
Bah...

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 10:12:44 PM »

bhf3737

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2018, 01:56:33 AM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

Well,

1) Canon is the only manufacturer with THAT form factor, so the answer to that question is no if you include that. However, the GH5/s does 4K 60p and so does the 1DXII.

2) Just because no one is doing it does not mean no one SHOULD do it. This is against Canon’s conservative mentality, but it would be a great way to create a buzz around their video products again (at least, on the consumer / prosumer end).
By form factor, I meant still camera form as opposed to a dedicated video camera (ENG video cam, etc.).
Although GH5/s does impressive 4K 60p, it has micro-four-third sensor, quite smaller that APS-C and full frame and has crop factor of 2 compared to full-frame, which actually reads smaller area than 5D IV's 1.74 crop.
I agree that some company should stand up and make it happen.
Seems no other company has done it yet, except Canon, as you mentioned.   

I don’t know what your argument is here...
But, just for clarification...
-only the 1dx mark 2 does DCI 4K up to 60p with 1.35 crop from the FF sensor, but it’s 8 bit 4:2:2
-the 5D mark iv also has DCI 4K, but not 60p only up to 30p and 8bit 4:2:2 with 1.74 crop
-the 1dx mark 2 also has 1080p at 120fps where the 5Div maxes out at 60p on 1080p
-the GH5 has UHD at 60p and DCI 4K at 30p and depending on resolution + frame rate can do 10bit 4:2:2
-the GH5 has 6K (open-gate) anamorphic video (this is the most interesting thing for me)
-the GH5 has 1080p at 180fps
-the GH5S has DCI 4K at 60fps and better low-light, also has more 10bit 4:2:2 options but loses the 6K anamorphic.
-the GH5S has 1080p at 240fps
-both GH5 and GH5S are micro 4/3rd sensors, which is smaller than APS-C, but much much bigger than the 1inch sensor mentioned above.
-the GH5S has a slightly bigger sensor than GH5 - GH5 has 2.0 crop and GH5S has 1.86 crop. BTW, the GH4 has a 2.3 crop... it had something to do with how the sensor was being read.
-the GH5 has IBIS, whereas the GH5S loses the IBIS.
-speaking of crop factors, it really doesn’t matter for the GH5/GH5S, because look at their lens lineup... you will find lenses like the 12-35 f/2.8, 35-100 f/2.8, 42.5 f/1.7 - those focal lengths remind you of any Canon equivalents?
-even if you want to use your Canon lenses on the GH5/GH5S - metabones makes speedboosters that make the crop factors 1.2 and 1.1 (respectively) which is not only way better than the 5D mark iv but also better than the 1dx mark 2
Interesting. Crop factors doesn't matter. Thanks for pointing out that we can use smaller sensor and get longer equivalent focal length via the native lenses. And also forget the laws of physics, light gathering and noise level, too. Interesting indeed.

BurningPlatform

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2018, 04:19:05 AM »

And also forget the laws of physics, light gathering and noise level, too. Interesting indeed.

Actually there is a point. The "speed boosters" are effectively wide angle converters, they concentrate the light that would be lost outside the MFT sensor area to the sensor. With a perfect "speed booster" you would get the same amount of light on the MFT sensor than on a full frame sensor. And if your FF sensor does cropped video, you get more light for each video frame with MFT.

This sounded like magic to me first, but it is really just physics.

9VIII

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2018, 04:23:37 AM »
The reason the GH5 is still so compelling to videographers is that those people are generally very tolerant of image noise.
Kind of like photographers 20 years ago (or professionals who know what they’re doing today).
And again, Speed Boosters come with a big hit to IQ (I have no interest in using one on with my Fuji, there’s enough native wide/fast glass now), but that’s not such a big deal with video people.

This is an equally good argument for 1” sensors.
Ironically there should really be more 12 Megapixel bodies on the market (native 4k sensor at the 3:2 aspect ratio), it’s amazing how virtually nothing gives the best image with full sensor readout right now, and 4K “seems” to be one of the biggest selling points on many of these products.

I’d even be willing to try M4/3 if something like the G9 didn’t cost nearly as much as a Full Frame camera. The failure of systems like the Nikon 1 is they were trying to compete head to head larger formats but with the same features and price. Panasonic and Olympus are only surviving now because the video functions they offer are equivalent to much more expensive professional equipment, and all the APS-C makers are are primarily photography focused and don’t try to compete in that space at the same time, but as soon as you get competent 4K coming out of larger sensors the days of M4/3 will be numbered.

brianftpc

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 05:44:51 AM »
But will it need a cfast 2.0 card to do 4k 60p. If so then you will need a card half the price of the camera for 1 hour of video.

roxics

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 10:37:42 AM »
How I see this series of cameras:

Potential Customer
"I'd like a inexpensive DSLR, something under $2000 that does decent 4K recording."

Canon
"How about this camera with a 1" sensor and non-removable lens?"

Potential Customer
"Um..."

mkabi

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 10:55:30 AM »
Well, 4K 60p would be something. Now try it with an EF or EF-M mount and APS-C Sensor.
Do you know of any camera, any brand, in this form factor, with APS-C or lager sensor, that can shoot internal 4K 60P? Just curious.
Reading forums, it seems that the camera that everyone talks about and compares new offerings with does record internal 4K, 60P, 4:2:2, 10 bit. But no one is producing that "unicorn".

Well,

1) Canon is the only manufacturer with THAT form factor, so the answer to that question is no if you include that. However, the GH5/s does 4K 60p and so does the 1DXII.

2) Just because no one is doing it does not mean no one SHOULD do it. This is against Canon’s conservative mentality, but it would be a great way to create a buzz around their video products again (at least, on the consumer / prosumer end).
By form factor, I meant still camera form as opposed to a dedicated video camera (ENG video cam, etc.).
Although GH5/s does impressive 4K 60p, it has micro-four-third sensor, quite smaller that APS-C and full frame and has crop factor of 2 compared to full-frame, which actually reads smaller area than 5D IV's 1.74 crop.
I agree that some company should stand up and make it happen.
Seems no other company has done it yet, except Canon, as you mentioned.   

I don’t know what your argument is here...
But, just for clarification...
-only the 1dx mark 2 does DCI 4K up to 60p with 1.35 crop from the FF sensor, but it’s 8 bit 4:2:2
-the 5D mark iv also has DCI 4K, but not 60p only up to 30p and 8bit 4:2:2 with 1.74 crop
-the 1dx mark 2 also has 1080p at 120fps where the 5Div maxes out at 60p on 1080p
-the GH5 has UHD at 60p and DCI 4K at 30p and depending on resolution + frame rate can do 10bit 4:2:2
-the GH5 has 6K (open-gate) anamorphic video (this is the most interesting thing for me)
-the GH5 has 1080p at 180fps
-the GH5S has DCI 4K at 60fps and better low-light, also has more 10bit 4:2:2 options but loses the 6K anamorphic.
-the GH5S has 1080p at 240fps
-both GH5 and GH5S are micro 4/3rd sensors, which is smaller than APS-C, but much much bigger than the 1inch sensor mentioned above.
-the GH5S has a slightly bigger sensor than GH5 - GH5 has 2.0 crop and GH5S has 1.86 crop. BTW, the GH4 has a 2.3 crop... it had something to do with how the sensor was being read.
-the GH5 has IBIS, whereas the GH5S loses the IBIS.
-speaking of crop factors, it really doesn’t matter for the GH5/GH5S, because look at their lens lineup... you will find lenses like the 12-35 f/2.8, 35-100 f/2.8, 42.5 f/1.7 - those focal lengths remind you of any Canon equivalents?
-even if you want to use your Canon lenses on the GH5/GH5S - metabones makes speedboosters that make the crop factors 1.2 and 1.1 (respectively) which is not only way better than the 5D mark iv but also better than the 1dx mark 2
Interesting. Crop factors doesn't matter. Thanks for pointing out that we can use smaller sensor and get longer equivalent focal length via the native lenses. And also forget the laws of physics, light gathering and noise level, too. Interesting indeed.

Is that the go-to phrase in these photography forums, if you don't understand something? Cause its really clichéd.

In any case, I'm not claiming to know better.... but you are.... so I say that you take it up with Panasonic Engineers. Go argue with them that they aren't obeying "the laws of physics, light gathering and noise levels..." boo hoo hoo...

Because, they created these lenses (not me):

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304868-REG/panasonic_h_hsa12035_lumix_g_x_vario.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1304869-REG/panasonic_h_hsa35100_lumix_g_x_vario.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1023336-REG/panasonic_leica_dg_nocticron_42_5mm.html/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAh_DTBRCTARIsABlT9MYUqDgO64up3DRnZqNj6JDlJrMjGD6to8nDajcTMlsP8bHLP6oHpJEaAkJDEALw_wcB

Editted to add: The link for Panasonic's 42.5mm is for the 1.2 not the 1.7 (they have one of those too). And, thats their 85mm - FF equivalent lens (btw, equivalency is also outlined in the links). Ofcourse, Canon has a larger lens lineup, but the question is... why do you care if Canon has a larger lens lineup? Are you going to buy every single one? Just the important ones right? Just the ones you can afford right?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 11:03:12 AM by mkabi »
Bah...

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 10:55:30 AM »

rrcphoto

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 11:12:58 AM »
How I see this series of cameras:

Potential Customer
"I'd like a inexpensive DSLR, something under $2000 that does decent 4K recording."

Canon
"How about this camera with a 1" sensor and non-removable lens?"

Potential Customer
"Um..."

Right, because that's really the market this camera is aiming at.  ::)

dp3294

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2018, 11:56:39 AM »
How I see this series of cameras:

Potential Customer
"I'd like a inexpensive DSLR, something under $2000 that does decent 4K recording."

Canon
"How about this camera with a 1" sensor and non-removable lens?"

Potential Customer
"Um..."

Different tools for different jobs. A camcorder and a DSLR are two different things. Those who want the DSLR would love to have the 90D with 4K to satisfy that. But there are others who can use something such as the XC20 also.

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Re: Canon XC20 Coming Soon? The First Specification List Appears
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2018, 11:56:39 AM »