June 23, 2018, 11:45:31 PM

Author Topic: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]  (Read 32496 times)

3kramd5

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »
HOLODECK! End simulation!!!!!!!!

omg.
[/perfect]

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #105 on: March 13, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »

Talys

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #106 on: March 13, 2018, 11:21:36 AM »
Awwww, c'mon.  It's a rumor site :)  This kind of stuff has its entertainment value  ;D

ewg963

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #107 on: March 13, 2018, 11:47:52 AM »
What is a "top down" LCD? Is it an LCD, which is on top of the camera? Would you want to have one, with a mirrorless?

Yes, that's what it is.  Leica SL has it, as do Fuji GFX and X-H1.  Instant review of settings without having to look though the camera.  It's better to have it than to not have it.

If Canon decides to do FF mirrorless, they will very likely make a better camera than Sony.
It will be more durable than Sony from what I'm hearing that the A7RIII doesn't take the lumps and bumps like a 1D and 5D Canon.
1DX, 5D Mark III, 5D Mark II, 16-35mm f/4L, 24-70mm f/2.8L, 24-105mm f/4L, 70-200mm f/2.8L , 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, 100-400mmf/4.0-5.6L, 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8, 85mm f/1.2L, 100mm f/2.8L, f 135mm f/2L, 580EX II, 600EX-RT

HarryFilm

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #108 on: March 13, 2018, 08:42:01 PM »
P.S. I also design MASSIVELY PARALLEL convolution neural networks for CRISPR editing that aren't just used for 16k by 16k video edge detection and editing! --- I am assuming you might need some help finding nucleotides that fit specific profiles (i.e. Antisense Oligonucleotides in DMS? Am I right?)

You are the only person who has seen the mythical large format Canon.....

You are writing a magic Codec that works on all cameras...

You have access to ALL models of Canon cameras, both still and video....

You work somewhere where they do not mind you bricking or destroying those cameras....

You design neural networks.....

You have a day job researching and designing Electro-Plasmadynamic Field Effects Engines for Aerospace vehicles that have Superluminal Flight Envelopes.....

HOLODECK! End simulation!!!!!!!!

To put it bluntly, everything that you say is HIGHLY suspect and if I were the administrator of this forum, you would be deleted as a member.

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HEY HE HEY! My job is to entertain....I actually work in a warehouse in East Van packaging and snail mailing VHS (!) XXX videos to 3rd world nations who STILL buy them by the truckload! A hella crapolla paying job but it pays for my Saturday night benders which last all the way until the next Thursday! And I get to watch all the multi-national shenanigans I want all day in a general mind-numbing stupor AND I get paid for it! Ya can't beat that!

And not only THAT, my camera is a Nokia Smartphone from 2009! ha ha ha ha ha ha.......

Oh well fooled ya all!

---

P.S. Gotta go back to fixing our downstairs fully optoelectronic Supercomputer which has 1300 of our 475 TeraFLOPs EACH of 60 GHz monolithic microcircuits. Ergo it IS the world's FASTEST supercomputer by a long-shot .....

Neuroanatomist ... I am assuming I was correct on the Duchenne MD part... I am also assuming suppressed Dp71 function, so the introduction of which molecules will cause re-expression? Is not a virus a mere amino acid with a protein coat? Find which of the SMALLEST ones react SPECIFICALLY with Thymepoietin....

Damn it Jim! I'm a Charlatan. Not a Camera Operator!

neuroanatomist

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2018, 09:09:42 PM »
Is not a virus a mere amino acid with a protein coat?

A mere nucleic acid with a protein coat.  That’s ok, though...the difference is sort of like the difference between the MF camera you claim Canon will announce, and the new multifunction printer that they’ll actually announce.  :)
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HarryFilm

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2018, 09:45:42 PM »
Is not a virus a mere amino acid with a protein coat?

A mere nucleic acid with a protein coat.  That’s ok, though...the difference is sort of like the difference between the MF camera you claim Canon will announce, and the new multifunction printer that they’ll actually announce.  :)

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Damn It Jim! I'm an Epson 48 inch wide 2400 dpi Hexachrome inkjet owner. Not a Bind to the Nitrogenous base and replace with some other Ammonium Hydroxide-like weak base solution so I can make a new nucleotide to allow re-expression thingamabob guy!
How else can I create some new polyaromatic hydrocarbon to force a new chain-reaction RNA transcription process...NO JIM! I'm just a Nokia 8208 smartphone owner and ship XXX videos to southeast Kyrgyztan all day every day!

scyrene

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2018, 10:03:52 PM »
I only need 4-5 hours of sleep per night.

This explains a lot  ;)
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Former equipment includes: 300D; EOS-M, EF-M 18-55, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, EF 35 f/2 IS, 70-200L f/4 non-IS and f/2.8L IS II, 85L II, Sigma 180 macro, 200L 2.8, 400L 5.6

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #111 on: March 13, 2018, 10:03:52 PM »

dave hoppus

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #112 on: March 14, 2018, 09:31:48 AM »
The body looks very similiar to a Leica Q.
Would be awesome, if Canon will do it like this...it would be a better Q, because of interchangeable lenses.

dave

HarryFilm

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #113 on: March 14, 2018, 07:06:09 PM »
Anyways....to get back on track...the very recent announcement by Sony executives on what THEY understand Canon and Nikon's Mirrorless plans are to be, are based upon the reasoning of a 60 BILLION US DOLLAR+ company who has access to dig-real-deep marketing and business forensics companies who know a LOT MORE than any of us about the inner workings of Canon and Nikon.

So when SONY says it thinks Canon is coming out with something mirrorless in the next 12 months, his information is probably VERY CLOSE to the horse's mouth. I also suspect he is talking about PRO-LEVEL gear such as the replacements or upgrades to 5D and 1D series at pro-level prices and the replacements for the M5 at the prosumer/enthusiast price levels.

Based upon "Chatter", Canon seems to be going for the Ultra High End (i.e. Medium Format Highspeed Mirrorless) AND with prosumer markets probably around the $1400 to $2300 US mark which would put it M5/M6 and 7D Territory for Mirrorless cameras.

I am personally guessing that the FIRST fully-mirrorless higher-end camera released will be around $1400 to $2300 US by this September and will look similar to the M5/M6 with 4k AP-C sensor and I am betting it will have a new H.265 codec for video and likely a JPEG-2000 wavelet codec for stills. To do that though on an M5/M6 body, I will say the 4K will be probably limited to 24/25/30 fps and the 50/60 fps 4K H.265 video will come out in later versions.

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For the Consumer-side of things in the $1400 US range, I have heard "Online Chatter" about a system quite a bit DIFFERENT THAN ANYTHING that Canon has ever produced before and at this point I am reluctant to give it too much credence other than that I have heard in the online darkworld shadows of engineering websites, that a very-long-battery life (i.e. MULTI-DAYS), large-sensor (an actual AP-C sensor!) 4K video SMARTPHONE is in the works!

YES! You heard that right! A Canon Smartphone with the largest sensor ever put on a smartphone! It is said to be nearly the same sensor used in the 7D Mk2 at 20.2 MP and 5472x3648 resolution but cheaper to manufacture. With a 4.1 micron photosite size smartphone IQ and colour rendering will likely be superb!  This phone is rumoured to be much thicker than any major smartphone out there (a full 5/8ths inch or 15.8mm thick!) in order to allow for the specialty optical lens assembly required for such a beast of a chip AND for the larger multi-day battery required to power such a system. It is to be in the 5.5 to 6.0 inch screen size range.

Screen resolution will be HDR display (but NOT OLED!) and on-par with current Samsung and Apple flagship phones. OS is said to be Android and will be UPGRADEABLE! The smartphone innards have been said to NOT come from Foxconn (who makes Apple's phones) but rather Xiaomi who make the 6.0" and larger giant Mi Mix and Mi Note series of phones! Evidently, the ARM-based Qualcomm Snapdragon 635 processor (I did not see any reference to a Snapdragon 645) AND a separate on-sensor image processor will take care of all photo and video IQ. On phone comms and memory it is said to be dual sim AND as much as 8 gigabytes to 12 gigabytes of RAM with 128 gig storage cards accepted.

No mention of adapters for external lenses but it was said that the lens assembly will be FLAT and FLUSH with the rear surface of the phone. No mention of optical ZOOM capability was made but for this price point it had BETTER be there! And at the $1400 US mark (1100 Euros), it will also be one of the most expensive smartphones out there!

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On a technical basis, the fact that the sources say it has a 15.8 mm (5/8th inch) thick case gives the rumour quite a bit more credence than I would usually give because THAT measurement is what would be the PHYSICAL REQUIREMENT to put in an AP-C sensor onto a smartphone AND still keep it flat and flush with the rear surface (i.e. no lens hump!) I am hoping the battery life is VERY high at say 8+ full hours of continuous photo-shoot use! And that the $1400 US price point is so high for a smartphone indicates to me that it is a direct across-the-bow-shot at the hyper-expensive Red Hydrogen smartphone... We shall see further updates as more becomes known!
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 07:12:52 PM by HarryFilm »

Vilmos

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #114 on: March 15, 2018, 08:13:15 AM »
An EF-S-style protrusion - but deeper - into the mirror-box might be possible...
I have entertained this idea for a while, and although I have arguments against it as well, thought it would be at least an interesting discussion topic...
To make it easier to explain, here is a sketch:

Talys

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #115 on: March 15, 2018, 12:03:16 PM »
An EF-S-style protrusion - but deeper - into the mirror-box might be possible...
I have entertained this idea for a while, and although I have arguments against it as well, thought it would be at least an interesting discussion topic...
To make it easier to explain, here is a sketch:

This design doesn't help with any of the lens that really matter -- lens that pros who buy $3,000 bodies have -- like a 24-70/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 or 85/1.4 or....

The because the focal flange distance, which is the distance between the sensor and the first glass element cannot be shorter than it is now.  This is why Sony GM lenses are longer than Canon EF lenses.  If you look inside a GM lens, you'll see that basically the first part is just empty space.

If they made a mount as you propose, all of the pro lenses would start with a first lens element near the mount.  The recessed lenses, especially if they recess as far back as you propose and with a lens-to-sensor size ration that you've illustrated, would end up being crop lenses of some kind.

Keep in mind that if you recess a lens, you lose a lot of potential throat diameter, because you still need to protect those first glass elements.

On the other hand, there is no reason at all an MILC couldn't just use EF-S.  You could mount your recessed lens... and get a crop camera at a lower megapixel (the image wouldn't cover the whole sensor), just like what you get if you use a APSC lens on a Sony FF.

Isaacheus

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #116 on: March 15, 2018, 05:19:34 PM »
An EF-S-style protrusion - but deeper - into the mirror-box might be possible...
I have entertained this idea for a while, and although I have arguments against it as well, thought it would be at least an interesting discussion topic...
To make it easier to explain, here is a sketch:

Whilst this in an interesting idea, like Talys pointed out, I think the throat width would reduce the usefulness somewhat. At the very least, I think it'd rule out fast lenses. Slower lenses may work?

Vilmos

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: March 15, 2018, 05:40:16 PM »
😊 As I said, I also have some counter-arguments...
Especially:
This design doesn't help with any of the lens that really matter -- lens that pros who buy $3,000 bodies have -- like a 24-70/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 or 85/1.4 or....
I fully agree with this.
And my sketch indeed shows an unchanged EF geometry, sans mirror.

The because the focal flange distance, which is the distance between the sensor and the first glass element cannot be shorter than it is now.  This is why Sony GM lenses are longer than Canon EF lenses.  If you look inside a GM lens, you'll see that basically the first part is just empty space.
I do not agree fully with this, however. FF cameras (Leica M, Contax G2, etc... 😊) have always had lenses where the rear element was just a few millimeters from the film plane. Wide angle primes.

I'm also curious if all those really big Sony FF G Master zooms actually "need" that space in the back, or they are just reworked SLR optical formulas. Comparable Leica M lenses tend to be smaller, at least that's my impression.

My point would be that there is no real need for a change to the EF mount. Some lenses will anyhow be happy with the flange distance, others - and you are right again here: if the throat diameter is sufficient - could reach into the space.

I think about FF only, for APS-C there is the EOS-M, and that's already another universe which, I believe, will fully cannibalize the EF-S line...

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #117 on: March 15, 2018, 05:40:16 PM »

Antono Refa

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #118 on: March 16, 2018, 09:52:55 AM »
The because the focal flange distance, which is the distance between the sensor and the first glass element cannot be shorter than it is now.  This is why Sony GM lenses are longer than Canon EF lenses.  If you look inside a GM lens, you'll see that basically the first part is just empty space.
I do not agree fully with this, however. FF cameras (Leica M, Contax G2, etc... 😊) have always had lenses where the rear element was just a few millimeters from the film plane. Wide angle primes.

AFAIK, that was possible because film behaves differently than digital sensors. Film chemistry will react with light hitting it at any angle, while digital sensors need light to hits close to perpendicular, and that requires more distance between the back element and the sensor.

Talys

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2018, 10:01:45 AM »
The because the focal flange distance, which is the distance between the sensor and the first glass element cannot be shorter than it is now.  This is why Sony GM lenses are longer than Canon EF lenses.  If you look inside a GM lens, you'll see that basically the first part is just empty space.
I do not agree fully with this, however. FF cameras (Leica M, Contax G2, etc... 😊) have always had lenses where the rear element was just a few millimeters from the film plane. Wide angle primes.

AFAIK, that was possible because film behaves differently than digital sensors. Film chemistry will react with light hitting it at any angle, while digital sensors need light to hits close to perpendicular, and that requires more distance between the back element and the sensor.

More generally speaking, pancakes also benefit from mirrorless size benefits.  But the thing is, nobody complains about the total package size with a pancake, right?  What we are REALLY wanting are the workhorse primes and zooms that are currently awkwardly large to be smaller.

For example, I choose to upgrade my original 24-70/2.8 to the 24-70/4 over the new 2.8, in part because of IS, but in part because of the attractive size.

If a recessed (or mirrorless) full frame 24-70/2.8 could become the size of a f/4IS package, that would be really interesting -- but I don't believe that's possible.

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Re: A Prototype Full Frame Mirrorless From Canon Exists [CR1]
« Reply #119 on: March 16, 2018, 10:01:45 AM »