May 27, 2018, 09:45:26 PM

Author Topic: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]  (Read 21099 times)

TonyPicture

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2018, 05:33:15 AM »
Realistically when will this MLFF arrive? As not yet confirmed from Canon could it be out in 2019 or maybe we'll see this in 2018. As many of you seem up to speed on camera development/speculation you thoughts would be helpful... 

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #90 on: April 18, 2018, 05:33:15 AM »

padam

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #91 on: April 18, 2018, 06:33:03 AM »
If prototypes really do exist, it should arrive later this year.

(5D IV prototypes were reported in March 2016, camera was released in the end of August 2016)

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #92 on: April 18, 2018, 06:37:37 AM »
So pretty much my prediction was correct - a new mount.

I was also predicting a camera somewhere between the 5D and 6D capabilities. Looking at the rumor, a 5D level camera would make sense as the users who use 5D are more likely to but the new camera and lenses. The 2 obvious groups are wedding/portait using the new lenses and sports/wildlife using an adapter with EF lenses.

not exactly a hard one, you had two choices, a new mount or an existing one.

Nope, but most of the posters were of the opinion that it made no sense for Canon to go with a new mount!

 :) ;)

Ummm... how can your prediction be correct? There is no spec sheet yet and the camera hasn't been announced.  :o We don't know what the mount will be.

Besides, if it is a hybrid mount (half EF and half "something else") you'd be only 50% right... which is an easy fail at any school. "F"

At any rate, predictions are like a holes...  ::) Facts are another matter, and we have none.
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Stuart

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #93 on: April 18, 2018, 06:43:48 AM »
2 Mirrorless bodies - Both Video targeted?     I hope not.
Mirrorless means less component cost - cheaper cameras?

Mirrorless should mean faster FPS, full time AF, and true silent operation.   - I'm less bothered about the actual mount as long as i can use old EF lenses.

Does Mirrorless also facilitate a shallower DOF, or  easier wide angle lenses?
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CanonFanBoy

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #94 on: April 18, 2018, 06:44:52 AM »
Realistically when will this MLFF arrive? As not yet confirmed from Canon could it be out in 2019 or maybe we'll see this in 2018. As many of you seem up to speed on camera development/speculation you thoughts would be helpful...

I speculate that a camera will be released sometime in the next 5 years. It will be in one of the four seasons of one of those years.

Just saying this so that I can later say that I was right about something and so that I can let the forum know I was right so the members can bow to me.  ::)

Seriously though, nobody knows so can't be helpful at all.
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Diltiazem

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #95 on: April 18, 2018, 06:45:14 AM »
I think Canon can and should go with EF mount to start with. At the moment everything is temporary as far as the mirrorless goes. Canon has time to sort out new mount/adapter or other technology in next 5 to 10 years. At the moment it would be foolish to do anything other than simple EF mount.

CanonFanBoy

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2018, 06:46:30 AM »
Mirrorless means less component cost...

And you know this because? Just because the mirror box isn't there doesn't mean the camera costs less to produce, component wise or otherwise. The price will be whatever the market will bear.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 06:51:26 AM by CanonFanBoy »
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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #96 on: April 18, 2018, 06:46:30 AM »

Chris Jankowski

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #97 on: April 18, 2018, 07:05:36 AM »
Mirrorless camera should be cheaper to manufacture than DSLR of the same functionality.

The simple reasons for this are that you remove a number of opto-mechanical components that are expensive to manufacture and require precise i.e. costly alignment in the manufacturing process.

You remove pentaprism and other optical parts of the viewfinder including diopter adjuster, slapping mirror with another mirror section for PDAF, and PDAF sensor itself,

For example, only the costly EOS 5D and EOS 1D give you precise 100% viewfinder coverage in FF Canon DSLRs. On a mirrorless this is easy and essentially comes free.

You need to add EVF, but this is an electronic component with a simple diopter adjustmant. 

neuroanatomist

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #98 on: April 18, 2018, 07:20:42 AM »
Mirrorless means less component cost - cheaper cameras?

Why would they pass those savings along to customers?  Mirrorless means 'hot new tech' which means premium pricing.  Premium price plus lower production cost means even more profit.
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Mikehit

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #99 on: April 18, 2018, 07:30:20 AM »
Mirrorless camera should be cheaper to manufacture than DSLR of the same functionality.

The simple reasons for this are that you remove a number of opto-mechanical components that are expensive to manufacture and require precise i.e. costly alignment in the manufacturing process.

You remove pentaprism and other optical parts of the viewfinder including diopter adjuster, slapping mirror with another mirror section for PDAF, and PDAF sensor itself,

For example, only the costly EOS 5D and EOS 1D give you precise 100% viewfinder coverage in FF Canon DSLRs. On a mirrorless this is easy and essentially comes free.

You need to add EVF, but this is an electronic component with a simple diopter adjustmant.

So why are Sony cameras not significantly lower cost than Canon cameras?

crashpc

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #100 on: April 18, 2018, 07:31:00 AM »
There are many aspects going along, or against each other in terms of final price.

Easier assembly, less testing
Less components
Hot new tech sold for premium
Economies of scale
Demand
Input variables price changes
Exchange rates

One time, we had really cheap M50 kit in the Europe. Like at the day it hit the shops, it sold for $770 with 15-45mm lens. Not a bad price for new product release. Canon EOS M6 + 15-45 was for $850-950 that day.

AvTvM

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #101 on: April 18, 2018, 07:57:45 AM »
So why are Sony cameras not significantly lower cost than Canon cameras?

Good one. Price of bodies and even more so of FE lenses ... that's where Sony is incredibly stupid. While they rejoice over their extra high margins they are failing to grab enough market share quickly enough to really build critical mass  ... 1st gen A7 bodies have shown, at what (comparatively low) prices FF MILCs can be sold [presumably still with profit and not at or below cost].  Had they followed it up with a slightly nerfed "entry level" A7 II model at USD/ € 999,- ... it would have done the same in the market what Canon's EOS 300D and 350D did back in the day ["first DSLR for less than a grand"] ... Sony "A7 IIX" could have been made "first FF camera body under a grand" ... it would have laid waste to Canon's market share and profitability. And given the Sony system the needed boost to quickly establish themselves in the market ... and rapidly pass Nikon. Mirrorslapping Nikon would have been hit even harder than Canon.

yes i know, easy to say in retrospect.

But looking at Sony FE lens lineup and their incredibly high prices ... the main reason why many folks who are playing with the thought of switching are not acting on it. :-)
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 08:55:46 AM by AvTvM »

kaptainkatsu

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2018, 08:16:46 AM »
I broke down and bought an M50. I really needed a smaller solution than my 1DX2 for certain situations. My new job involves producing videos for social media (by myself with no assistant) so I really needed a flippy screen. I really wanted an a7III but since it didn't have a flippy screen I decided against it. GH5 fit the bill but the video AF sucks

Certainly will be watching what happens in the FF department and will most likely pick one up when they are released.
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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #102 on: April 18, 2018, 08:16:46 AM »

kaptainkatsu

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #103 on: April 18, 2018, 08:20:06 AM »
Mirrorless means less component cost - cheaper cameras?

Why would they pass those savings along to customers?  Mirrorless means 'hot new tech' which means premium pricing.  Premium price plus lower production cost means even more profit.

I think initially no, since they need to recoup R&D costs. But I think that once it rolls through the lifecycle, discounts will come quick and probably significant.

Just look at Apple, they just roll down their flagship down the line every year for two years. You can get what was once a flagship phone from 2 years ago at half the price.
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mb66energy

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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2018, 09:28:59 AM »
Mirrorless camera should be cheaper to manufacture than DSLR of the same functionality.

The simple reasons for this are that you remove a number of opto-mechanical components that are expensive to manufacture and require precise i.e. costly alignment in the manufacturing process.

You remove pentaprism and other optical parts of the viewfinder including diopter adjuster, slapping mirror with another mirror section for PDAF, and PDAF sensor itself,

For example, only the costly EOS 5D and EOS 1D give you precise 100% viewfinder coverage in FF Canon DSLRs. On a mirrorless this is easy and essentially comes free.

You need to add EVF, but this is an electronic component with a simple diopter adjustmant.

So why are Sony cameras not significantly lower cost than Canon cameras?

Maybe EVF is simpler than OVF + PDAF but it is a newly developed component especially the OLED ones and it needs some processing power + sensors to gain very high refresh rates and negligible lag. And optical components like small lenses despite multicoated cannot be very expensive because they are found in lots of kit lenses and they make e.g. 2 EUR production cost while the large front element costs maybe 5...10 EUR. Body components are real mass products, a lot of lenses not that much!

So I am not convinced that mirror-less is really cheaper because they left numerous things and added a few ones instead. Especially OLED _color_ displays with _long term stability_ are - if they really are available - a very new product line!
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Re: Two Prosumer Mirrorless Camera Bodies in Development [CR2]
« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2018, 09:28:59 AM »