July 19, 2018, 01:35:46 PM

Author Topic: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax  (Read 3487 times)

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1704
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 02:06:25 PM »
This happens for computer hobbyists too.  A lot of people buy from vendors that don't charge the sales tax, and this evens out the playing field.

In Canada, small vendors (people who do less than a certain amount of business in a province) still don't need to register for sales tax, so you occasionally tax-free stuff on Amazon.ca, mostly for things by Chinese vendors like Yongnuo/Godox/Neewer.

But, I mean, if you're buying a 600Pro strobe, not paying sales tax is still nice.



canon rumors FORUM

Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 02:06:25 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ***************
  • Posts: 22829
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 02:18:29 PM »
It’s both. States were concerned about the loss of revenue, but brick and mortar retailers support it as well because they saw it as an unfair advantage.

It's 'intended to benefit brick and mortar retailers' in the same way that tax cuts for large corporations are intended to benefit their rank-and-file employees and their customers.  Benefit to the 'little guy' might result, but it's not the intent (even though promoters may disingenuously claim that as a motivation).

/cynicism
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

fullstop

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 03:33:23 PM »
i find it amazing that "in one nation under god" there is not "one unified, nationwide sales tax, applicable on any and all sales, be they online or locally "offline".  Federally collected to make collection easy and to make it easy [also for small/er] for retailers to do their accounting. And distributed to states based on some key. Percentage of population for example.  Or whatever formula works best.

Where I live we have 20% [national/federally collected] VAT in general "on anything" purchased by end users/consumers. Basic foodstuffs, rent payments for private housing (!), public transportation tickets etc. are taxed at half-rate 10%. After a few years of "online shock" VAT is now also collected on online sales throughout / between EU countries. If I order from amazon US [if they ship to my country at all] will also be taxed at our applicable VAT rate.   

Tax revenues are then distributed at federal, state and community levels according to some intricate formula, but mainly based on population numbers - but taking care of less densely settled rural states/areas as well.

Really interesting to observe how "un-united" the "United" States of America are in many regards. :-)

Talys

  • EOS-1D X Mark II
  • *******
  • Posts: 1704
  • Canon 6DII
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 04:29:06 PM »
i find it amazing that "in one nation under god" there is not "one unified, nationwide sales tax, applicable on any and all sales, be they online or locally "offline".  Federally collected to make collection easy and to make it easy [also for small/er] for retailers to do their accounting. And distributed to states based on some key. Percentage of population for example.  Or whatever formula works best.

Where I live we have 20% [national/federally collected] VAT in general "on anything" purchased by end users/consumers. Basic foodstuffs, rent payments for private housing (!), public transportation tickets etc. are taxed at half-rate 10%. After a few years of "online shock" VAT is now also collected on online sales throughout / between EU countries. If I order from amazon US [if they ship to my country at all] will also be taxed at our applicable VAT rate.   

Tax revenues are then distributed at federal, state and community levels according to some intricate formula, but mainly based on population numbers - but taking care of less densely settled rural states/areas as well.

Really interesting to observe how "un-united" the "United" States of America are in many regards. :-)

Where do you live?  The European Union doesn't have a unified sales tax, nor Canada.

We have tried it in Canada -- called the Harmonized Sales Tax -- but it doesn't work here very well (it isn't adopted by many provinces), for a simple, practical reason.  For most of the existance of our nation, different sales taxes have been collected on a federal and provincial level (In Canada, the municipal government levies property taxes). 

Because each level of government is responsible for their own budget, they have been empowered to levy their own taxes and derive revenues within their own legislatures.  For example, it is not the responsibility of people in Eastern Canada to fund the schools and inter-city roads of people thousands of kilometers away in Western Canada.  It is not the responsibility of largely agricultural provinces to pay for maintaining the infrastructure of largely urban areas. 

This was especially true in decades past, before a more global economy.  As a result, different areas have different tax rates.  Today, it makes a lot of sense to harmonize that and then transfer it at a federal level, but there are two practical impediments:

1. If you pick a tax level that is revenue neutral, some people will end up paying more tax, and they will protest that vehemently.  Especially if they lived in a region which had no sales tax to start with.

2. Some people will feel it unfair to shoulder a greater tax burden for the benefit of a region in which they have no democratic input.

As a practical matter, we tried it in our province in British Columbia, to join the harmonized sales tax program.  Even though the tax rate didn't change, some things that were partially tax exempt became taxed, and that was fiercely resisted by the population, to the point where we held a referendum on it and repealed it (going back to the old system of separate provincial and federal sales taxes).

fullstop

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2018, 04:59:09 PM »
correct, EU does not have harmonized sales tax/VAT. But we really should have it. Would make things so much easier for everybody - consumers, businesses, tax collection - in all member countries.

Currently VAT rates and rules are at least set at the national level (federal) in many (most?) EU countries. Same for income tax - both at individual and corporate entity level.

There may be some additional taxes set at state/region/district/municipal levels however. Typically those would be based on real estate/property, residential taxes or employment/headcount related. Plus all the extra charges and fees on top of cost for utilities - energy, fresh water, garbage collection, sewage etc. etc.

Enough room to "differentiate" and fund local political follies :-)

unfocused

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4206
    • Mark Gordon Communications
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2018, 05:32:59 PM »
i find it amazing that "in one nation under god" there is not "one unified, nationwide sales tax, applicable on any and all sales, be they online or locally "offline"...

Remember that the U.S. was founded by a bunch of tax protesters who were deeply skeptical of strong central government. Over 200 plus years our federal government has slowly absorbed more authority, but the concept of separate states united together and reserving to themselves all powers not specifically grated to the central government remains a core constitutional principle.

Graphic.Artifacts

  • EOS Rebel 300D
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2018, 06:04:07 PM »
The roots of "one nation under god" only go back to 1950's McCarthyism and have nothing to do with the founding principles of the United States of America.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2018, 06:04:07 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ***************
  • Posts: 22829
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2018, 06:28:38 PM »
Remember that the U.S. was founded by a bunch of tax protesters who were deeply skeptical of strong central government.

Yeah.  An unacceptably onerous tax rate of 3%. 
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

unfocused

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4206
    • Mark Gordon Communications
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2018, 06:36:35 PM »
The roots of "one nation under god" only go back to 1950's McCarthyism and have nothing to do with the founding principles of the United States of America.

Let’s not nitpick. Clearly Fullstop was placing the emphasis on “one nation”in the context of a single unified government. The specific phrase he used has a history of its own, but I don’t think it’s necessary to devolve into political debates about 1950s anti communism. I did not use that phrase and was only explaining why we the United States has a patchwork of state and local tax laws, instead of a true national system.

unfocused

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *********
  • Posts: 4206
    • Mark Gordon Communications
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2018, 06:39:43 PM »
Remember that the U.S. was founded by a bunch of tax protesters who were deeply skeptical of strong central government.

Yeah.  An unacceptably onerous tax rate of 3%.

That didn’t come anywhere near the cost of supporting and protecting colonies that were halfway across the world.

stevelee

  • EOS 5D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 646
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2018, 11:12:27 PM »
The Boston Tea Party is somewhat relevant to this discussion. The protesters were not complaining about a tax, but the lack of a tax. The East India Company didn't have to pay tax, thus undercutting local merchants. That is not the way it was explained to us as kids.

I will refrain from pointing out the levels of irony in the current Tea Party movement, especially when they get elected to Congress. That would get us too political, though issues of taxation are relevant to the current discussion.

As for the Pledge, when I was a kid, I learned the original Baptist version that said "one nation, indivisible." That would be more to fullstop's point.

fullstop

  • EOS 7D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 513
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2018, 02:49:50 AM »
As for the Pledge, when I was a kid, I learned the original Baptist version that said "one nation, indivisible." That would be more to fullstop's point.

yes! thanks. did not want to make references to mc carthian anti-communism. just wanted to express my surprise that a (big, powerful, well-organized?) country does not seem able to design a unified/harmonized sales tax system that applies to all its citizens, wherever they live and wherever they shop and purchase products.

in europe only switzerland comes to mind as a country with strongly differentiated tax regimes for each "state" ("kanton"). anyways, so far their model has also been reasonably successful. and definitely "well organized". :-)
however, even in Switzerland VAT is an (indirect) federal tax with unified rules for the entire country. normal rate VAT is a surprisungly low (for Europe) 7.7% with a reduced rate of only 2.5% and a special rate of 3.7% for tourism (lodging). due to their non-membership in the EU, correct handling of taxes, duties and incurred VAT is an absolute bureaucratic nightmare for both dealers and customers for any cross-border transaction, no matter whether online or offline. ;-)

but at least *within one country* VAT on offline and online trade should not be such a complicated matter in 2018. but politics, public administration and laws are always behind the times. what was good governance when out of state purchases were an exception and goods delivered by wells fargo stage coach (unless it was raided en route) is not necessarily adequate any longer in 2018. ;-)

monkey44

  • EOS 6D Mark II
  • *****
  • Posts: 430
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2018, 04:06:21 PM »
Seems to me this was less an issue prior to Internet sales and the development of effective and efficient door to door shipping.   Most often in the past, we would usually head down to the local store, buy our equipment, become friends and customers ... pay tax, and forget it.

Suddenly, UPS and FEDEX, and the like became cost-effective to deliver merchandise, and that's when the issue of sales tax becomes relevant to each state ...  even tho, in law, the tax should be added to tax return or some other method in the state of habitation (or the employment??)

But, I venture to guess most purchasers of out/state equipment either 'forget' or 'don't realize' that tax is still due in home state.   I'll leave that one alone for now - but the major tax collection runs hand in hand with internet ordering and transport across state lines.  Legal, of course, but awkward for any in-state tax system.

I'd be curious to know how a company distributes the tax, once collected??  Does it send each state a portion depending on where it ships >>> and what about no-sales-tax states, like New Hampshire?? 

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2018, 04:06:21 PM »

neuroanatomist

  • CR GEEK
  • ***************
  • Posts: 22829
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2018, 04:10:09 PM »
I'd be curious to know how a company distributes the tax, once collected??  Does it send each state a portion depending on where it ships >>> and what about no-sales-tax states, like New Hampshire??

They collect the tax appropriate for the billing address of the customer, and remit that tax (in aggregate) to each state periodically.
EOS 1D X, EOS M6, lots of lenses
______________________________
Flickr | TDP Profile/Gear List

takesome1

  • EOS 5DS R
  • ******
  • Posts: 1228
Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2018, 04:37:33 PM »
Remember that the U.S. was founded by a bunch of tax protesters who were deeply skeptical of strong central government.

Yeah.  An unacceptably onerous tax rate of 3%.

That didn’t come anywhere near the cost of supporting and protecting colonies that were halfway across the world.

It appears they didn't need protection.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Looks like B&H, Adorama, etc will start collecting sales tax
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2018, 04:37:33 PM »