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Author Topic: post processing for screen.  (Read 3872 times)

thepancakeman

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post processing for screen.
« on: February 21, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »
Now that I'm working on getting a color managed workflow, I'm realizing that there are completely different needs between print and screen.

So how do you manage output between the two?  People's screens differ so much, how do you pick an "average" to get it looking good on the most number of screens?  The two biggies that come to mind are brightness and sharpening.  I use Lightroom, and on the export there is a "sharpen for screen" option--do people use that or figure that they have the appropriate sharpness before the export?  Is there any kind of "brighten for screen" (or would it be darken for screen??) on output, or how do you put that in the workflow?

Thanks!

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post processing for screen.
« on: February 21, 2012, 12:28:41 PM »

alipaulphotography

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2012, 01:15:19 PM »
Get a monitor calibrator. Anyone that does anything to do with imaging should have one in my opinion.
That will ensure all your colours, black and whites on screen are 'correct' and how they will come out in a print. The difference in brightness is probably due to your backlight being on far too high. The calibrator will tell you to correct this.

I keep my entire workflow in sRGB and what I see on screen matches my prints so I have no reason to use adobe or prophoto.

I use various actions in photoshop to resize and sharpen my images for prints or for my website. My sharpening is very light.

The calibration tool is use is the Spyder 3 Elite. Works great on my 27" thunderbolt display.

Hope that helps!

Wedding Shooter1

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2012, 01:18:07 PM »
Now that I'm working on getting a color managed workflow, I'm realizing that there are completely different needs between print and screen.

So how do you manage output between the two?  People's screens differ so much, how do you pick an "average" to get it looking good on the most number of screens?  The two biggies that come to mind are brightness and sharpening.  I use Lightroom, and on the export there is a "sharpen for screen" option--do people use that or figure that they have the appropriate sharpness before the export?  Is there any kind of "brighten for screen" (or would it be darken for screen??) on output, or how do you put that in the workflow?

Thanks!

You can't. There is no way of telling what other's screens look like. You just have to make the image look the way you want, what you think it should be and what looks best to you on your screen. If you are all set up and things are perfect with all calibrations you should be getting the same thing for web and print. What you see on your screen should match your prints and those can then be made into websized versions for online.

You can certainly add some sharpening to web sized images in Photoshop.

The only thing you have to do is to assign an sRGB color profile to anything you want to be online so it will look as intended. If you don't do that colors and stuff may be off in peoples web browsers. For example if you edit in Adobe RGB and leave that as the profile it will look perfect in Photoshop but not online in web browsers.

tt

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 01:23:19 PM »
Now that I'm working on getting a color managed workflow, I'm realizing that there are completely different needs between print and screen.

So how do you manage output between the two?  People's screens differ so much, how do you pick an "average" to get it looking good on the most number of screens?  The two biggies that come to mind are brightness and sharpening.  I use Lightroom, and on the export there is a "sharpen for screen" option--do people use that or figure that they have the appropriate sharpness before the export?  Is there any kind of "brighten for screen" (or would it be darken for screen??) on output, or how do you put that in the workflow?

Thanks!

Ok - don't take this as an advert - because it's not.
Went to SWPP and some one of the Nik guys show off their wares in a hour or so demo.
One of the things was their Dfine Output sharpner filters - basically having a side by side vertical slider over the picture to see how it'd look being printed on various printers, paper, sizes etc vs web.
I believe you can get a demo from http://www.niksoftware.com/site/ if you want to try it out or check out the manual. Likely their are videos on their site on how to use it for that.

Maui5150

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 01:37:33 PM »
I use one of the Spyder tools and calibrate both my monitor and laptop.

This way I know at least the color I think I should be seeing is what I am seeing at least calibrated.

I also use the Color Checker Passport when I shoot to correct the lighting as well.  It is easy to use and with Lightroom or PhotoShop very easy to adjust all shots. 

I work in the Adobe RGB space because I like having more color to work with, but for anything I send out, I generally convert to sRGB since that is a limiting factor.

If I know someone if going to get printing done off of the photos, especially for Agencies, I ask what color profile they prefer the images to be in. 

There are many many tools that are out there.  First step is understanding that monitor to monitor varies and what you see is not necessarily what someone else will, but if you color calibrate, and they color calibrate, it should be closer. 

tt

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2012, 01:39:06 PM »
Now that I'm working on getting a color managed workflow, I'm realizing that there are completely different needs between print and screen.

So how do you manage output between the two?  People's screens differ so much, how do you pick an "average" to get it looking good on the most number of screens?  The two biggies that come to mind are brightness and sharpening.  I use Lightroom, and on the export there is a "sharpen for screen" option--do people use that or figure that they have the appropriate sharpness before the export?  Is there any kind of "brighten for screen" (or would it be darken for screen??) on output, or how do you put that in the workflow?

Thanks!

Ok - don't take this as an advert - because it's not.
Went to SWPP and some one of the Nik guys show off their wares in a hour or so demo.
One of the things was their Dfine Output sharpner filters - basically having a side by side vertical slider over the picture to see how it'd look being printed on various printers, paper, sizes etc vs web.  (Pretty sure it was Dfine - he did show all of the Nik Software).
I believe you can get a demo from http://www.niksoftware.com/site/ if you want to try it out or check out the manual. Likely their are videos on their site on how to use it for that.

From what I saw on the projector - it was doing a decent job of it.

thepancakeman

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 03:53:25 PM »
Yup, I get the whole calibrated monitor, etc.   ;)

Maybe let me ask this a different way:  you have 100 photos that are both going to print and publish to web.  Do you just calibrate the image for printing and ignore the web side of things, or do you handle each destination separately, and if so, how?

I realize that everyone's monitors are different, however that doesn't mean you should just ignore that part of the equation.  Just like making a decent audio recording, mixing it to simply sound good "on my speakers" isn't very professional.  You have to mix it so that it will sound the best it can on a wide variety of playback systems and environments.

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2012, 03:53:25 PM »

elsyx

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2012, 04:50:35 PM »
Quote
I realize that everyone's monitors are different, however that doesn't mean you should just ignore that part of the equation.  Just like making a decent audio recording, mixing it to simply sound good "on my speakers" isn't very professional.  You have to mix it so that it will sound the best it can on a wide variety of playback systems and environments.

You can't control how your images will look on anyone else's monitor.  But if you have a calibrated monitor, then it is more likely to look as good as possible on as many other monitors as possible.

It's the same in audio recording.  Professional mixers use professional monitors that are calibrated to have a flat (normal) frequency response.  They mix so that it sounds good on the reference monitors, and then it is more likely to sound good on as many other speakers as possible.  If you're mixing on speakers with an unknown frequency resposne -- or adjusting colors and tone curves on an uncalibrated monitor -- then the results are unpredictable, unless you have a very good sense for the peculiarities of your specific setup.

Bottom line, calibrate your monitor, and adjust your images so they look good to you there.

As far as sharpening, I personally use Lightroom's default export sharpening set to "low" for most cases, but try a few experiments and see what works for you!
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awinphoto

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2012, 05:22:59 PM »
This is one thing where you may be fighting a loosing battle in which I've struggled most my digital era age.  One of my clients for example, prefers that I clip out the backgrounds of my product shots so they can then put the tiff file of the clipped subject in just about any application such as web, catalogs, flyers, magazine, etc without having to fuss with the background.  That's fine but their internet's background color is white.  The problem being once I throw in a white subject or a clear or even natural color subject in that white background, While they may look good on my color calibrated screen, a manager who may have their crappy late 90's monitor next to a large window, and poor calibration, the objects can then get lost within their white backgrounded website.  You can darken the edges, but then you get complaints that it looks too illustrative with hard edge lines...  You could make the whole thing darker or less contrasty and then it may look great on their screen but look hideous to modern monitors.  You can see how this can get very dicey, especially when dealing with their clients who may be that 70-80 year old chairman in that corner office with a bad monitor.  The irony is they always praise my print work such as catalogs, flyers, banners, etc and say that want that quality on the web, but they cant figure it out that they are getting that quality, but if they tried looking at my print files on their bad monitors/set-up, it will look like crap.  I've learned to slightly reduce contrast to bring in more mid tones for bad monitors and dont let it get to me because there is almost nothing you can do about it other than have some disclaimer on the site saying that colors may vary depending on monitor calibration and maybe even have a link or two to colorrite or mcbeth monitor calibrators. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

alipaulphotography

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2012, 05:52:36 PM »
Once calibrated, the images look good both in prints and on the web.

If someone else is viewing the web on a crappy monitor then that is their problem.

The only thing you should change for prints and web is sharpening. I provide clients with one set of high resolution images with a light sharpening which can be used for prints and a low 'web ready' 800px wide images with my 'web sharpening' action.

awinphoto

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2012, 05:57:15 PM »
Once calibrated, the images look good both in prints and on the web.

If someone else is viewing the web on a crappy monitor then that is their problem.

The only thing you should change for prints and web is sharpening. I provide clients with one set of high resolution images with a light sharpening which can be used for prints and a low 'web ready' 800px wide images with my 'web sharpening' action.

You would think so, but the older the client, the older your clients clients are, the more hardset they are in their minds.  Such as my client, the marketing manager, who also has calibrated monitors, fully agree's with me and my stance on my photos, but in the end, if their client cannot view the inventory and if they get complaints, all the arguing that they need to calibrate their monitors will eventually fall on deaf ears and it will reflect on you.  Is it fair, no, but it is what it is. 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:00:11 PM by awinphoto »
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Grigbar

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2012, 06:38:37 PM »
Theres not much point in calibrating your monitor if your using one of the 6bit displays that comprise the vast majority of monitors out there. No matter how you calibrate it will never give you accurate color representation. You need a 10bit display in order to reveal the entire RGB color profiles. An 8bit IPS display is a lot better than a 6bit POS but even an 8bit doesnt come close to reproducing all the colors.

If your using a good printer you need to use the ICC profiles for that printer because your printer can not do what a 10 panel can and what you see on your screen is not what your printer is going to reproduce.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2012, 06:42:25 PM by Grigbar »

Maui5150

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 06:55:37 PM »
Theres not much point in calibrating your monitor if your using one of the 6bit displays that comprise the vast majority of monitors out there. No matter how you calibrate it will never give you accurate color representation. You need a 10bit display in order to reveal the entire RGB color profiles. An 8bit IPS display is a lot better than a 6bit POS but even an 8bit doesnt come close to reproducing all the colors.

If your using a good printer you need to use the ICC profiles for that printer because your printer can not do what a 10 panel can and what you see on your screen is not what your printer is going to reproduce.

Color is color.  More depth is definitely nice, but it is still worth while calibrating a monitor, especially when using something like the Color Checker Passport or an 18% gray card, because you can take what is shot in your camera, and match it up so at least in photoshop or lightroom, that 18% gray is 18% gray. 

You may not have depth, but at least your color shift will be close. 

That is a hell of a lot better than doing nothing.

My Desktop Monitor is a hell of a lot better than my laptop screen and I learned the hard way doing a lot of editing on my laptop, then opening up on desktop and thinking what the hell was I doing.  This is especially true when matching up Gamma. 

I still get better color depth on my Desktop, but at least if I do exposure correction and basic edits on my laptop, when I open them up on my desktop they look reasonable and not overexposed/underexposed or serious color/tint shifts

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2012, 06:55:37 PM »

RedEye

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2012, 08:03:47 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts about how to either PP the photos or adjust the hardware if the goal is to display the photos through a home network onto a HD television such as a Samsung HD LED screen with several million colors and shades of gray? 

I've found to disable any color saturating features of the TV.  Other feedback welcome.

Thanks!

Red

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 08:36:25 PM »
Anyone have any thoughts about how to either PP the photos or adjust the hardware if the goal is to display the photos through a home network onto a HD television such as a Samsung HD LED screen with several million colors and shades of gray? 

I've found to disable any color saturating features of the TV.  Other feedback welcome.

Thanks!

Red

If your HD TV has not been calibrated, all bets are off.  Calibrate your image editing monitor so that your images are the correct color and brightness.

Then, if they do not look good on your TV, it needs calibrated as well.

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Re: post processing for screen.
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2012, 08:36:25 PM »