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Author Topic: 5D3 - New Sensor  (Read 4005 times)

RedEye

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5D3 - New Sensor
« on: February 24, 2012, 05:18:18 PM »
Any guesses if the 5D3 will be a release of new sensor technology?  Perhaps a back-illuminated or otherwise new advanced technology.  Does the D800 have any of this?

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5D3 - New Sensor
« on: February 24, 2012, 05:18:18 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2012, 05:48:13 PM »
There is always new technology to squeeze out the tiny additional bit of improvement.  I doubt any back lighting, it does not improve that much for large sensors, and will cost a lot more.  We will see reduced circuitry size, more readout columns, gapless micro lenses, and lower noise readouts in addition to lower noise in digic V.

We would be very lucky to have all this add up to more than 1/2 to 1 stop actual sensor improvement.  However, adding 1/2 - 1 stop to all my lenses might cost me North of 10K.

RedEye

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2012, 05:59:12 PM »
I would like to see something rather unique or justifiably expensive, such as a true 36MP faveon with 36X3 layers of sensor pots or something of that nature.  I'm not totally convinced that I don't want to be wowed more than I simply want great photos.... guess patience and technology will battle it out over the weekend. :)

DavidRiesenberg

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 06:06:10 PM »
I am puzzled over Canon's decision to release two full frame sensors with only 4MPs between them - with the lower rated one going into the flagship and not the 2nd tier camera.
As I see it there could be two very different reasons for that. One bad(ish) and one good(ish).

The bad(ish) option is that the 22MP sensor is not a new sensor at all, but the same sensor found in the 5DII. A technically feasible explanation for that could be that the current 5D sensor has some photosites blocked/disabled for whatever reason Canon decided to do so 4 years ago and now they simply enabled them back on. Another explanation could be that it is in fact the same sensor but with new gapless microlenses. I don't know enough of sensor tech to say whether this is economically or technically feasible in a way that would benefit Canon.

The good(ish) reason could be that as mentioned before, a 22MP sensor allows for a clean 3 x 3 downsample to 1920 x 1080 which would make sense since the 5D represents the pinnacle of DSLR video for Canon.

Radiating

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2012, 06:32:34 PM »
Any guesses if the 5D3 will be a release of new sensor technology?  Perhaps a back-illuminated or otherwise new advanced technology.  Does the D800 have any of this?

The old 5D2 actually used one of the cheapest and least efficient sensors possible. In a word, it was stone age technology. The sensor had so little light gathering abbility that it performed on par only with medium format cameras and the earliest 2-6 megapixel DSLR's.

Back illumination and other such advanced technology is nessesary to eek gains out of sensors on the bleeding edge.

What Canon will likley do is simply update the sensor technology to just being average. Even so that will DOUBLE the light gathering of the sensor.

mb66energy

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2012, 06:33:49 PM »
I am shure that Canon has improved the sensor in terms of high iso usefulness and hopefully in dynamic range.

In my opinion the most important improvement potential lies in dynamic range - allowing for larger corrections of the contrast. Think about a camera with 16 bit true dynamic range (compared to 12 bit at 100 iso for the 5DII) - every shot is a HDR shot, just tweak the contrast/curves a little bit!

And it might be possible that Canon decided that 22 MPix are enough for todays lenses. I am very satisfied with the 10 MPix of my 40D where very good lenses give a pixel by pixel resolution - like the 60 or 100 macro and especially the 2.0/100@f4.
TOOLS: EF-S 10-22 | 60 || EF 2.8/24 | 2.8/40* | 2.8 100 Macro* |2.0/100 | 4.0/70-200* | 5.6/400* || 2 x 40D | 600D | EOS M  [* most used lenses]

marekjoz

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 06:39:23 PM »
There is still ongoing advance in (also sensor) technology and when it seems that we're close to uncrossable border, there is some practical discovery which moves this border again. When I was studying, our lecturer stated, that frequency over 50MHz in discrete electronics would be most probably not reachable. It was 20 years ago and today we're here were we are.

I am sure this will be new sensor. Even new microlenses make it a new sensor as it could be a crucial technology factor, which moves it forward.
flickr | youtube | 5D2, 50 F/1.4, 24-105 F/4 L IS, 300 F/4 L IS, x1.4 II

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2012, 06:39:23 PM »

RedEye

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2012, 07:50:41 PM »
I am puzzled over Canon's decision to release two full frame sensors with only 4MPs between them - with the lower rated one going into the flagship and not the 2nd tier camera.
As I see it there could be two very different reasons for that. One bad(ish) and one good(ish).

The bad(ish) option is that the 22MP sensor is not a new sensor at all, but the same sensor found in the 5DII. A technically feasible explanation for that could be that the current 5D sensor has some photosites blocked/disabled for whatever reason Canon decided to do so 4 years ago and now they simply enabled them back on. Another explanation could be that it is in fact the same sensor but with new gapless microlenses. I don't know enough of sensor tech to say whether this is economically or technically feasible in a way that would benefit Canon.

The good(ish) reason could be that as mentioned before, a 22MP sensor allows for a clean 3 x 3 downsample to
1920 x 1080 which would make sense since the 5D represents the pinnacle of DSLR video for Canon.



Agreed.  Hence why Canon will not be releasing a 22MP as they would give up too much market share.

Axilrod

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2012, 07:51:29 PM »
the 5D represents the pinnacle of DSLR video for Canon.

It may have turned out that way, but that wasn't Canon's plan and they weren't anticipating it.  It only makes sense to split up the lines, hence Canon Cinema EOS.  The Cinema DSLR is going to be the "pinnacle of DSLR video."  5DIII will have improved video, but no 4k or anything like that, it's a still camera after all.

5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

tt

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2012, 11:37:08 PM »
3x oversampling seems a murky ground in comparison to 2x or 4x oversampling.
Thats why news Of a 40MP sensor sounds interedting - it seems the next logical MP size.
Canon could hinder the video more this time and make sure another cinema model has better features.

The only upside at the moment I can see is that this model is being made to last presumably for 3 odd years on the market. (Unless Canon's moving to faster product cycles).
If it's 3 or so years it's features would need to be good enough now to age well over the years in face of competition.
Captive Canon market though...

Canon seems more secretive /less leak worthy than Apple and they are pretty darn secretive!

Would be interesting to know if there are any sites that actually tear down the sensors like for the iPhone's and do an analsis of the components in particular the sensor to see how different it is.
At least for off the shelf or bespoke components from other manufacturers there is some degree of information in the industry as to the component specification.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2012, 11:41:49 PM by tt »

Marsu42

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 03:09:18 AM »
Canon could hinder the video more this time and make sure another cinema model has better features.

So let's hope that at least they still don't protect their firmware effectively so add-ons like magic lantern are  possible with the 5d3, too.

The old 5D2 actually used one of the cheapest and least efficient sensors possible.

Watch out for your life whenever you'll meet a 5d2 user in the future :-)

... but on a more matter of fact level: Where does your information come from that the 5d2 sensor was mediocre to begin with and now is even more outdated? If this was the case, this would mean that by your standards the 18MP aps-c sensor is junk, too.

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Re: 5D3 - New Sensor
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2012, 03:09:18 AM »