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Author Topic: Is '22' the magic number?  (Read 4752 times)

traveller

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Is '22' the magic number?
« on: March 04, 2012, 03:23:45 PM »
Is anyone else betting that the new crop of APS-C DSLRs (pun noted) will feature a 22MP sensor? It would be in the ballpark for previous percentage resolution increases and is about the bare minimum that most people can notice.  It would also tie in nicely with the 5D MkIII's resolution for marketing purposes. 

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Is '22' the magic number?
« on: March 04, 2012, 03:23:45 PM »

marvinhello

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2012, 04:06:06 PM »
a slight increase to 22mp is intended for EOS-Movie, horizontal pixels 5760 is exactly 3 times of 1920, this indicates that 5D Mark III will do a full-sensor readout and 3x3 pixel bining to produce clean, sharp and almost-no-moire HD video.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2012, 04:08:13 PM »
Is anyone else betting that the new crop of APS-C DSLRs (pun noted) will feature a 22MP sensor? It would be in the ballpark for previous percentage resolution increases and is about the bare minimum that most people can notice.  It would also tie in nicely with the 5D MkIII's resolution for marketing purposes.

If they want to give them the same quality movie mode then my guess is yes.
but they might be willing to stick with 1dx quality movies (well with more noise of course due to a smaller sensor)

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2012, 10:13:03 PM »
Is anyone else betting that the new crop of APS-C DSLRs (pun noted) will feature a 22MP sensor? It would be in the ballpark for previous percentage resolution increases and is about the bare minimum that most people can notice.  It would also tie in nicely with the 5D MkIII's resolution for marketing purposes.

If they want to give them the same quality movie mode then my guess is yes.
but they might be willing to stick with 1dx quality movies (well with more noise of course due to a smaller sensor)

You are likely right about the video, but those who hsave tried video with it say its not a huge improvement.  You might try Vincent Laforet's blog for some insite to what he thinks.  He is a Canon Ambassador, but he is not bubbling over with enthusiasm over it.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2012, 11:00:33 PM »
Is anyone else betting that the new crop of APS-C DSLRs (pun noted) will feature a 22MP sensor? It would be in the ballpark for previous percentage resolution increases and is about the bare minimum that most people can notice.  It would also tie in nicely with the 5D MkIII's resolution for marketing purposes.

If they want to give them the same quality movie mode then my guess is yes.
but they might be willing to stick with 1dx quality movies (well with more noise of course due to a smaller sensor)

You are likely right about the video, but those who hsave tried video with it say its not a huge improvement.  You might try Vincent Laforet's blog for some insite to what he thinks.  He is a Canon Ambassador, but he is not bubbling over with enthusiasm over it.

I will have a look. OTOH many of the video bloggers seemed to downplay the aliasing/moire a lot more than I thought warranted. Some of it probably depends upon what you shoot and whether you are used to trying to shoot whatever you want to shoot or are used to being a movie guy who sets things up so they can be shot. Anyway I'm hoping that I will find the difference to be more striking that some of the bloggers. I wonder what Phillip Bloom will say about it since he did seem to be hoping a lot for less moire/aliasing.

EDIT: OK, well he (Vincent Laforet) hasn't actually even used it and has only seen some re-compressed video samples. It is a little odd that the 5D2 ISO was world breaking stuff for video but now a mention of 2 stops better is suddenly meh (perhaps he suspect it to be mostly marketing talk and not a real 2 stops and this is his a polite way to write it off, who knows). I think he has is also thinking about things from a larger budget scale these days. And he shot only set pieces and it wasn't like he had to shoot some tree with fine bracnhes and leaves turning into horrible moire as someone shooting nature stuff might. It is true that they didn't even put in basic stuff like zebra stripes whch is just silly. Again, that is what happens when the company is too big and has different divisions and loves internal segmentation protection.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2012, 11:07:06 PM by LetTheRightLensIn »

ippikiokami

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 11:58:50 PM »
Laforet is comparing it to his C300 which is 15,000$

x-vision

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 12:27:03 AM »
Is anyone else betting that the new crop of APS-C DSLRs (pun noted) will feature a 22MP sensor? It would be in the ballpark for previous percentage resolution increases and is about the bare minimum that most people can notice.  It would also tie in nicely with the 5D MkIII's resolution for marketing purposes.

If they want to give them the same quality movie mode then my guess is yes.
but they might be willing to stick with 1dx quality movies (well with more noise of course due to a smaller sensor)

My thoughts exactly. Can't say what is more likely, though.

If the next generation crop cameras share parts of their hardware & firmware with the 5DIII, it's likely that they'll also get 22mp.
It would have been easier for Canon to develop them together - but this might not have been a priority for Canon.



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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 12:27:03 AM »

SiliconVoid

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2012, 01:54:25 AM »
The new 22mp count was primarily the result of a redesign of the sensor, based on the "gapless" photosite grid used in the cropped sensors since the 50D. The slightly higher count has also provided some benefits in scaling, compression, and transcoding - at least the way Canon explains it in their technical documents that is.
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traveller

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Re: Is '22' the magic number?
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2012, 04:04:07 AM »
I think he [Vincent Laforet] has [sic] is also thinking about things from a larger budget scale these days.

I think that one line sums it up nicely!

traveller

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Why 22MP?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2012, 09:16:00 AM »
I'm wondering why Canon chose a 22MP sensor for the 5D MkIII; there was talk of 22MP being a 'magic number' for pixel binning to 1080p video, but I haven't seen any evidence of this in Canon's specifications for the camera? Have I missed it, is it absent or are they planning to implement it in a firmware upgrade?

If there was no intention of pixel binning to acheive 1080p video, why did Canon choose 22MP for the 5D MkIII's sensor? Surely they should have either used the 18MP sensor from the 1D X, or if they wanted to protect 1D X sales, gone for a slightly higher number for marketing reason if nothing else.  I can't help thinking that 24MP or 25MP would have sounded a lot better from a marketing standpoint (even if unnoticable).   

Macadameane

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2012, 09:20:03 AM »
I would venture to guess that most people don't know what pixel binning is, so canon just markets it as better video.

So far, video does seem to resolve more.  There is also less moire.  These things to me mean that pixel binning is occurring.  They are definitely not line skipping the same way the mk II was.

PhilDrinkwater

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2012, 09:41:01 AM »
From Chuck Westfield
"I’m curious about the move up to 22.3 mp – it isn’t that much of a move from 21.9… so why change at all?
CW: There were several considerations, but the biggest one had to do with the substantial improvement of video quality along with overall image quality."


http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/03/questions-answered-for-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-hdmi-video/

traveller

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 10:05:54 AM »
From Chuck Westfield
"I’m curious about the move up to 22.3 mp – it isn’t that much of a move from 21.9… so why change at all?
CW: There were several considerations, but the biggest one had to do with the substantial improvement of video quality along with overall image quality."


http://blog.planet5d.com/2012/03/questions-answered-for-the-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-hdmi-video/


Maybe Macadameane and youself are correct: Canon is using pixel binning? If they are, then why aren't the shouting from the rooftops about it, Nokia is with their 41MP mobile 'phone camera sensor...

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 10:05:54 AM »

moreorless

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2012, 10:29:15 AM »
I would venture to guess that most people don't know what pixel binning is, so canon just markets it as better video.

I'd guess because they view mentioning pixel binning as a faux pa since it could damage perception of their other bodies that do it including the 1DX.

tt

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2012, 10:34:18 AM »
I would venture to guess that most people don't know what pixel binning is, so canon just markets it as better video.

I'd guess because they view mentioning pixel binning as a faux pa since it could damage perception of their other bodies that do it including the 1DX.
There was also a thread about whether it was true 1080p or upres of a lower resolution. Iggy not want to crow too much about it if that's the case.
That and bring attention to having crippled HDMI out.

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Re: Why 22MP?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2012, 10:34:18 AM »